poll 2.0 you still trading KP for Simmons?

[Thukydides]

I mean, they could always revisit the couple trades that were already good compensation for Simmons.

Like which?

[omahen]

If I´m a GM of a team interested in him, I just tell the Sixers: "take my offer or let this go into the season or deep into the playoffs" Only if one other team is desperate, this could resolve itself. I´m curious: if you think Mccollum would be a good get for the Sixers, would you take him for KP straight up too?

I think you are undervaluing the numbers. Philly would be negotiating with many teams and some definitely desperate. Just for example Sacramento and Minnesota. Philly can push both - "if you don't add this and that we will trade him to the other team. Than factor in many other teams desperate to move up after years in hell.

As for McCullom. He is older but less injury prone, so I would think it is reasonably fair trade. Problem would be that straight up trade leaves a big hole at center position.  If it is McCullom and Nurkic for lets say KP and Brunson, I think it could be something that makes sense. I think Portland would have a hard time explaining to Lillard how KP (perceived as very bad contract around the league) justifies trading his best friend, although he might be a better fit for Lillard.

[Mavs2021]

Five votes for No? 

[Thukydides]

I think you are undervaluing the numbers. Philly would be negotiating with many teams and some definitely desperate. Just for example Sacramento and Minnesota. Philly can push both - "if you don't add this and that we will trade him to the other team. Than factor in many other teams desperate to move up after years in hell.

As for McCullom. He is older but less injury prone, so I would think it is reasonably fair trade. Problem would be that straight up trade leaves a big hole at center position.  If it is McCullom and Nurkic for lets say KP and Brunson, I think it could be something that makes sense. I think Portland would have a hard time explaining to Lillard how KP (perceived as very bad contract around the league) justifies trading his best friend, although he might be a better fit for Lillard.

I love our debate and I absolutely can´t wait what the Simmons trade package will look like eventually. I just don´t think the Kings and Wolves are as dumb as the have acted before :-)

No way I trade Brunson and KP for Mccollum and Nurkic. That would be another interesting poll though

[Thukydides]

Five votes for No? 

No you just have to explain, if five is too little or too many for you

[ItsGoTime]

Like which?

I know there was an Ind and Tor offer at least in the news around the draft timeframe. I think the Ind trade was reported as Brogdon and a first for Simmons that was declined by Phi. Can’t remember the Tor one.

[SleepingHero]

Simmons won´t report to camp and has another 4 years on his contract. How are the Sixers in a good position here? They totally messed this up.

They aren't.

But it's not like other teams are going to get a steal here. Simmons wants to be in 4, maybe 5 places, and if you're not one of them there's a good chance Simmons plays his way out of the team there too. 

The Lakers and Clippers have no real assets here so they should be out of the running. That leaves GSW which does have Draymond but I'd be shocked if they traded him given he's the heart of the team. 

I don't see the 76ers really wanting Draymond either as he doesn't fix their issues. That leaves Sacramento and Minny. Both work. Neither want to pay the farm Morey is looking for. 

Something's gotta give.

[Thukydides]

But it's not like other teams are going to get a steal here. Simmons wants to be in 4, maybe 5 places, and if you're not one of them there's a good chance Simmons plays his way out of the team there too. 

Aren´t you contradicting yourself? The less teams Simmons is interested, the less negotiating leverage the Sixers have, so obviously the few teams will get a great deal.

---

I know there was an Ind and Tor offer at least in the news around the draft timeframe. I think the Ind trade was reported as Brogdon and a first for Simmons that was declined by Phi. Can’t remember the Tor one.

You´re right. If the Sixers  truely declined that Indiana offer, they certainly must be insane. Brogdon + 1st would be very good for them IMO. I don´t think that is on the table and doubt that it ever has been.

[dynamicalVoid]

Based on the past performances of both players and how playoff basketball is played...which player can contribute the most at Max money in the post season?

Is Simmons so bad offensively that he would be benched in playoffs at 30M+?  Would Simmons work effectively/efficiently with Luka playing off ball as a shooter(Simmons and Luka going back and forth as PG) and letting Simmons run point?  Would it work in the playoffs?

Really frustrating as a Mavs fan that we are so desperate for talent that we ponder acquiring a Max money player that is proven to be a playoff liability.  You have the greatest offensive player ever who is going to carry you to the playoffs year after year in Luka...and you want to burn the books and hurt your C-ship chances significantly by signing a player that will put you in a 4 vs 5 situation when it matters.

Im out on Simmons.

If Simmons is playing 4D chess and he has purposely refused to shoot in the hopes of pissing off Philly so they will trade him...and he goes to a new team and kills it(better be a Cali team or he going to cause problems until he gets to Cali)...more power to Simmons and Im happy for his new team.  But Im out on the Mavs acquiring him.

You are hoping Simmons matures on your watch.   He has wasted 6 years of being able to sharpen his skills.   He doesnt care.  30m+ for a non-Mamba mentality player.

KP all day with injury concerns and I dont think his PnR defense liabilty hurts a team as much as 4 vs 5 does.

[Jommybone]

Love Ben Simmons. Hate Rich Paul. But I would hold my nose and do the deal.

[Dahlsim]

Aren´t you contradicting yourself? The less teams Simmons is interested, the less negotiating leverage the Sixers have, so obviously the few teams will get a great deal.

---

You´re right. If the Sixers  truely declined that Indiana offer, they certainly must be insane. Brogdon + 1st would be very good for them IMO. I don´t think that is on the table and doubt that it ever has been.

Latest from Simmons camp via Chris Broussard is that Simmons will accept a trade to any of the teams in the NBA, just not playing in Philly. 

Brogdon has been consistently injury prone, missing games every year.  Simmons went from RoY to 3x NBA All star, an All NBA, All NBA Defensive and generally considered the 2nd or 1st best defensive player in the league.  He just turned 25. 
Brogdon is a good player, not really on the level of Ben Simmons except that Simmons just had an epic value playoff run and a down year in general (still an All Star). 

Morey's best play is let Simmons hold out as long as he must.  Its called honoring the contract. Four years is too long for Rich Paul and Klutch to play that game.  Ben Simmons will recover his value at some point and other NBA teams will be desperate for a difference maker, probably later this year. 

KP kind of similarly needs to play and recover his value before Dallas can really leverage him in trade talks but if he did manage to have a good run, the Mavs could get into talks for Simmons, especially 3-way near the TDL.

[SleepingHero]

Aren´t you contradicting yourself? The less teams Simmons is interested, the less negotiating leverage the Sixers have, so obviously the few teams will get a great deal.

In a way yes. This isn't a black and white situation though. 

If it was simple then yes, less teams=less chance at a good deal for Philly. But it's not. And there is a very realistic chance that Simmons just holds out and forces himself to go to the place where he wants to go. No team wants to invest whatever it'll cost to get him if Simmons just continues what he's doing. Player empowerment has muddled all trades involving all-stars. 

Morey's best play is let Simmons hold out as long as he must.  Its called honoring the contract. Four years is too long for Rich Paul and Klutch to play that game.  Ben Simmons will recover his value at some point and other NBA teams will be desperate for a difference maker, probably later this year. 

I agree that Philly's best play is to just wait. I'm pretty sure Simmons doesn't get paid if he voluntarily holds himself out of games. Can't see him accepting that for long. But it's a balancing act. Nothing is stopping Simmons from reporting and just playing like absolute shit, which will further drive down his value. 

I'm glad I don't have to figure this one out.

[sterlingmallory]

I would rather dump KP for nothing than take on Simmons and his contract. I'll pass on a guy that doesn't care enough about basketball to try to improve his game since his rookie year. His coaches and teammates have been begging him to shoot for years but he has refused to even try. It shows a complete lack of respect for them that he won't even attempt a 3. It's so bad that Embiid of all people tries to shoot sometimes to help space the floor. It's absurd. All the talent in the world doesn't mean anything if he isn't committed to put the work in. He cares more about being famous and dating Kardashians than improving his game, that's not going to change just because he's on a different team.

Here's what's going to happen: some team is going to be tantalized by his talent and think they can fix him, they'll gut their team to trade for him, and then lose in the first round at best as gets paid 40 million dollars to sit on the bench in crunch time. Hard pass.

[dynamicalVoid]

I would rather dump KP for nothing than take on Simmons and his contract. I'll pass on a guy that doesn't care enough about basketball to try to improve his game since his rookie year. His coaches and teammates have been begging him to shoot for years but he has refused to even try. It shows a complete lack of respect for them that he won't even attempt a 3. It's so bad that Embiid of all people tries to shoot sometimes to help space the floor. It's absurd. All the talent in the world doesn't mean anything if he isn't committed to put the work in. He cares more about being famous and dating Kardashians than improving his game, that's not going to change just because he's on a different team.

Here's what's going to happen: some team is going to be tantalized by his talent and think they can fix him, they'll gut their team to trade for him, and then lose in the first round at best as gets paid 40 million dollars to sit on the bench in crunch time. Hard pass.

I just want to clarify that I am aware that there are people on this board claiming KP has added nothing to his game since being in the league.  I know that he has been injured a lot and couldnt put the time in because of the injuries.

I only added the above because I am arguing the same thing as you, Malory.  I wanted to get out ahead of the folks that are going to counter with "Kp hasnt added a thing to his bag either".

I still take KP in playoff basketball over Simmons based on the past.

[Dahlsim]

In a way yes. This isn't a black and white situation though. 

If it was simple then yes, less teams=less chance at a good deal for Philly. But it's not. And there is a very realistic chance that Simmons just holds out and forces himself to go to the place where he wants to go. No team wants to invest whatever it'll cost to get him if Simmons just continues what he's doing. Player empowerment has muddled all trades involving all-stars. 




I agree that Philly's best play is to just wait. I'm pretty sure Simmons doesn't get paid if he voluntarily holds himself out of games. Can't see him accepting that for long. But it's a balancing act. Nothing is stopping Simmons from reporting and just playing like absolute shit, which will further drive down his value. 

I'm glad I don't have to figure this one out.

Yes it could get entertaining in a disgusting sort of way if he actually goes to the floor and deliberately plays poorly.  His contract as a drafted player with his originally drafted team was given the Max treatment on the assumption by the league that players wanting the Max contract would fundamentally at least honor the contract.  In a bad situation their agents would normally work behind the scenes.  I guess that was the old days?  

Players with a year or so left on their contract started blowing off the agreement to get where they want to be the way high profile Klutch guy Anthony Davis did to get a ring with his Klutch buddy Lebron.  

Now another guy Klutch guy but this time with 4 years on his deal could walk on the court to collect paychecks without actually competing for the team?  Coach Rivers would be forced to sit him while the teams pays him I guess.   I don't think his value would sink much for some teams because they know his talent to play basketball.  At some point though, you might think a players talents gets weighed against being a low character human being.  Probably not though. 
Seems bad for the NBA.

[Mavs2021]

Based on the past performances of both players and how playoff basketball is played...which player can contribute the most at Max money in the post season?

Is Simmons so bad offensively that he would be benched in playoffs at 30M+?  Would Simmons work effectively/efficiently with Luka playing off ball as a shooter(Simmons and Luka going back and forth as PG) and letting Simmons run point?  Would it work in the playoffs?

Really frustrating as a Mavs fan that we are so desperate for talent that we ponder acquiring a Max money player that is proven to be a playoff liability.  You have the greatest offensive player ever who is going to carry you to the playoffs year after year in Luka...and you want to burn the books and hurt your C-ship chances significantly by signing a player that will put you in a 4 vs 5 situation when it matters.

Im out on Simmons.

If Simmons is playing 4D chess and he has purposely refused to shoot in the hopes of pissing off Philly so they will trade him...and he goes to a new team and kills it(better be a Cali team or he going to cause problems until he gets to Cali)...more power to Simmons and Im happy for his new team.  But Im out on the Mavs acquiring him.

You are hoping Simmons matures on your watch.   He has wasted 6 years of being able to sharpen his skills.   He doesnt care.  30m+ for a non-Mamba mentality player.

KP all day with injury concerns and I dont think his PnR defense liabilty hurts a team as much as 4 vs 5 does.

Sixers 122.6 offensive rating with Simmons, 102.0 offensive rating without Simmons in the play-offs.

[ClutchDirk]

Simmons would equal gifting the other team double teaming opportunities on Luka and easy rotations to cover the other shooters...

I would feel more comfortable giving Powell the last second 3 instead of Simmons who would dump it to a player who has no chance of making a decent shot in time...

[Aussiebballer]

Probably ends up as a 3-4 team trade with Simmons going to a team for picks and young players.
Those asset get sent to a another who send currently good players to Philli.
Ie Simmons to GSW for some combo of Wiggins, Wiseman, Kuminga or Moody.
Those go to Raptors, who send Siakham to Philli. Maybe VanVleet as well depending on what Raptors get back.

[dynamicalVoid]

Sixers 122.6 offensive rating with Simmons, 102.0 offensive rating without Simmons in the play-offs.

Sixers should keep him then

but want to dump him

[embellisher]

Your attitude would be bad too if your coach and franchise player threw you under the bus. Attitudes can be corrected and adjusted in the right environment.  I think Simmons would be perfect for Dallas as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker to take some pressure off Luka. Plus, he's a elite defender and can cause havoc on the perimeter and passing lanes. Did I mention he's a good rebounder as well?

Did I mention he's a terrible shooter as well? 

He cannot play off the ball. He has no shot and no inside game. It will be 4 on 5 offensively every time he's on the floor.