poll 2.0 you still trading KP for Simmons?

[Thukydides]

https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?tid=1050

After this thread I wanted to come back here with the recent developments around Ben Simmons and ask you the same question again. Would be nice to know your thought process, if your answer has changed to 2-3 months ago.

[omahen]

I still would, Philly still wouldn't

[KillerLeft]

Without even the slightest hesitation.

[Hypermav]

Straight up?  Is that even a real choice?

Sure.

Simmons has more value to flip for something better imo.  Luka and Ben FT's would drive us crazy.

The Morey likely scenario of KP plus all remaining assets for Ben is a no.

[Thukydides]

Man, you guys´ conviction is skyhigh. :-) I´m 99.9% sure that the MBT wouldn´t do the deal rn and I absolutely think they are right. Can´t wait for monitoring those two in the next years.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

It's a wash basically. Simmons refuses to shoot, but is far better defensively and has more skills as a playmaker.  KP obviously is the better offensive player when he's right.  I think Dallas gives KP one more shot to see if he can regain his confidence under Kidd, if not all bets are off.

[SleepingHero]

Simmons is the better player. I think he'd be a perfect fit on paper.

After seeing how this summer unfolded and how Simmons has his sights set on glitz and glamour while KP has been in the gym the entire offseason I absolutely would not make the trade. 

Attitudes matter and Simmons has a bad one. Hard to overcome that unless you're a super duper star.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Simmons is the better player. I think he'd be a perfect fit on paper.

After seeing how this summer unfolded and how Simmons has his sights set on glitz and glamour while KP has been in the gym the entire offseason I absolutely would not make the trade. 

Attitudes matter and Simmons has a bad one. Hard to overcome that unless you're a super duper star.

Your attitude would be bad too if your coach and franchise player threw you under the bus. Attitudes can be corrected and adjusted in the right environment.  I think Simmons would be perfect for Dallas as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker to take some pressure off Luka. Plus, he's a elite defender and can cause havoc on the perimeter and passing lanes. Did I mention he's a good rebounder as well?

[Thukydides]

Your attitude would be bad too if your coach and franchise player threw you under the bus. Attitudes can be corrected and adjusted in the right environment.  I think Simmons would be perfect for Dallas as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker to take some pressure off Luka. Plus, he's a elite defender and can cause havoc on the perimeter and passing lanes. Did I mention he's a good rebounder as well?

Agree with the attitude part, but Simmons is absolutely atrocious as a playmaker in halfcourt. He´s very good with a spread floor in transition, but that´s it.

[dirkfansince1998]

glitz and glamour while KP has been in the gym the entire offseason I absolutely would not make the trade. 

That´s just a random guess. Posting a workout video or some pictures doesn´t mean that a player is working harder or more. Simmons has some prefered destinations but if we go back to the KP trade the same was mentioned in his case. He wanted out of NY and had a list of 3-5 teams that he wanted to join. If I remember it correctly Dallas wasn´t among them.

If you are out on Simmons because of his attitude I could easily make the case that KPs was just as bad or even worse. Even more off court drama. With highlights like rape allegations and bar fights.
Not to mention the Mavs related stuff. We spent an entire season with endless discussions about KPs passive agressive comments and his relationship with Luka and the team.

[DallasMaverick]

Good offensive players get paid better than good defensive players.  By that measure alone, KP should win.

But factor in availability, and perhaps you could make a case for Simmons.

But factor in coachability, and I'm swung back to Porzingis.

[SleepingHero]

Your attitude would be bad too if your coach and franchise player threw you under the bus. Attitudes can be corrected and adjusted in the right environment.  I think Simmons would be perfect for Dallas as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker to take some pressure off Luka. Plus, he's a elite defender and can cause havoc on the perimeter and passing lanes. Did I mention he's a good rebounder as well?

You have a point. But I suppose this is a case of which came first: the chicken or the egg?

Is Simmons attitude atrocious because of the unprofessional environment cultivated by the 76ers? Or are 76ers simply reacting to Simmon's attitude and have had enough of him being around the team?

The line is so blurry here it's hard to definitively call it. One thing going against Simmons is his absolute refusal to develop any sort of half-court offensive game. It doesn't take 6 years to learn how to shoot. If he really wanted to, he would have done it by now. And if shooting really isn't his forte, why would he not try to develop a post game? He has the footwork, the speed, the balance. All important attributes. His size and speed would make him a mismatch nightmare. Unfortunately that is also DOA. Further, all the supposed rumors of Ben wanting to go to a team in California because "he's a young socialite" just piles on that he's immature and basketball comes 2nd to him. 

Though, 76ers and their fanbase aren't known to coddle either. I wouldn't put it past them to piss Simmons off so much that he isn't motivated at all to work on his game.

It's obvious that Simmons would be the ideal 2nd/3rd star next to Luka. He does absolutely everything we've been clamoring for and more. But it's apparent to me that Simmons isn't going to improve as a shooter any time soon. The Mavs need to add him ALONG Porzingis (or another star that can shoot) for it to actually work.

[Thukydides]

I think it´s interesting that for none of you the fact that the Sixers have absolutely no negotiating leverage is a factor. This was my main reason to put up another poll.

[SleepingHero]

That´s just a random guess. Posting a workout video or some pictures doesn´t mean that a player is working harder or more. Simmons has some prefered destinations but if we go back to the KP trade the same was mentioned in his case. He wanted out of NY and had a list of 3-5 teams that he wanted to join. If I remember it correctly Dallas wasn´t among them.

If you are out on Simmons because of his attitude I could easily make the case that KPs was just as bad or even worse. Even more off court drama. With highlights like rape allegations and bar fights.
Not to mention the Mavs related stuff. We spent an entire season with endless discussions about KPs passive agressive comments and his relationship with Luka and the team.

I'm just going off of what's been shown publicly. You're right that it's a random guess and I could be totally wrong. KP could just be going to the gym for 5 minutes, snapping a pic, and subsequently heading to a bar, while Simmons has been in the gym 6 hours a day working on his weaknesses. 

Basing how much Simmons has improved, or lack thereof, I don't think this would be the summer summer he'll magically change his mind. As an aside, not that KP has much to offer here either. He improved considerably after his first 2 years when he was healthy but has stagnated since. Is that because of injuries/rehab or he isn't motivated? 

In any case, KP's rape allegation was immediately proved to be a false one and that the FBI instead investigated her for extortion. No charges were ever brought and KP never even made a settlement.  I don't see how we could hold that against KP and use it to show he's full of drama. To me he's the victim there. 
The bar fight is another story. KP claims that he was attacked and was merely defending himself. To me it doesn't really matter and that he shouldn't have put himself in that position anyways so you have a legit point there. 

KP was never at the level of drama of Simmons. Besides skipping out on exit interviews with Phil because he wanted to trade him, KP has shown he's been extremely coachable. 

I'm not arguing that KP is the better player/fit. Simmons is by far and away the better guy next to Luka and on paper would make the Mavs MUCH better based on what he brings. But we've seen countless times what might look good on paper doesn't necessarily mean it'll work on the court. I'm wary of Ben and how he'd feel being relegated even further on offense becoming a secondary creator. That fear is further amplified because he preferers to be in glamour place like LA/San Fran/Miami.

[omahen]

I think it´s interesting that for none of you the fact that the Sixers have absolutely no negotiating leverage is a factor. This was my main reason to put up another poll.

I don't think that is the case. Sixers have a solid position, imho. There are many teams looking for Simmons services and if Sixers move away from Lillard/Beal "dreams", they will have plenty of suitors competing with each other. I doubt KP is something that would be interesting for Sixers based on their needs. They should be looking for PG and guard/wing shooters. 

McCullom is certainly an interesting player for them, but I think Sixers would want more. McCullom is older and imho less valuable. Problem - Portland locked all their picks with the Nance trade and they don't really have so much interesting youngsters. Can they convince Sacramento for Haliburton/Hield or Fox? Minnesota with Russel and (a lot of) other stuff. San Antonio has a bunch of interesting young guards. Even Love + Sexton plus a bunch of stuff could be interesting.

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Good offensive players get paid better than good defensive players.  By that measure alone, KP should win.

That is true. But Simmons is like top5 in defense and KP is like top50 in offense, if we are very generous and forget the playoff fiasco.

[Thukydides]

Simmons won´t report to camp and has another 4 years on his contract. How are the Sixers in a good position here? They totally messed this up.

[omahen]

Simmons won´t report to camp and has another 4 years on his contract. How are the Sixers in a good position here? They totally messed this up.

I mean it is clear they have to trade him. In that regard that is clear, there is likely no way back. But I don't think they will be forced to sell him for a bag of peanuts because there will be many teams competing. I think they will still get a good haul for him. Probably not superstar level, but still very valuable win now players.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Agree with the attitude part, but Simmons is absolutely atrocious as a playmaker in halfcourt. He´s very good with a spread floor in transition, but that´s it.

Fair enough. Still think he would help them, especially on the defensive end. I'd take the risk.

[Thukydides]

I mean it is clear they have to trade him. In that regard that is clear, there is likely no way back. But I don't think they will be forced to sell him for a bag of peanuts because there will be many teams competing. I think they will still get a good haul for him. Probably not superstar level, but still very valuable win now players.

If I´m a GM of a team interested in him, I just tell the Sixers: "take my offer or let this go into the season or deep into the playoffs" Only if one other team is desperate, this could resolve itself. I´m curious: if you think Mccollum would be a good get for the Sixers, would you take him for KP straight up too?

[ItsGoTime]

I mean, they could always revisit the couple trades that were already good compensation for Simmons.