NBA TRADE TALK: TDL over

[dirkfansince1998]

Let’s put all that aside. I am asking a simple question. Do the Mavs have a legit 2nd scoring option that we can run the offense through when Luka is out or on the bench?  Is that type of an offensive player easier to get or is it much more easier to get a more hard nosed defensive player?  

I am not at all disagreeing with you that it might not be the best fit or that it doesn’t move the needle much in terms of a title. What I am saying is all elite teams have two legit scoring options. All teams even lower ones crave more to get legit scoring options.  Get Sabonis in here if you can,  and see how it is working out. If it  is not working out, there will still be a lot of takers for his talent regardless of his defensive weaknesses.

The Mavs need another scoring option but the question isn´t as simple because your proposed offensive option is a defensive liablity. A random hard nosed defender won´t fix that. Would love to run football rotations but that´s not an option. And I don´t think that it would be as easy to move Sabonis if things aren´t working out in Dallas because that would mean that his defense was exposed once again. At some point that is going to hurt his value.

[burekemde]

I will never understand this boards obsession with bigs that cannot defend in space. Just hope that the Mavs learned from past mistakes. DAJ was a disaster. KP can be a liablity. Sabonis would be another disaster.

Its about winning this game of chess over your opponent. If you place Sabonis into the lineup, the only chance the opponent has defenisively is to play another big that also cant defend in space. Otherwise pick and roll with Luka and Sabonis, which would be the best in the league and far more dangerous than what we see with Powell and KP now, would be essentially two points each time.  Against Sabonis, I have only seen Zubac making some sort of effective resistance in the paint, and even he got destroyed. The opponents would absolutely need to change their lineups and play the real bigs that cant defend in space but that do protect the paint and the rim. Then in that scenario, we have the better of the big in the paint. And then we can also on offense switch that big to Luka. Sabonis can also even hit the three.

Its about adding unique skills. Its the type you simply cant match in a game of chess. KP and Powell and Maxi are limited, and can be matched. Luka, Sabonis, Brunson, have skills that you just cant deal with schemes. So unpredictable. We have seen our team taking a huge leap when Luka and Brunson are playing together. This is no coincidence. Adding Sabonis would provide an entire new dimension.

[dirkfansince1998]

Its about winning this game of chess over your opponent. If you place Sabonis into the lineup, the only chance the opponent has defenisively is to play another big that also cant defend in space. Otherwise pick and roll with Luka and Sabonis, which would be the best in the league and far more dangerous than what we see with Powell and KP now, would be essentially two points each time.  Against Sabonis, I have only seen Zubac making some sort of effective resistance in the paint, and even he got destroyed. The opponents would absolutely need to change their lineups and play the real bigs that cant defend in space but that do protect the paint and the rim. Then in that scenario, we have the better of the big in the paint. And then we can also on offense switch that big to Luka. Sabonis can also even hit the three.

Its about adding unique skills. Its the type you simply cant match in a game of chess. KP and Powell and Maxi are limited, and can be matched. Luka, Sabonis, Brunson, have skills that you just cant deal with schemes. So unpredictable. We have seen our team taking a huge leap when Luka and Brunson are playing together. This is no coincidence. Adding Sabonis would provide an entire new dimension.

Not sure if this is true. Actually think that smaller defenders are a bigger problem for Sabonis. He lacks some lateral quickness but has a solid first step and beats most traditional bigs to the rim. He is more of a face up big. Not the classic bruiser.
Going back to the summer I just cannot get over his play in performance and the olympic qualifier. Played of the floor against the Wizards. Locked down by Luka against Slovenia.

[hakeemfaan]

The Mavs need another scoring option but the question isn´t as simple because your proposed offensive option is a defensive liablity. A random hard nosed defender won´t fix that. Would love to run football rotations but that´s not an option. And I don´t think that it would be as easy to move Sabonis if things aren´t working out in Dallas because that would mean that his defense was exposed once again. At some point that is going to hurt his value.

Nothing is easy. Smart is playing on a talented team too but that team has failed to get over the hump too. Again this is not to disparage Smart. If we can move KP for Sabonis and THJ for Smart, count me in. 

I disagree with the characterization of random hard nosed defenders as you are probably describing the 10 day guys. These are guys who can play legit defense but their offensive liabilities have caused them to not find a spot in this league. 

In this day and age regardless of the defense you build around, you need elite offense as well. Especially in the playoffs where all defenses step up. I would certainly take a chance on Sabonis before Smart. Not because I don’t understand the liabilities that Sabonis brings or the intangibles that Smart brings. I am weighing both and I would go with Sabonis. You want to go the other way. I can perfectly understand your line of thought. There are no easily correct answers here.

[dirkfansince1998]

Nothing is easy. Smart is playing on a talented team too but that team has failed to get over the hump too. Again this is not to disparage Smart. If we can move KP for Sabonis and THJ for Smart, count me in. 

I disagree with the characterization of random hard nosed defenders as you are probably describing the 10 day guys. These are guys who can play legit defense but their offensive liabilities have caused them to not find a spot in this league. 

In this day and age regardless of the defense you build around, you need elite offense as well. Especially in the playoffs where all defenses step up. I would certainly take a chance on Sabonis before Smart. Not because I don’t understand the liabilities that Sabonis brings or the intangibles that Smart brings. I am weighing both and I would go with Sabonis. You want to go the other way. I can perfectly understand your line of thought. There are no easily correct answers here.

That is something that I can agree with. Just want to highlight that Sabonis comes with a bigger price tag. That´s why I am coming to a different conclusion.

[cow]

I don't understand the Pacers desire to trade Sabonis. They need to rebuild but they should rebuild around him a jettison everyone else.

Stevenson knew his role and could shoot threes.

32% versus 34% 3PT shooters so neither could be considered a knockdown shooter.

[aguiar95]

KP trade partners I could see are all on the West:

- SAC (KP/Moses for Hield/Holmes);

- SAS (KP/Green/Moses for White/Poeltl/McDermott);

- POR (KP/Green for CJ/Nurkic);

Not many teams interested. In the summer we'd be able to add our 1st after the draft, so it's more interesting, depending on the outcome of some of these franchises.

[omahen]

(2) NBA Central on Twitter: "The New Orleans Pelicans reportedly views CJ McCollum as the ‘ideal veteran scorer and leader’ to play alongside Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson, per @EricPincus https://t.co/AUhfhl0gxs" / Twitter

[Davemo]

KP trade partners I could see are all on the West:

- SAC (KP/Moses for Hield/Holmes);

- SAS (KP/Green/Moses for White/Poeltl/McDermott);

- POR (KP/Green for CJ/Nurkic);

Not many teams interested. In the summer we'd be able to add our 1st after the draft, so it's more interesting, depending on the outcome of some of these franchises.

I think we would be lucky to get any of these trades done.  Great ideas, though!

[mvossman]

KP trade partners I could see are all on the West:

- SAC (KP/Moses for Hield/Holmes);

- SAS (KP/Green/Moses for White/Poeltl/McDermott);

- POR (KP/Green for CJ/Nurkic);

Not many teams interested. In the summer we'd be able to add our 1st after the draft, so it's more interesting, depending on the outcome of some of these franchises.

If we are trading with SAC, I would rather have Barnes than Hield

I would be totally on board with KP for White/Poeltl.  Kind of doubt SA would do that, and I don't think Green moves the needle enough.

At this point I don't think I give up Green for a Nurkic rental.  I would give up Powell.  If we were doing this, would not mind expanding it to include Covington.

[omahen]

The Ringer mentions Brunson as ideal PG for them and adds they don't have assets to get him. Would you do for example:
LAC: THJ, Brunson
Dal: Kennard, Batum and one of their rookies (not really saw Clippers a lot, so no idea which of Preston, Johnson or Boston is better)

Dallas gets a cheaper and much more accurate version of THJ, PF they need and a young prospect. 

Why the Clippers Are the Trade Deadline’s Most Intriguing Sleeper - The Ringer

[Chicagojk]

I like CJ McCollum but that contract...ouch.   He is a smaller player and over 30.   I think Jalen gets 15-17 million this offseason.   CJ is making twice as much.   

I have real questions about KP long term value here, but I would not trade him for any of the packages I have seen from the Blazers.

[SatnamSingh]

My concern with Smart is whether his body will hold up through his new four year extension.  He's been a super physical player his whole career.

Otherwise I think he's a great fit.  We need his defense, toughness, leadership and that crazy guy factor.

[Chicagojk]

My concern with Smart is whether his body will hold up through his new four year extension.  He's been a super physical player his whole career.

Otherwise I think he's a great fit.  We need his defense, toughness, leadership and that crazy guy factor.

I have been thinking about Smart not as a piece to use in a Jalen trade, but could he be a final piece in a year or so.    Is a Luka, Jalen, Smart, DFS/bench, KP a finishing 5?   Is there enough shooting?   In that scenario, Luka is more of a PF on defense.    

Smart is a different player, but we ask him to play a little like Kidd did in his Mavericks return.   Not much a factor on offense, but a glue guy who provides toughness and basketball IQ.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

The Ringer mentions Brunson as ideal PG for them and adds they don't have assets to get him. Would you do for example:
LAC: THJ, Brunson
Dal: Kennard, Batum and one of their rookies (not really saw Clippers a lot, so no idea which of Preston, Johnson or Boston is better)

Dallas gets a cheaper and much more accurate version of THJ, PF they need and a young prospect. 

Why the Clippers Are the Trade Deadline’s Most Intriguing Sleeper - The Ringer

B.J. Boston has been the most impressive of their rookies.  And Amir Coffey has played well for them since he has been a starter, he's a 2nd or 3rd year player I believe.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...7799029765

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...7799029765

I would definitely take Schroeder if we took him into our TPE.  I am worried about wearing Luka and Jalen out with both starting.    It is tough to get either long rests.   If no Goran, I would be fine with schroeder.   Although Boston will probably look for any asset and the Mavs apparently are not big fans of Schroeder anyway.

[mvossman]

I would definitely take Schroeder if we took him into our TPE.  I am worried about wearing Luka and Jalen out with both starting.    It is tough to get either long rests.   If no Goran, I would be fine with schroeder.   Although Boston will probably look for any asset and the Mavs apparently are not big fans of Schroeder anyway.

It would make a lot of sense from a basketball standpoint, but that guy seems to where out his welcome wherever he goes.  Don't think the Mavs want to mess with him.

[Mavs2021]

I´d be worried about them trading Schroeder, cause the most reasonable trade I could come up with is Schroeder for Rose, which means Boston stays competitive and New York is close to the Brunson capspace.

Boston is not just going to give Schroeder away, so they can play Smart/Pritchard as their PG play-off rotation.

Their picks will be pretty worthless, too. With Tatum/Brown/Williams they are basically a 0.500 team as a floor, but if they can somehow sign Tatum´s best friend Bradley Beal, you are looking at 24 to 30 picks for the next five years.

Therefore any Brunson for Schroeder+pick deals are not very appealing either, especially if you help them clear out Horford or Smart,too.

[RedFlag41]

This is just a fantasy scenario I have been thinking. It will not probably happen but just want to know what you guys think.

How about a trade with Boston:

1. Boston gets Jalen Brunson and KP

Dallas gets Marcus Smart and Al Horford and 2FRPs.

Boston gets the PG they want in JB, and another All Star caliber (when healthy) player in KP. Also, they seem to be looking for an upgrade at the PG and Center positions. This gives them that.

They give up two FRPs because JB and KP are quality players that will help them win now.

They may run with the following line up:

Brunson, Brown, Tatum, KP, Williams.

2. Dallas then uses the 2 FRPs and package that with THJ (as salary balast) and JGreen and Moses Brown for Jerami Grant and scrubs for roster spot concerns.

Detroit gets THJ (veteran shooter, salary balast), JGreen (developing young player), MBrown (prospect/project at a position of need.

Dallas gets Jerami Grant (two-way player who will be second banana).

3. Hopefully Dallas signs Goran Dragic after being bought out.

Dallas can run a line up of

Starters: Luka, Smart, Grant, DFS, Maxi

Bench: Dragic, FN, RB, SB, Horford.

Luka will be surrounded by capable defenders who can switch if needed who abd also score.

These trades takes care of the salaries of THJ, KP, and the free agency of Brunson.

Horford is a big expiring contract, DP, Maxi are also expiring. Idon'know if these are any good, just musing.