Is the Mavs' coaching job a total nightmare?

[KillerLeft]

As for the maturity - Luka is a 22 year old kid, I said that. Why are you expecting a 22 year old to be most mature person? He will get there, he will grow up. Until then you have to help him with wise man around him.

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I wouldn't be freaking out every time he has an argument with someone in the organization right now. 

When Luka gets to the point where he's coming in like a grown man and voicing concerns, that's one thing, but this notion that we have to fire everyone he yells at in the throes of a competitively charged, emotional atmosphere is silly. How can we expect Luka to get better if we remove anyone who knows more than he does? I didn't like it when my teachers corrected me when I was young, either. Stuff happens, feelings get involved. Now, I look back at those people with nothing but gratitude.

[KillerLeft]

The out of shape thing - the problem is if he comes out of shape again. But I fully expect him to come in top/best shape. Physical preparation and free throws are main tasks he has to work on. Rest is awesome.

100% agree here. 

I DON'T think his early-season conditioning was overblown at all, but I think you're right on the money here that he won't make that mistake again. I think regardless of whether we're each right or wrong about it, or to what degree, Luka himself knows exactly how much his conditioning factored into his season, and he's too much of a competitor to allow that to bite him again. 

Also, free throws. Absolutely.

[Fuerza1]

Surveying the landscape of divas around the league, if a coaching candidate is so insecure that he doesn't think he can handle Luka Doncic then I'd argue he's not qualified to coach at least half the teams in the NBA. I wouldn't want him anyway.

Assuming he did not get fired behind the scenes, and quit on his own merit, you just described Coach Rick Carlisle. Thank God he is gone.

[Jommybone]

I too came into the season out of shape. And I yelled at the coach a few times and the refs every game. At age 52, I don’t think I have the same excuses as Luka. Fortunately, I am so far removed that my misdeeds have no effect. 

Luka, on the other hand, is under a 24/7 spotlight. Considering that, wow, what exemplary behavior!

[KillerLeft]

Luka, on the other hand, is under a 24/7 spotlight. Considering that, wow, what exemplary behavior!

Yeah, this is a valid point. 

As difficult as it might be to coach a young superstar (in some ways - in others it's obviously much easier) it's probably quite the learning curve for said young superstar to learn how every little thing they say and do gets scrutinized to unhealthy levels. It's probably tough to live under that microscope.

[Silent Mav]

It's easy to take for granted how spoiled we've all become from Dirk's behavior his whole career. He is the true unicorn.

[KillerLeft]

It's easy to take for granted how spoiled we've all become from Dirk's behavior his whole career. He is the true unicorn.

For sure. 

I suppose you could also make a case that if he had been just a little more willing to think like these guys do today and throw his weight around juuuuuust a little, that might have led to better job performance from Cuban and Donnie back in the day.

[fifteenth]

True that about Dirk. 

But Luka's personality, his fearlessness, ability not to be intimidated by anyone, is part of what makes him great, and part of what makes him ride refs and yell at coaches. But then in the post game he says "yeah, I gotta stop yelling at refs", and "yeah, Rick is a great coach." So gotta take the

[Silent Mav]

That would be a good "what if" conversation to have when things slow down. If there was a real threat of losing Dirk, who in management would've upped their game? You could kiss your fan base goodbye if he left.

[KillerLeft]

But Luka's personality, his fearlessness, ability not to be intimidated by anyone, is part of what makes him great, and part of what makes him ride refs and yell at coaches.

TOTALLY. 

Wouldn't change a thing about Luka, so far. I think he has an edge to his personality that will help him get to the top of the heap way faster than Dirk did (not to be sacrilegious). 

My worry is that this organization won't be up to the task of working with him properly. Everyone seems to think that means giving in to anything and everything he wants (or that they THINK he might want). I just feel like that's the absolute best way to ensure he leaves, personally. When he "comes of age" he's going to want to be part of a GOOD, PROFESSIONAL organization. When he looks around the league, is that how Dallas will seem, comparatively? Man, I hope so.

[Silent Mav]

But tbh, you really can't compare the treatment of Dirk and Luka (maybe more so Luka) due to the different playing field today. The player empowerment, super teams and the very real threat of losing an elite player before his contract was up has changed things. If nothing else look at the Pelicans. They have Zion, Ingram, Hayes and a couple of other young players. Not to mention a bunch of picks from the Lakers and the Bucks. That fan base should be excited about the future. Instead due to comments by Zion's family now they are in a panic he will be gone after his rookie contract. Which one way or another is going to affect their immediate moves. It might not be a direction they were looking at before this. And in a way, the gm and coaching situations are similar.

[Scott41theMavs]

What lost me before even watching (I don't plan to) was the "undeserving" part.

Skip simply hates not only the Mavs, but especially Luka. He deprecates his basketball ability. That's a complete, gonzo, crap-for-brains take. It tells me that Skip knows less than zero about basketball, as in, whatever he says in evaluation, the opposite is almost certainly true. How many of Skip's pets have made the NBA first team their second and third year, before turning 23? I'll hang up and listen.

[fifteenth]

What lost me before even watching (I don't plan to) was the "undeserving" part.

Skip simply hates not only the Mavs, but especially Luka. He deprecates his basketball ability. That's a complete, gonzo, crap-for-brains take. It tells me that Skip knows less than zero about basketball, as in, whatever he says in evaluation, the opposite is almost certainly true. How many of Skip's pets have made the NBA first team their second and third year, before turning 23? I'll hang up and listen.

You misunderstand Skip. If Skip has real opinions, he doesn't share them. He is for or against things based on business decisions. When in Dallas he chose to be against Aikman. Once in the national media he positioned himself as the guy criticizing LeBron. Luka is his next target because that's what will get him noticed. He's THE coattail rider. If he has a genuine bone in his body, he doesn't show it on the job.

[Silent Mav]

So is it ok if I still hate John Hollinger?

[cow]

Skip only cares about narrative.  He hates Luka because he is in Dallas and Cuban embarrassed the hell out of him on his own show after the 2012 finals.  It is the same reason Dirk "isn't a top 50 player" and "Manu is better than Dirk".  The only thing he hates more than Dallas is LeBron which makes 2011 a tricky pickle for him.   Dallas didn't so much win the title as LeBron choked it away.  He is the ultimate front runner but can't seem to let go of the bandwagon, thus his love of the Cowboys.  I like Shannon, it is just too bad his media career ended up being the foil to Skip fucking Bayless.

Dallas is a great coaching opportunity.  The real question is if it is a great opportunity to be a GM.  Even if you can get Cuban to butt out, you are going to be responsible for the long term future of a potential all-timer with the Mavs.  That could be a lot of fun if it works out but the pressure will be immense (to borrow a Skip phrase).

[KillerLeft]

Dallas is a great coaching opportunity.  The real question is if it is a great opportunity to be a GM.  Even if you can get Cuban to butt out, you are going to be responsible for the long term future of a potential all-timer with the Mavs.  That could be a lot of fun if it works out but the pressure will be immense.

Good stuff here.

[hakeemfaan]

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I wouldn't be freaking out every time he has an argument with someone in the organization right now. 

When Luka gets to the point where he's coming in like a grown man and voicing concerns, that's one thing, but this notion that we have to fire everyone he yells at in the throes of a competitively charged, emotional atmosphere is silly. How can we expect Luka to get better if we remove anyone who knows more than he does? I didn't like it when my teachers corrected me when I was young, either. Stuff happens, feelings get involved. Now, I look back at those people with nothing but gratitude.

Who asked to freak out? I was just referring to @"omahen" saying that he went back and saw nothing to worry about in Luka's past. I was just saying that to me is irrelevant when there were obvious maturity issues in front of our eyes. 

So when that is pointed out, why is the goal post being moved and his age being brought up? If so, just say that the first time that he was immature and hopefully it is age related, than say that there is nothing in his past to be concerned about with him.

He came out of shape. I don't minimize that because the players or greats that he is compared to due to his talent and power he wields within the organization, never came out of shape.  Kobe, MJ, or even Dirk (at least not until he won that elusive title) never came out of shape.  All of them had many more excuses than a 21 year old Luka.   Plus how does one excuse him mocking and rubbing it in on a coach, by saying he might have felt that RC was following Bob's plan due to Cuban's orders. At the end of the day it is still sticking a knife into another person and twisting it to hurt.

I am a Mavs fan more than a Luka fan. Dirk won my respect because of his personality as much as his talent and efficiency. I know this is a different generation and there are things personality wise that are just different that an old fart like me won't understand.  However, I'm not going to just dismiss all this as age related, when there were the issues that I point above, apart from him not competing on defense and pouting after misses and not getting back.  Plus how does age become a crutch when there are strong rumblings that he was not ready to listen to a coach who could provide him the experience and guidance that he lacked due to his age?

There is insane talent there and also some issues. Just as I said with KP (and I was right then) you can't just brush these things away. As a Mavs fan we all hope that he matures and he stays for a long time here. However there were things that he did this year that didn't sit well with me.

[omahen]

Who asked to freak out? I was just referring to @omahen saying that he went back and saw nothing to worry about in Luka's past. I was just saying that to me is irrelevant when there were obvious maturity issues in front of our eyes. 

So when that is pointed out, why is the goal post being moved and his age being brought up? If so, just say that the first time that he was immature and hopefully it is age related, than say that there is nothing in his past to be concerned about with him.

He came out of shape. I don't minimize that because the players or greats that he is compared to due to his talent and power he wields within the organization, never came out of shape.  Kobe, MJ, or even Dirk (at least not until he won that elusive title) never came out of shape.  All of them had many more excuses than a 21 year old Luka.   Plus how does one excuse him mocking and rubbing it in on a coach, by saying he might have felt that RC was following Bob's plan due to Cuban's orders. At the end of the day it is still sticking a knife into another person and twisting it to hurt.

I am a Mavs fan more than a Luka fan. Dirk won my respect because of his personality as much as his talent and efficiency. I know this is a different generation and there are things personality wise that are just different that an old fart like me won't understand.  However, I'm not going to just dismiss all this as age related, when there were the issues that I point above, apart from him not competing on defense and pouting after misses and not getting back.  Plus how does age become a crutch when there are strong rumblings that he was not ready to listen to a coach who could provide him the experience and guidance that he lacked due to his age?

There is insane talent there and also some issues. Just as I said with KP (and I was right then) you can't just brush these things away. As a Mavs fan we all hope that he matures and he stays for a long time here. However there were things that he did this year that didn't sit well with me.

I think we are mixing two things here. One is being a diva and the other being immature. I agree about the latter, of course, he is only 22. But I don't think being immature equals being a diva.

Plus how does one excuse him mocking and rubbing it in on a coach, by saying he might have felt that RC was following Bob's plan due to Cuban's orders. At the end of the day it is still sticking a knife into another person and twisting it to hurt.

He didn't mock him. He told him to do the right move, not what was suggested by owners friend. A proud and respected coach would never make a move just because he is ordered to do it by a friend of the owner.

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He came out of shape. I don't minimize that because the players or greats that he is compared to due to his talent and power he wields within the organization, never came out of shape. 

None of those had Covid riddled offseason. And Luka came in better than year before. Or did that midrange just appear out of nowhere? I think you are unfair with your harsh critique looking at the world in black and white. There are objective reasons which were given.

[Mavs2021]

Well, "nightmare" is a strong word, and obviously misused in this situation. That's where the "take culture" steps in. 

I DO feel like if I were a coach, I wouldn't enjoy working for Mark Cuban. Straight up. That's my opinion. I think he's a joke.

Yeah okay that´s a fair point. In some twisted way makes us more attractive, too.
.
Number one Luka overrides everything. Number two you know you´ll win games for the next 2-3 years, because of how good Luka is.

If it all goes wrong (like three 1st round exits), you will most likely get out with your coaching reputation enhanced, because Cuban will get all the blame.

[KillerLeft]

Who asked to freak out? I was just referring to @omahen saying that he went back and saw nothing to worry about in Luka's past. I was just saying that to me is irrelevant when there were obvious maturity issues in front of our eyes.

Whoa, you lost me, pal. 

I wasn't referring any post of yours, or any previous argument you had with anyone, if that's what you think.