What would you have done as GM that would have gotten you an A+ this off-season?

[ItsGoTime]

B) the Mavs don't think he abides by your rule #1, even on the deal he got, or C) they simply didn't like him enough to abandon the over the cap approach and use space on him. I could be misreading the situation, but that's how I feel right now. 

This is contrary to the exercise. The FO is Kamm in this exercise, not the actual Mavs FO. Agree with Kamm or don’t, but the actual Mavs FO has no bearing on this conversation.

[KillerLeft]

This is contrary to the exercise. The FO is Kamm in this exercise, not the actual Mavs FO. Agree with Kamm or don’t, but the actual Mavs FO has no bearing on this conversation.

Fair, but I actually thought his post was interesting in ways not limited to the exercise and felt inspired to engage in the way I did.

[Kammrath]

Could have kept THJ while also adding Fournier

Bullock wasn't on my radar, but after digging in I would want him in place of one of those two. For me it is either THJ or EF, not both, because Bullock at $9M is a great steal for 3&D.

[KillerLeft]

Bullock wasn't on my radar, but after digging in I would want him in place of one of those two. For me it is either THJ or EF, not both, because Bullock at $9M is a great steal for 3&D.

Agreed here. Bullock is a nice pickup that should, in theory, inch the team forward on both ends. 

The only downside is his hair.

[Bayliss]

I wouldn't have signed Boban and I wouldn't have signed Hardaway Jr.  

I would have looked into Colin Sexton, or SAG (from OKC) to see what they wanted to get them.  Definitely kicked the tires on Ball.  He may not have wanted to come here but his play style is actually perfect with Luka.  Run offense, can hit the 3....  and defends.

I would have looked to trade Maxi and parts to Mosley and Orlando and see if they still want to keep all of their young prospects.

It may not have worked out.  

But then again, your post also implies that have autonomy to make the moves I would want to try and when has Cuban ever done that?

[soog]

I wouldn't have signed Boban and I wouldn't have signed Hardaway Jr.  

I would have looked into Colin Sexton, or SAG (from OKC) to see what they wanted to get them.  Definitely kicked the tires on Ball.  He may not have wanted to come here but his play style is actually perfect with Luka.  Run offense, can hit the 3....  and defends.

I would have looked to trade Maxi and parts to Mosley and Orlando and see if they still want to keep all of their young prospects.

It may not have worked out.  

But then again, your post also implies that have autonomy to make the moves I would want to try and when has Cuban ever done that?

I liked the thoughts on Sexton and Mosley.  Calling Mosley is a great out of the box approach at shuffling the roster.

[Mavs2021]

Read them all.

This is not the same exercise. We have more complete information now then we did then. We can complain that the Mavs didn’t sign Lowry, Lonzo, CP3, or Connelly, but now we know that none of them were truly available.  I was in favor of pursuing Lonzo, but now I see he had already picked Chicago so I have to pivot.  I liked Powell but he already had a deal lined up to return to Portland.  It looks like Fournier and Kemba were available, but I don’t like either of them on the Mavs, so I have to be ok with THJ.

What I’m attempting to do is have a conversation where we stop going through the same exercise from the last several months where we had complete information; I’m trying to have a new conversation with complete information where instead of complaining about our pipe dreams that had ZERO chance of happening, we discuss possible plan B’s that we would have liked more.

Let’s imagine we’re in the War room, it’s 5:01pm on Monday, we get off the phone with the agents of the top 4 FA PGs and they are going elsewhere, what do we do?

Sounds like a lot of people here would have quit their GM jobs then and there because they failed at Plan A.

So what?

The whole point of a front office is to assess the market place and free agency with imperfect information. To fill in the blanks is their whole job. It´s not exactly rocket science either. When you contact a free agent four weeks before the official start of FA and he keeps saying I think about it, that means he does not want to sign here and has or is looking for other options.

I guarantee you that´s what happened with Lowry. He did not say YES and then VAJ´d on August 1st. He said: eh maybe, we´ll see, could be, I consider you an option. THAT MEANS NOT HAPPENING. I don´t know how many times this has to happen before THE SHARK gets it. Apparently a decade of Danny Greens, Dwight Howards, Hassan Whitesides and Mike Conleys is not enough.

If it has not happened before Day One, it´s not happening at all, especially with the biggest available free agents.

At that point I expect the Mavs (with four weeks left on the clock until official free agency) to move onto their next plan/ realistic targets, UNTIL they get a definite YES from a FA or can make a trade.

You simply cannot convince me that in a decade thousands of free agents flat out rejected the Mavs. No it´s because they always target the wrong players.

For Christ´s sake Julius Randle lives in Dallas to this day. Every off-season he is back in the city, not in Los Angeles and  not in New York. He tattooed the city on his forearm in 2019. NOPE. Got to negotiate with the Grizzlies over a S&T for Delon Wright that actually cost us two 2nd round picks. Then people whine that nobody wants to sign here. You picked Delon Wright over JULIUS RANDLE and TWO 2nd round picks.

Look maybe the big trades are still happening. Maybe they pounce on some interesting players with the MLE or TPE, since I believe Bullock hasn´t officially signed yet. There is still time for the new MBT to be different.

So far though this is the same stupid Cuban playbook just with different people in charge. And there are no after the fact excuses. The only time they have a legit excuse is DeAndre Jordan Part I.

This off-season has only washed the hands of Carlisle and Donnie clean, without them even touching the soap.

[Kammrath]

This off-season has only washed the hands of Carlisle and Donnie clean, without them even touching the soap.

[DanSchwartzgan]

See, you ended your brow beating of those of us that don’t see a big difference between this current team and last years team on paper (on paper Bullock plays 50 games next season with a possible hold your breath that he makes it to the postseason) with this paragraph that was what some people were asking for before this stage of FA started.

You call it brow beating, I call it poking the bear with a slight bit of humor (without addressing the bear directly).  Tomato - Tom-ah-to.  


Sorry to disappoint in terms of not committing to any single “best” version of the summer.  I didn’t really love anything.  Killer called it right, I probably enjoy the strategy part more than anything.  Part of the issue with saying “this is the way it has to be or I’ll be upset was there were too many variables and uncertainties:

1. Unless you absolutely knew the plan for KP (here or gone)
2. Unless you absolutely knew the plan for KP (C or PF).  
3. Unless we knew the preferences of a new coach.
3. Plus, there just wasn’t a clear cut, obvious and realistic path to a no-brainer star.

I wanted improvement…big or small and didn’t (and still don’t) see the point of getting too upset that we didn’t go in any particular direction.  I did express in some of my writing that I hope this isn’t Sammy Superstar Chase Volume 8 and miss out on other good things (thankfully they didn’t).  I warned as early as the beginning of the season that improving without giving up THJ would be an issue.  People said he was a one-hit wonder.  Thankfully he gave us a repeat performance.  

I really like Holmes, but if KP is playing C, then he’s not the highest and best use of money.  It is REALLY hard to find the perfect PF to put next to KP and the only one who might have been close was never getting out of Atlanta’s grips without us paying a massive price in terms of talent.  I like the geriatric PG’s, but not at what they would have cost in cap space or outgoing players.  This is what happens when the cupboard is bare.  You can’t do the same things other teams do.  I tried to come up with clever angles to make something fantastic work, but most were never going to happen if players are dead-set on a certain outcome.

Where I depart from a lot of people is that I think we were closer than most here perceive.  “Closer” is a nebulous term.  People often retort that I’m nuts if I think we are a “Contender”…another nebulous term (I really like when people add “True” in front of “Contender” like that makes it more clear).  As I’ve said, if we had the marginal improvement of us having Batum or Crowder instead of them playing for LAC/Phoenix, I think we might have won two series last season (especially if we hadn’t had all the internal in-fighting).  I see Bullock instead of JRich as just such a move.  I really like us to win game six against the Clipps (with Kawhi) with that exchange.  Sterling has a chance to be helpful also.  Both are really good moves.

It does feel like we need one more piece (how good would it be if we had De’Andre Hunter or Patrick Williams to push someone to the bench and provide a slightly bigger frame at the 4/3 than what DFS provides).  Heck, imagine if we had done Crowder or Batum last summer to go with Bullock/Sterling this summer (never mind, that’s completely another topic).  But, more than anything, we need good KP back.  There isn’t any secondary playmaker who is going to make more of a difference than Good-KP makes.  And, there isn’t any secondary playmaker who can make up for Bad-KP.

[Jmaciscool]

You call it brow beating, I call it poking the bear with a slight bit of humor (without addressing the bear directly).  Tomato - Tom-ah-to.  


Sorry to disappoint in terms of not committing to any single “best” version of the summer.  I didn’t really love anything.  Killer called it right, I probably enjoy the strategy part more than anything.  Part of the issue with saying “this is the way it has to be or I’ll be upset was there were too many variables and uncertainties:

1. Too many variables unless you absolutely knew the plan for KP (here or gone)
2. Too many variables unless you absolutely knew the plan for KP (C or PF).  
3. Not knowing the preferences of a new coach.
3. No clear cut obvious and realistic path to a no-brainer star.

I wanted improvement…big or small and didn’t (and still don’t) see the point of getting too upset that we didn’t go in any particular direction.  I did express in some of my writing that I hope this isn’t Sammy Superstar Chase Volume 8 and miss out on other good things (thankfully they didn’t).  I warned as early as the beginning of the season that improving without giving up THJ would be an issue.  People said he was a one-hit wonder.  Thankfully he gave us a repeat performance.  

I really like Holmes, but if KP is playing C, then he’s not the highest and best use of money.  It is REALLY hard to find the perfect PF to put next to KP and the only one who might have been close was never getting out of Atlanta’s grips without us paying a massive price in terms of talent.  I like the geriatric PG’s, but not at what they would have cost in cap space or outgoing players.  This is what happens when the cupboard is bare.  You can’t do the same things other teams do.  I tried to come up with clever angles to make something fantastic work, but most were never going to happen if players are dead-set on a certain outcome.

Where I depart from a lot of people is that I think we were closer than most here perceive.  “Closer” is a nebulous term.  People often retort that I’m nuts if I think we are a “Contender”…another nebulous term (I really like when people add “True” in front of “Contender” like that makes it more clear).  As I’ve said, if we had the marginal improvement of us having Batum or Crowder instead of them playing for LAC/Phoenix, I think we might have won two series last season (especially if we hadn’t had all the internal in-fighting).  I see Bullock instead of JRich as just such a move.  I really like us to win game six against the Clipps (with Kawhi) with that exchange.  Sterling has a chance to be helpful also.  Both are really good moves.

It does feel like we need one more piece (how good would it be if we had De’Andre Hunter or Patrick Williams to push someone to the bench and provide a slightly bigger frame at the 4/3 than what DFS provides).  But, more than anything, we need good KP back.  There isn’t any secondary playmaker who is going to make more of a difference than Good-KP makes.  And, there isn’t any secondary playmaker who can make up for Bad-KP.

This is a post worth reading more than once.

[ItsGoTime]

You call it brow beating, I call it poking the bear with a slight bit of humor (without addressing the bear directly).  Tomato - Tom-ah-to.  


Sorry to disappoint in terms of not committing to any single “best” version of the summer.  I didn’t really love anything.  Killer called it right, I probably enjoy the strategy part more than anything.  Part of the issue with saying “this is the way it has to be or I’ll be upset was there were too many variables and uncertainties:

1. Unless you absolutely knew the plan for KP (here or gone)
2. Unless you absolutely knew the plan for KP (C or PF).  
3. Unless we knew the preferences of a new coach.
3. Plus, there just wasn’t a clear cut, obvious and realistic path to a no-brainer star.

I wanted improvement…big or small and didn’t (and still don’t) see the point of getting too upset that we didn’t go in any particular direction.  I did express in some of my writing that I hope this isn’t Sammy Superstar Chase Volume 8 and miss out on other good things (thankfully they didn’t).  I warned as early as the beginning of the season that improving without giving up THJ would be an issue.  People said he was a one-hit wonder.  Thankfully he gave us a repeat performance.  

I really like Holmes, but if KP is playing C, then he’s not the highest and best use of money.  It is REALLY hard to find the perfect PF to put next to KP and the only one who might have been close was never getting out of Atlanta’s grips without us paying a massive price in terms of talent.  I like the geriatric PG’s, but not at what they would have cost in cap space or outgoing players.  This is what happens when the cupboard is bare.  You can’t do the same things other teams do.  I tried to come up with clever angles to make something fantastic work, but most were never going to happen if players are dead-set on a certain outcome.

Where I depart from a lot of people is that I think we were closer than most here perceive.  “Closer” is a nebulous term.  People often retort that I’m nuts if I think we are a “Contender”…another nebulous term (I really like when people add “True” in front of “Contender” like that makes it more clear).  As I’ve said, if we had the marginal improvement of us having Batum or Crowder instead of them playing for LAC/Phoenix, I think we might have won two series last season (especially if we hadn’t had all the internal in-fighting).  I see Bullock instead of JRich as just such a move.  I really like us to win game six against the Clipps (with Kawhi) with that exchange.  Sterling has a chance to be helpful also.  Both are really good moves.

It does feel like we need one more piece (how good would it be if we had De’Andre Hunter or Patrick Williams to push someone to the bench and provide a slightly bigger frame at the 4/3 than what DFS provides).  Heck, imagine if we had done Crowder or Batum last summer to go with Bullock/Sterling this summer (never mind, that’s completely another topic).  But, more than anything, we need good KP back.  There isn’t any secondary playmaker who is going to make more of a difference than Good-KP makes.  And, there isn’t any secondary playmaker who can make up for Bad-KP.

So this is perfectly said. I don’t think any different than what you said above. I guess I didn’t see the brow beating (I felt that was a soft enough term to not offend, sorry if it did!) as sarcasm with it being a follow-up to another complaint from another poster. Sorry for escalating that. 


I think this basic run it back offseason with possible improvement from a few changed out names and big change of coaching has a decent chance of getting us hca in at least the first round and a good possibility of a second round trip. Like you said, if we take a big step forward, it’ll probably mostly be because of KP.

While I can see a path to huge improvement over last year with this run it back approach, I can’t fault those who are very upset with little change in roster names and another year of failed plan A. I don’t fully hate the more optimistic views either, but they get under my skin a bit too. I’m constantly being triggered these days during the offseason with my wait and see approach, but I can’t figure out how to pick a side.

[Kammrath]

Where I depart from a lot of people is that I think we were closer than most here perceive.  “Closer” is a nebulous term.  People often retort that I’m nuts if I think we are a “Contender”…another nebulous term (I really like when people add “True” in front of “Contender” like that makes it more clear).  As I’ve said, if we had the marginal improvement of us having Batum or Crowder instead of them playing for LAC/Phoenix, I think we might have won two series last season (especially if we hadn’t had all the internal in-fighting).  I see Bullock instead of JRich as just such a move.  I really like us to win game six against the Clipps (with Kawhi) with that exchange.  Sterling has a chance to be helpful also.  Both are really good moves.

It does feel like we need one more piece (how good would it be if we had De’Andre Hunter or Patrick Williams to push someone to the bench and provide a slightly bigger frame at the 4/3 than what DFS provides).  Heck, imagine if we had done Crowder or Batum last summer to go with Bullock/Sterling this summer (never mind, that’s completely another topic).  But, more than anything, we need good KP back.  There isn’t any secondary playmaker who is going to make more of a difference than Good-KP makes.  And, there isn’t any secondary playmaker who can make up for Bad-KP.

100% with you.


The Mavs had three big issues last year:

1) Lockerroom chemistry/dynamics

2) JRich's poor fit and performance

3) KP's poor fit and performance


The top 2 issues have been addressed by 1) a coaching change and 2) upgrading JR's spot, though the success of those is still "to be determined." The third one is the giant elephant in the room. 

Could a coaching change (with a scheme change and a different voice communicating to his fragile psyche) be enough to change KP's poor fit and performance? 

Could a healthy offseason be enough to change KP's poor fit and performance?


The front office is banking on those it seems (though I will NOT be shocked by a KP trade before training camp). And if one or both of those DOES change the performance and fit of KP, then I think the Mavs are instantly "contenders" (assuming Bullock is as big of an upgrade as I think on JR). Not just "second round" contenders, but legit threats to make the NBA Finals IMO. Luka is too damn good at elevating the folks around him for them not to be a "good KP" away from contention. Even last year with a "bad KP" and horrible lockerroom tension, the Mavs were a top 3 team when JR didn't play. 

They are close. Way closer than most fans are seeing IMO.

[Branduil]

Trade KP for Brogdon and Turner, done, A+ offseason.

[hakeemfaan]

Mavs issues go deeper than just a few. We are deluding ourselves just limiting our analysis to possibly speculating what could have have happened in this series or that if one or two pieces were different. That too good but not great pieces like Crowder or Batum

The problem with that type of mindset is that a new season will present newer challenges. Some anticipated. Some not. As a team GM the mindset has to be to shore up glaring weaknesses.  The fact that the coach had to throw in Boban and Burke in key situations show that there was no stable strength the coach could rely on. 

The Mavs had three glaring weaknesses last year:
a) Their starting level talent is not good other than Luka. So every series no matter how close the final results might be, that is something Luka has to overcome that stars on other better teams are not burdened with.  The Mavs did nothing to improve that this off-season. 

b) They need a legit running mate for Luka. To ease his workload and also to ensure that he is not spent by the time the 4th qtr arrives. Maybe if we get Dragic that might help. Might. But so far we don’t even have that. 

c) The team has weaknesses in the paint with strength and rebounding.  They have some projects but again no one I can see and say that this person can help. Even a veteran like Dwight is better than anyone the Mavs roll out. 

This is not to trash the acquisitions. I think the Mavs are on the right track. This is not to blame the FO. The previous regime really didn’t do many favors with the lack of talent and picks.   However I don’t see us as being very close to a legit contender unless some of the glaring flaws I have talked about are addressed.

[Scott41theMavs]

Until I read soog's post of his plan for the offseason, I thought his OP was just a bear-poke rhetorical question. This thread actually turned into a pretty good conversation.

My take on the initial question is that it's an existentially impossible question to answer. I have been consistent in saying that the key move this summer - more important than anything else conceivable - was to get out from under KP. So, to understand what the best possible offseason would have been, I have to know what each of the other 29 teams would have given us, if anything, in trade for KP, because my foundational offseason move would have been to take the best of those. I cannot believe that that deal would require spending an asset like Brunson, DFS, or our distantly-available FRP. It would likely involve some smaller, mini-albatross contracts coming back, but hopefully at least one starter-worthy player.

I understand that the Mavs are holding their nose right now at whatever that best package is. I understand that they are betting that KP can improve, either for the sake of being kept (continued living on the edge, ugh) or for generating higher trade value. I think that's an insanely dangerous game to be fooling around with for this team. We're talking about a player who 1) has had two devastating injuries - the first putting him out for a far longer time, but the second, minor as it is on paper, being far more damaging to his on-court performance, 2) is of a physical build of player whose careers tend not to last long due to the tendencies toward such injuries, 3) was most damaged this past season in that the once most-valued aspect of his game was in essence inverted - he became as colossal of a liability as he once was a near-star in terms of his defensive anchoring and rim protection, 4) to bet on him increasing in value entails the all-in premise that #3 is a *temporary* result of his second injury when common sense would seem to dictate rather conclusively that it's almost certainly a *permanent* result of that injury (let me be clear here - if that defensive bottom-out isn't a temporary fluke, then his trade value WILL NOT INCREASE AT ALL beyond the baby steps taken as his contract gets shorter - ***if*** he can stay injury-free), 5) then you get into his locker room persona as a prima donna, 6) then you get into the reports of our generational franchise cornerstone, who gets along jollily with just about everyone, doesn't like him at all. Oh, and if he suffers another major injury this coming season (history indicates about 50% chance), he turns into 2.5 years of dead cap in our generational talent's likely decade-long prime. 

I actually believe that KP could probably turn the defensive issues around with some good sports psychology and going back to throwing himself around with abandon. That likely raises his trade value in the short term, but also greatly increases the chances of a career-ruining injury. Better time that opportunistic trade *just* right!!!

My bottom line is, unless I'm wrong and the very best deal the Mavs could have gotten from the other 29 teams involved the Mavs having to send one of their three big assets just to get out from under KP's contract, then it was a dangerous and rather catastrophic mistake not to move him. They might still do so, but I think this past week was likely their best chance. He's not likely to gain in value over the course of the rest of the offseason.

Ergo, since I'm presuming KP gone, of course my second move, perhaps first chronologically, is to money-whip Holmes so that you land the man. Idgas about his contract being a burden; he's worth it to us with Luka. Probably talking $17M first year to get it done.

I have tooted my horn that THJ is not a starter for this team since the season ended. I get that he walked away from bigger offers, but he's still overpaid for the role he ought to have. We did not acquire another playmaker. THJ meets LukaMavs needs as a shooter, but he isn't good enough at creating his own shot, and he isn't good enough at defense. Welp, he's a starter (or a guy playing starter minutes off the bench) for the foreseeable future.

I will say that it's hard to argue against the THJ signing based on what we've seen since, and Mavs2021's point - very, very few players want to come here. You have to snag the ones who do. Even so, if the Mavs could have gotten Fournier (slightly worse defense but slightly better playmaking) or especially Norman Powell (significantly better D and playmaking), I think that would have been the better route to go.

I think the Bullock signing, and perhaps the SB signing, were quite good in terms of improving the talent level and fit of the roster. I used to say we had two decent starters (Luka and DFS). I'm willing to promote THJ with a gulp (perhaps playing next to Bullock improves his defense), and Bullock is good enough. KP is a placeholder until traded or hurt. I think not finding a way to get a real center is going to bite us. Right now it looks like WCS is our best real center, unless KP magically gets at least half of his defensive mojo back (imagine cow's face right now). And we already rue the day on Mills, but he likely wouldn't have come for what he went to the Nets for. I don't think the MBT worked hard enough to address the playmaking issue for sure, and Dragic is looking a lot like Danny Green 2.0. If not Dragic19 2.0. 

If we don't make any further moves, we have a slightly better roster - at least until KP gets hurt. D+ for me, but could of course increase with a surprisingly good further move.

[Mapka]

It does feel like we need one more piece (how good would it be if we had De’Andre Hunter or Patrick Williams to push someone to the bench and provide a slightly bigger frame at the 4/3 than what DFS provides).  Heck, imagine if we had done Crowder or Batum last summer to go with Bullock/Sterling this summer (never mind, that’s completely another topic).  But, more than anything, we need good KP back.  There isn’t any secondary playmaker who is going to make more of a difference than Good-KP makes.  And, there isn’t any secondary playmaker who can make up for Bad-KP.

I strongly believe losing Seth Curry is a big reason for "bad KP".
Seth was a real spacer and secondary playmaker in combination with Brunson on the offensive end, but also adept in transition defense and able to funnle somebody into KPs helpdefense. He wasn´t good against bigger players that can shoot over him for sure.

Having four interchangeable offensive guards kept them all fresh and at a high level. Ever since Brunson tore his labrum we were short in this category.

[cow]

I strongly believe losing Seth Curry is a big reason for "bad KP".
Seth was a real spacer and secondary playmaker in combination with Brunson on the offensive end, but also adept in transition defense and able to funnle somebody into KPs helpdefense. He wasn´t good against bigger players that can shoot over him for sure.

Having four interchangeable offensive guards kept them all fresh and at a high level. Ever since Brunson tore his labrum we were short in this category.

Losing Seth hits me in the feels.  Dude wanted to be here and we should never take that for granted.  It's the only reason I'm not more down on the THJ contract.

[Jason Terry]

Until I read soog's post of his plan for the offseason, I thought his OP was just a bear-poke rhetorical question. This thread actually turned into a pretty good conversation.

My take on the initial question is that it's an existentially impossible question to answer. I have been consistent in saying that the key move this summer - more important than anything else conceivable - was to get out from under KP. So, to understand what the best possible offseason would have been, I have to know what each of the other 29 teams would have given us, if anything, in trade for KP, because my foundational offseason move would have been to take the best of those. I cannot believe that that deal would require spending an asset like Brunson, DFS, or our distantly-available FRP. It would likely involve some smaller, mini-albatross contracts coming back, but hopefully at least one starter-worthy player.

I understand that the Mavs are holding their nose right now at whatever that best package is. I understand that they are betting that KP can improve, either for the sake of being kept (continued living on the edge, ugh) or for generating higher trade value. I think that's an insanely dangerous game to be fooling around with for this team. We're talking about a player who 1) has had two devastating injuries - the first putting him out for a far longer time, but the second, minor as it is on paper, being far more damaging to his on-court performance, 2) is of a physical build of player whose careers tend not to last long due to the tendencies toward such injuries, 3) was most damaged this past season in that the once most-valued aspect of his game was in essence inverted - he became as colossal of a liability as he once was a near-star in terms of his defensive anchoring and rim protection, 4) to bet on him increasing in value entails the all-in premise that #3 is a *temporary* result of his second injury when common sense would seem to dictate rather conclusively that it's almost certainly a *permanent* result of that injury (let me be clear here - if that defensive bottom-out isn't a temporary fluke, then his trade value WILL NOT INCREASE AT ALL beyond the baby steps taken as his contract gets shorter - ***if*** he can stay injury-free), 5) then you get into his locker room persona as a prima donna, 6) then you get into the reports of our generational franchise cornerstone, who gets along jollily with just about everyone, doesn't like him at all. Oh, and if he suffers another major injury this coming season (history indicates about 50% chance), he turns into 2.5 years of dead cap in our generational talent's likely decade-long prime. 

I actually believe that KP could probably turn the defensive issues around with some good sports psychology and going back to throwing himself around with abandon. That likely raises his trade value in the short term, but also greatly increases the chances of a career-ruining injury. Better time that opportunistic trade *just* right!!!

My bottom line is, unless I'm wrong and the very best deal the Mavs could have gotten from the other 29 teams involved the Mavs having to send one of their three big assets just to get out from under KP's contract, then it was a dangerous and rather catastrophic mistake not to move him. They might still do so, but I think this past week was likely their best chance. He's not likely to gain in value over the course of the rest of the offseason.

Ergo, since I'm presuming KP gone, of course my second move, perhaps first chronologically, is to money-whip Holmes so that you land the man. Idgas about his contract being a burden; he's worth it to us with Luka. Probably talking $17M first year to get it done.

I have tooted my horn that THJ is not a starter for this team since the season ended. I get that he walked away from bigger offers, but he's still overpaid for the role he ought to have. We did not acquire another playmaker. THJ meets LukaMavs needs as a shooter, but he isn't good enough at creating his own shot, and he isn't good enough at defense. Welp, he's a starter (or a guy playing starter minutes off the bench) for the foreseeable future.

I will say that it's hard to argue against the THJ signing based on what we've seen since, and Mavs2021's point - very, very few players want to come here. You have to snag the ones who do. Even so, if the Mavs could have gotten Fournier (slightly worse defense but slightly better playmaking) or especially Norman Powell (significantly better D and playmaking), I think that would have been the better route to go.

I think the Bullock signing, and perhaps the SB signing, were quite good in terms of improving the talent level and fit of the roster. I used to say we had two decent starters (Luka and DFS). I'm willing to promote THJ with a gulp (perhaps playing next to Bullock improves his defense), and Bullock is good enough. KP is a placeholder until traded or hurt. I think not finding a way to get a real center is going to bite us. Right now it looks like WCS is our best real center, unless KP magically gets at least half of his defensive mojo back (imagine cow's face right now). And we already rue the day on Mills, but he likely wouldn't have come for what he went to the Nets for. I don't think the MBT worked hard enough to address the playmaking issue for sure, and Dragic is looking a lot like Danny Green 2.0. If not Dragic19 2.0. 

If we don't make any further moves, we have a slightly better roster - at least until KP gets hurt. D+ for me, but could of course increase with a surprisingly good further move.

KP is the elephant in the room, but i think your expectations are too high on getting a trade done so soon. 

The way i saw it was we need to bring in as much talent as possible first. Make our signings and trades. THEN once we are all done we move on to trade KP.......that way we know where we stand as far as roster construction. It’s why I’ve been such a fan of Markkanen even though the fit is awkward perhaps. He has talent and we need young talent. We still have another move to make prior to KP. 

As far as the return in a KP trade i see 2 possible directions. 1) trade his contract mostly straight up for the best player(Tobi Harris, Turner, McCollum etc) or 2) wait even longer(TDL or next summer) and trade his contract along with assets for a legit superstar 

Next summer we can trade 3 FRP’s if we wanted. Something like KP + our best contract + 3 FRP’s for Dame, Jokic, Simmons or Beal after they demand a trade 

My money has been on Jokic for awhile. One more year of Luka and Jokic falling short while watching all these other teams and players game the system joining up together and i think they find a way to force the issue. 

Overall point is that a KP trade is franchise changing and we can’t afford to mess it up twice. Patience is best

[KillerLeft]

Where I depart from a lot of people is that I think we were closer than most here perceive.  “Closer” is a nebulous term.  People often retort that I’m nuts if I think we are a “Contender”…another nebulous term (I really like when people add “True” in front of “Contender” like that makes it more clear). 

I loved the whole of this post, and honestly, I love most of your posts. But, the above snippet seems to go out of its way to be pointedly snarky. I don't know that it's aimed at me, obviously, but I know I've used that term and qualifier for the term before. 

Be honest. Do you not agree that there are almost always 2-5 teams that stand out from the rest of the league pretty much right at the beginning of the season, and sometimes even before the season starts? Do you not agree that the winner almost always comes from that group? Are you meaning to poke fun at people who think that way, suggesting that any playoff team has a chance? Because that has not really been my experience with the NBA over the years, personally. 

Now, if your point is "well, tough - you've got to try! Just keep getting better and see what happens!" that's another story. I can totally get behind that message. But, I think many of us believe that the gap between playoff team and "true contender", which, sorry, I think is abundantly clear, is even wider than the the gap between making the playoffs or landing in the 10th-11th seed most years.

I agree that "closer" is nebulous, but "contender" is pretty clear, imo. Example: "The Mavs' new additions, THJ, Bullock and SBrown, move them closer to contention, but I wouldn't say they're true contenders yet." To me, this is quite clear in meaning and almost axiomatic. Had I known there were people rubbed the wrong way by this I might have expressed quite a few thoughts differently over the years.

[Mavs2021]

So this is perfectly said. I don’t think any different than what you said above. I guess I didn’t see the brow beating (I felt that was a soft enough term to not offend, sorry if it did!) as sarcasm with it being a follow-up to another complaint from another poster. Sorry for escalating that. 


I think this basic run it back offseason with possible improvement from a few changed out names and big change of coaching has a decent chance of getting us hca in at least the first round and a good possibility of a second round trip. Like you said, if we take a big step forward, it’ll probably mostly be because of KP.

While I can see a path to huge improvement over last year with this run it back approach, I can’t fault those who are very upset with little change in roster names and another year of failed plan A. I don’t fully hate the more optimistic views either, but they get under my skin a bit too. I’m constantly being triggered these days during the offseason with my wait and see approach, but I can’t figure out how to pick a side.

Certainly a possibility. At the same time this same improvement is expected by many other teams. I think Utah/Phoenix will run away with the regular season again. Denver/Clippers due to their injuries fall back into the pack of Mavs, Blazers, Grizzlies, Lakers, and Warriors. We´ll have a pretty tight race from third to ninth. Same drop off to Spurs/Pelicans/Kings/Wolves as last year with the Wolves getting better and the Spurs getting worse. Rockets/Thunder in tank mode again.