poll 2.0 you still trading KP for Simmons?

[KillerLeft]

It will be 4 on 5 offensively every time he's on the floor.

...if he's used as a floor spacer, sure. Why would he have to be played like that here? Here, there's no Embiid in the paint with the ball. 

Simmons has some warts to his game FOR SURE, but I think people are blaming him for problems that are basically the result of having two star players who don't in any way complement each other. It has been obvious for years that they're a poor fit (on AND off the court, btw) but until very recently, it wasn't so clear which one they should choose, moving forward. Embiid has definitely turned a corner over the past couple of seasons, but that shouldn't mean that everyone is super down on Simmons. He's still Ben Simmons.

[dynamicalVoid]

Your attitude would be bad too if your coach and franchise player threw you under the bus. Attitudes can be corrected and adjusted in the right environment.  I think Simmons would be perfect for Dallas as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker to take some pressure off Luka. Plus, he's a elite defender and can cause havoc on the perimeter and passing lanes. Did I mention he's a good rebounder as well?

Can I ask what your game plan would be to get Simmons more active shooting/scoring/shooting 3's?

Seems like the kid has been asked for 6 years from fans, media and the Philly organization to incorporate shooting into his skillset.  He is 6 years behind now.

Everyone is acting like throwing the kid under the bus is some absolute "you cant go there" with an employee.   What else is there to do?   Nothing else was working.   So keeping things behind closed doors and just trading him away is the "right" move?

People can argue that Doc and Joel hurt Simmons trade value which hurt Philly...that you just cant throw your employee/player/teammate under the bus...blah blah blah.  After 6 years it was time to be unconventional with Simmons.

Doc, Joel, the media....all did Simmons and his future team a favor by letting him know how important it is for him to incorporate shooting into his skillset.  Passing too much can hurt your game.

Now...Simmons grows from this.   Or...the league knows who he is and what his true ceiling is and he wont get another Max contract.

The kid has so much damn potential...throwing him under the bus is a minor event if it squeezes Simmons true potential out of him.

[ClutchDirk]

...if he's used as a floor spacer, sure. Why would he have to be played like that here? Here, there's no Embiid in the paint with the ball. 

No more Luka working an empty paint area due to Simmmons either...

[dirkfansince1998]

No more Luka working an empty paint area due to Simmmons either...

So no WCS, Brown, Boban, Powell either. If the Mavs want to play 5-out they messed up the roster construction.

[Mapka]

So no WCS, Brown, Boban, Powell either. If the Mavs want to play 5-out they messed up the roster construction.

There is a difference between pick&roll-players and non-shooting, non-dunking, non-driving players.

At least in the halfcourt.

[soog]

Only way I do it is if Simmons is willing to play PF in a spread offense.

On offense, I want him doing the pick-and-roll with Luka and cutting hard to the basket in a Powell like role.  I want him putting the ball on the floor and making back cuts to expose opposing PFs. I want him playing old-school, Donnie-style, Antoine Walker-like point-forward and bringing the ball up at times to give Luka a break and force the opposing PF to come out and guard him.  I don’t want him trying to play primary PG or off the ball guard where his poor shooting is put fully on display.

I want him switching with Luka on D, so he defends opposing team’s PGs while Luka marks the opposing team’s PF.

I think he would really excel in a role like this.

In the end I don’t think he would accept that role, so even if Philly would agree to it, I wouldn’t do it.

[SkenfromLMF]

As for Dallas there is but 1 question: Is Ben Simmons more talented than the rest of the roster (sans Luka)? IF the question is yes, you make the trade and put him in the best situation to be successful offensively. I don't know that I mind 14-20 mpg of Ben Simmons trying to be Ben Simmons we all know and loathe when Luka sits. At this point he has to understand fit with Luka for other 28-30 mpg. In the Clipper series Ben Simmons would have made the difference because it would have forced a Kawhi or PG13 to do the fouling everyone is so scared of seeing, and Dallas would have had another "Beverly is too small" ball handler to keep him out of the way.

I want Simmons here to see what the Dirk effect might be on him - Kidd himself improved his shooting in Dallas (2nd time) and when he was a young player here people cringed when he shot from outside. The best improvement would come from the FT line and mid-range.

I don't think KP and a boatload of picks are the right price, but somewhere in the middle the answer is yes.

[dynamicalVoid]

Only way I do it is if Simmons is willing to play PF in a spread offense.

On offense, I want him doing the pick-and-roll with Luka and cutting hard to the basket in a Powell like role.  I want him putting the ball on the floor and making back cuts to expose opposing PFs. I want him playing old-school, Donnie-style, Antoine Walker-like point-forward and bringing the ball up at times to give Luka a break and force the opposing PF to come out and guard him.  I don’t want him trying to play primary PG or off the ball guard where his poor shooting is put fully on display.

I want him switching with Luka on D, so he defends opposing team’s PGs while Luka marks the opposing team’s PF.

I think he would really excel in a role like this.

In the end I don’t think he would accept that role, so even if Philly would agree to it, I wouldn’t do it.

And that should be the number one indicator on how mature Ben is.   Talks should immediately be abandoned if he is not willing to compromise on changing his play style.

The fans, media and Philly wanted him to shoot and he refuses leading to this situation.

Now...I have read many people suggest this PF role for him on here and many in threads on RealGM suggesting it.   So...It seems like it must be a decent suggestion on how Ben could resurrect himself while working on shooting.

If Ben is just outright refusing to change up his game a little...who would sign this guy?

I dont blame Ben for not having a Mamba mentality and wanting to coast on God given measurables and quickness to cash NBA size checks...if he has other interests its his life...but you cant keep paying this guy top dollar unless something changes on Ben's side of things.  Personally...I think he is completely capable of being a shooter/scorer...just want to see it happen on a different team than the Mavs.

[sterlingmallory]

And that should be the number one indicator on how mature Ben is.   Talks should immediately be abandoned if he is not willing to compromise on changing his play style.

The fans, media and Philly wanted him to shoot and he refuses leading to this situation.

Now...I have read many people suggest this PF role for him on here and many in threads on RealGM suggesting it.   So...It seems like it must be a decent suggestion on how Ben could resurrect himself while working on shooting.

If Ben is just outright refusing to change up his game a little...who would sign this guy?

I dont blame Ben for not having a Mamba mentality and wanting to coast on God given measurables and quickness to cash NBA size checks...if he has other interests its his life...but you cant keep paying this guy top dollar unless something changes on Ben's side of things.  Personally...I think he is completely capable of being a shooter/scorer...just want to see it happen on a different team than the Mavs.

Perfectly said. This is the point people seem to be missing. He has all the talent in the world but does not have the maturity or the drive to do anything great with it. And that's fine, like you said he's if he's happy with coasting by like that then more power to him. But if you're trying to build a team then you avoid those types of players like the plague, no matter how talented they are.

Mark my words. Wherever he goes, he will end up having the exact same problems only this time whatever team trades for him will have gutted their team trying to match his salary so they'll be even more screwed while he sits on the bench in crunch time.

The clock is ticking now that Luka signed his extension. We can't afford to waste it hoping that Simmons grows up and suddenly changes his mentality. It's not going to happen.

[Benskix2]

So we are totally satisfied with KPs maturity and drive?

[dynamicalVoid]

So we are totally satisfied with KPs maturity and drive?

Are you an insider?

[Mavs2021]

Are you an insider?

Well you sure act like you know Ben Simmons personally, cause you know all about his lack of drive, desire and work ethic.

Here is the On/Off for Philly´s play-off starters

Embiid +19.9
Simmons +19.5
Danny Green +17.1/Korkmaz +0.3
Curry +15.3
Harris -6.1

Bench

Thybulle -18
Milton -20
Howard -21
Maxey -6 (that bodes pretty well for the kid)

They build a 20 point lead in the time 35 minutes the starters play and blow it all in the just 13 minutes the bench plays.

So it´s pretty obvious that the problem is not Ben Simmons, but hey there is no story for ESPN, Bill Simmons and his Twitter mugs blaming Tobias Harris, their bench or Doc Rivers line-up choices, cause nobody would care.

[Mapka]

So it´s pretty obvious that the problem is not Ben Simmons, but hey there is no story for ESPN, Bill Simmons and his Twitter mugs blaming Tobias Harris, their bench or Doc Rivers line-up choices, cause nobody would care.

You kinda perfectly descriped why KP is our scapegoat. Somebody has to be, who´s making the most money? It just doesn´t fit on Philly, because if it would be like you say, Tobias would be it.
It´s just Tobias is hustling his ass off, while Ben is not even trying to step up.

You can talk what you want - it´s on Ben and Embid.

Short - if I would try to build a player with a aboatload of talent to not fit with Luka, it would be Ben Simmons.

[dynamicalVoid]

Well you sure act like you know Ben Simmons personally, cause you know all about his lack of drive, desire and work ethic.

Here is the On/Off for Philly´s play-off starters

Embiid +19.9
Simmons +19.5
Danny Green +17.1/Korkmaz +0.3
Curry +15.3
Harris -6.1

Bench

Thybulle -18
Milton -20
Howard -21
Maxey -6 (that bodes pretty well for the kid)

They build a 20 point lead in the time 35 minutes the starters play and blow it all in the just 13 minutes the bench plays.

So it´s pretty obvious that the problem is not Ben Simmons, but hey there is no story for ESPN, Bill Simmons and his Twitter mugs blaming Tobias Harris, their bench or Doc Rivers line-up choices, cause nobody would care.

Im just wondering why his teams city is through with him and why his coach and high profile teammate through him under the bus.  Because they are immature, emotional casuals, right?

You can move the goal post and claim its not Ben and blame line-ups or produce some stats that make casuals look lazy and uneducated...but I think Ben has flaws worth discussing.

How significant or insignificant is 4 vs 5 in playoffs?  Or does Ben not create that?  If he does create that...is that significantly more paralyzing than KP's PNR defense(or defense period)?  If Ben does not create 4 vs 5...how significant or insignificant is his half court offense, free throw shooting or lack of shooting period in a playoff series?  

I guess its all overblown and Ben is misunderstood and misrepresented.

I asked about being an insider because only insiders would know about KP's maturity and drive.   A bar fight and being a playboy dont equal immaturity, imo.   Unless I am missing a bunch of past dust ups KP has had...those two are what I see repeatedly used to paint KP's character in negative light.  I read people on here talk about KP being a pouty bitch in practice.   How do they know this and why is their employment with the Mavs such a secret?   Only insiders would know and I dont trust Mavs mouthpieces or beat writers if that is where someone is going to say they got their info.  So...the KP being immature thing doesnt resonate with me unless someone proves they are a Mavs employee.  Kp's lack of drive?  Maybe...kind of hard to tell when you have had bad luck with injuries.   Does he work on his game when able to?  I dont know...but how would anyone else know unless they are an insider?   Or is going home to Latvia considered lack of drive and immature for not being closer to the team in the offseason?  I will give you that at Max money and being injured often last few years...KP should do right by the Mavs and prove he is willing to work on his game by staying stateside or staying in Dallas and working with coaching staff.  At least take shorter trips to Latvia until he proves himself(if his trips to Latvia are even an issue within the Organization).  As well...Ben should prove he is willing to be coachable and improve his in game shooting volume instead of just "same ol' same ol'".

Look...Ben is extremely talented with crazy measurables and quickness and elite defense...but would his half court offense make things more difficult for our offensive minded Super Star to do work?  Are you saying that stats say he would not make things difficult for Luka?   The stats say teams will guard Simmons closely creating space even though he doesnt shoot and when he does is questionable at it?  

Whats worse...a high paid player that is a major injury concern...or a high paid player that most likely will have to be benched in the 4th quarter of playoff games?

[Kammrath]

https://deadspin.com/does-a-ben-simmons-...1847618920

[Thukydides]

https://deadspin.com/does-a-ben-simmons-...1847618920

This quote made me crack, not gonna lie. How can you know so little about basketball. "Next to Embiid, they’d have an elite defensive front-line."