THJ stays or goes

[Scott41theMavs]

Well you certainly don't want his as your second best player as was the case this year but I don't get how him being a 3rd or 4th option would automatically be a bad thing
I mean ship him out ASAP if it means we can get a that better 2nd guy, but in terms of 3rd and 4th guys he seems as good of a fit as any of them. Age and price are my main concerns with him

Because defense. 

He needs to be the sixth man moving forward, as in, no more than 25 mpg. You don't pay that guy over $15M, no way, no how.

[Scott41theMavs]

They have to get someone better than THJ to no keep THJ.

HOW BOUT DAH

Literally speaking, yes, in terms of direct replacement, no.

Our team needs are shot creation and defense. The guy we bring in might be a significantly worse outside shooter, but if he can create his own shot and is a plus on defense, then he's better than THJ for the Mavs. If we get a switchable big who is a rim-roller and can defend the rim - e.g. Holmes or Allen - then that's a better player than THJ for sure. 

We don't need our roster littered with immovable contracts (like THJ if we sign him again at his current rate or higher, which might be necessary in this market) when we don't have a second star. And it's going to take a lot of good GMing in the next two years (hope you're up to it, Nico) to achieve that. 

In any event, there are about eight FAs out there who are better than THJ. If we can't get one of them, we whiffed on our GM hire.

[cow]

The guy we bring in might be a significantly worse outside shooter, but if he can create his own shot and is a plus on defense, then he's better than THJ for the Mavs. 

Devil's advocate but isn't that Josh Richardson?  Could Josh benefit from Kidd and getting away from Carlisle's inconsistent rotations and minutes distributions?

[Jym]

Because defense. 

He needs to be the sixth man moving forward, as in, no more than 25 mpg. You don't pay that guy over $15M, no way, no how.

In good news no one actually plays perimeter defense in 2021 in any substantial way 
The rules just don't allow it

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

If the Mavs want a more budget version of THJ, then Alec Burks is a direct replacement.

If the Mavs got to spend their cap on a big + a small playmaker, then Sterling Brown seems like a 3-and-D SG to go after. You get the defense of JRich with some shooting from THJ. Just don't expect him to light it up like THJ.

[Scott41theMavs]

In good news no one actually plays perimeter defense in 2021 in any substantial way 
The rules just don't allow it

As I said in the other thread, I believe the Bucks proved last night that defense still matters. They sure as hell didn't win with offense, with Giannis's teammates bricking open shot after open shot. 

In other words, hogwash. As the commentators noted during the game, in the playoffs, the whistles get swallowed.

[MFFL]

Hollinger places a very low value on Richardson

19. Tim Hardaway Jr., SG, Mavericks: $12,853,601
One of the most interesting free-agency conundrums is in Dallas, where newly installed general manager Nico Harrison’s first big question is “Tim Hardaway Jr. or cap space?”
The Mavs can have $23 million in room if they decline Willie Cauley-Stein’s team option and let Hardaway walk, but who are they signing that would be an upgrade? “Kyle Lowry” would surely be one answer, but the Mavs might not have quite enough dough to get in that game. Lonzo Ball might be another, but he’ll have other suitors too and may not fancy being Luka’s sidekick.
Going further down the list, would Fournier or Powell be a meaningful improvement? Probably not if it also costs them their full MLE and the ability to operate as an “over-the-cap” team. So the Mavs could ultimately end up resetting with Hardaway at three years in the $40-50 million range.

[dirkfansince1998]

Last year Hollinger predicted a 16-17m contract for Whiteside. Can only hope that he made some adjustments to his formula.

[MFFL]

He did. The first part of the article was explaining the changes he made

[Jym]

As I said in the other thread, I believe the Bucks proved last night that defense still matters. They sure as hell didn't win with offense, with Giannis's teammates bricking open shot after open shot. 

In other words, hogwash. As the commentators noted during the game, in the playoffs, the whistles get swallowed.

I think the Bucks would have won in 5 games max if they replaced Holiday with the Hardaway we saw in the first round. How likely is that? Probably not very. Dude was on fire

[Mak]

Looking at the Mavs roster / cap and the discussions being had around the team online, kinda surprised THJ isn’t a bigger topic. Seems super important how he’s handled this summer. 


THJ is essentially our only truly “bad” contract at the moment, in a certain context. Porzingis is the only other one that’s a huge issue of course but he’s got an asterisk of being an exceptional superstar talent theoretically going forward and we’re fully committed to him at huge price for several years anyway. 


The rest of the contracts some criticize (probably led by Dwight Powell) may or may not be great value but they ultimately just aren’t large enough to be truly “bad” and restrictive either. Even with KP’s deal eating up huge space, it’s very possible to remain super flexible if there’s only 1 huge bloated salary on the entire cap. 


THJ, however, seems very expensive and not worth it at all imo IF his role / production doesn’t really change much. Adding another bloated deal to the cap long term could be disastrous if he doesn’t work out and KP continues to disappoint. 

A bench player who has a ceiling of maybe being a barely-average production guy in the regular season (and not even that much when the playoffs come around) is not worth his huge salary. Especially not on this team. 

Obviously that changes if the coach / GM believe he eventually becomes a consistent above average starter or worst case scenario a guy who technically comes off the bench but ultimately functions as a top 5 above average player. 


Am I crazy or is this a HUGE, pivotal decision for Nico, Kidd, and co this summer?

[Scott41theMavs]

Looking at the Mavs roster / cap and the discussions being had around the team online, kinda surprised THJ isn’t a bigger topic. Seems super important how he’s handled this summer. 


THJ is essentially our only truly “bad” contract at the moment, in a certain context. Porzingis is the only other one that’s a huge issue of course but he’s got an asterisk of being an exceptional superstar talent theoretically going forward and we’re fully committed to him at huge price for several years anyway. 


The rest of the contracts some criticize (probably led by Dwight Powell) may or may not be great value but they ultimately just aren’t large enough to be truly “bad” and restrictive either. Even with KP’s deal eating up huge space, it’s very possible to remain super flexible if there’s only 1 huge bloated salary on the entire cap. 


THJ, however, seems very expensive and not worth it at all imo IF his role / production doesn’t really change much. Adding another bloated deal to the cap long term could be disastrous if he doesn’t work out and KP continues to disappoint. 

A bench player who has a ceiling of maybe being a barely-average production guy in the regular season (and not even that much when the playoffs come around) is not worth his huge salary. Especially not on this team. 

Obviously that changes if the coach / GM believe he eventually becomes a consistent above average starter or worst case scenario a guy who technically comes off the bench but ultimately functions as a top 5 above average player. 


Am I crazy or is this a HUGE, pivotal decision for Nico, Kidd, and co this summer?

If they don't have their heads up their butts, they already know he can't start on a Luka-led team.

[dirkfansince1998]

Based on his production and level of play in the last two seasons THJ is clearly a starting caliber player. Would argue that most playoff teams had worse players in their starting five. Problem is the fit and his role. THJ was the 2nd or 3rd option last season. He stepped up and provided scoring and 3-point volume that the Mavs desperately needed. Cannot really blame him for some of the off games. He wasn´t supposed to play that role and did better than I ever expected. Whatever the team/coaches asked him to do. He did it. Came of the bench. Started. Played 20 minutes. Played 40 minutes.
Problem: If the Mavs add another playmaker and THJ loses touches/usage his offensive impact won´t be enough to overcome the defensive short comings. Meaning that he would be best used as the 6th man of the bench. I would be happy to have him in that kind of role but not on a contract in the 15m + range.

[Scott41theMavs]

Based on his production and level of play in the last two seasons THJ is clearly a starting caliber player. Would argue that most playoff teams had worse players in their starting five. Problem is the fit and his role. THJ was the 2nd or 3rd option last season. He stepped up and provided scoring and 3-point volume that the Mavs desperately needed. Cannot really blame him for some of the off games. He wasn´t supposed to play that role and did better than I ever expected. Whatever the team/coaches asked him to do. He did it. Came of the bench. Started. Played 20 minutes. Played 40 minutes.
Problem: If the Mavs add another playmaker and THJ loses touches/usage his offensive impact won´t be enough to overcome the defensive short comings. Meaning that he would be best used as the 6th man of the bench. I would be happy to have him in that kind of role but not on a contract in the 15m + range.

Exactly.

[vfromlmf]

THJ is a good fit next to Luka but he should be the 6th man. He's a serious competitor, and I like that. He was fearless in the playoffs. Obviously, I hate the occasional 0-12 shooting nights, but he generally shows up in big games. My best guess is he'll start and sign in that Joe Harris 4/72 range.

[cow]

THJ is a good fit next to Luka but he should be the 6th man. He's a serious competitor, and I like that. He was fearless in the playoffs. Obviously, I hate the occasional 0-12 shooting nights, but he generally shows up in big games. My best guess is he'll start and sign in that Joe Harris 4/72 range.

I'm not sure I agree on showing up for big games.  He was good in 4 of our 7 playoff games this year including the three wins.  That's an improvement over the previous years playoffs.  He also was pretty bad most of April during the regular season.

[vfromlmf]

I'm not sure I agree on showing up for big games.  He was good in 4 of our 7 playoff games this year including the three wins.  That's an improvement over the previous years playoffs.  He also was pretty bad most of April during the regular season.

Agree with that in concept but what I mean by "shows up" is he's a threat and doesn't back down. Some players disappear in the playoffs. THJ's presence is always felt. The problem is he's inconsistent and doesn't always deliver. I put him in a similar category with a guy like Marcus Morris. 1-10 in Game 6 and scored 4 pts. But you can't back off Morris because if you do, he'll eventually hit you with a game 7 where he went off for 7-9 from 3 and scored 23 points on 15 shots.