I'm just piggy backing off of this video from Undisputed with Skip & Shannon. I'm sure a lot of people don't like Skip for good reason, maybe don't like either guy but I thought this piece raises a lot of interesting points many of which have also been discussed here on this MavsBoard forum.
Short on time now so I'll just post the video and come back later to comment. Happy Father's Day.
Summary Starter, Shannon says it's not a nightmare its a great job with a young Superstar and promising franchise which is shocking for a coach to run away from this type of position, with 2 years left on his contract.
Skip says it s turrible job and that anyone in it will be caught between an over meddling Mark Cuban and undeserving DIVA in Luka Doncic.
You lost me at Skip Bayless. I honestly have no idea why anybody listens to the guy at all. He's just a professional troll.
(06-20-2021, 11:27 AM)Dahlsim Wrote: [ -> ]Skip says it s turrible job and that anyone in it will be caught between an over meddling Mark Cuban and undeserving DIVA in Luka Doncic.
Skip and Shannon's sole objective is to say the most controversial thing to get the most eyes. But they're smart because they know if they go too far people will get bored and tune out.
So the mere fact they said the Mavs head coaching vacancy is nightmarish means it's actually super attractive. Thanks Skiuuuuup and Shannon.
I watched it before and thought about sharing it too, I didn't because I know the 1st response was "you lost me at Skip"
But he has a point.
I am not sure people here will get the comparison but it reminds me with fc Barcelona job after Guardiola.
Goat of a player, great success, but as a coach you will get zero credit during wins, and all blame during failures (I guess it is a bit like Lebron) and no one who had no connection to the team was ever that interested.
Luka has picked many bad habits in past couple of years, Mavs looks like a mess right now.
That being said, there are only 30 HC jobs and very few vacancies. Non of them are world beaters either
So, even if nightmare, our top candidate is unlikely to turn us down
Mark is a pretty loyal long suffering owner. For better or worse, a new hire can stay as long as they want, provided they kiss the ring.
(06-20-2021, 12:24 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure people here will get the comparison but it reminds me with fc Barcelona job after Guardiola.
Goat of a player, great success, but as a coach you will get zero credit during wins, and all blame during failures (I guess it is a bit like Lebron) and no one who had no connection to the team was ever that interested.
If Phil Jackson could get a lot of credit coaching Jordan and Kobe, then any coach can get credit under any player.
(06-20-2021, 12:24 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I watched it before and thought about sharing it too, I didn't because I know the 1st response was "you lost me at Skip"
Setting aside my disdain for Skip for a moment and assuming it's just a general claim from anyone, I still think it's a bad take. Surveying the landscape of divas around the league, if a coaching candidate is so insecure that he doesn't think he can handle Luka Doncic then I'd argue he's not qualified to coach at least half the teams in the NBA. I wouldn't want him anyway.
There was one predraft rumor Luka is a Diva and not liked by teammates. Nothing like that was heard in Europe. I just discussed with a bunch of friends on Friday and no one thinks the report is (was) true. Sure we are Luka homers but also follow basketball a lot so someone might hear something if there was real fire behind.
There was no report of Luka being a Diva since he came to US. Sure he wants to win so he complained over some decisions he thought were wrong. Is that being a Diva? I don't think so. Does he perhaps complains too much? Might be, but sure he always took (public) accountability.
All in all Luka is a 22 year old kid. Anyone who thinks it is wise to give all the power to such a kid is wrong. I don't think Luka has any problem with anyone as long as he sees the person knows what he is doing. He is not here to be the coach or GM, he is here to play basketball.
Anyone who thinks a 22 year old kid should be the most mature person on the team is dead wrong. As good as Luka is at playing basketball he is still a 22 year old kid. So please stop trying to turn him into something he is not (a 30 year vet) and rather bring in a couple of vets to steer the ship the right way. Sort of what Atlanta (Bogi, Gallo, Rondo - Williams) or Phoenix (CP3, bunch of exception money vets) did.
(06-20-2021, 01:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]So please stop trying to turn him into something he is not (a 30 year vet) and rather bring in a couple of vets to steer the ship the right way. Sort of what Atlanta (Bogi, Gallo, Rondo - Williams) or Phoenix (CP3, bunch of exception money vets) did.
PJ Tucker and Batum!
Another thing. When asking who to bring in the main question shouldn't be if he will be liked by Luka or listen to Luka. It should be - will he be able to hold Luka accountable. I am sure Luka will listen
(06-20-2021, 01:52 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]PJ Tucker and Batum!
Certainly good names. We still need playing quality though, especially playmaking, so a bit more ambitious target would be my first priority.
I think the answer is both yes and no. There are some things you need to accept but if you fit in this is the best situation possible HC in the NBA.
Bayless mainly says wrong stupid things. Even crazy things.
I think Skip is a clown.
However, I also think Cuban is a clown.
Being stuck between Cuban, a clown, and Luka, a 22 year old who has the power to get you fired (without even meaning to) simply by making an off-handed comment in an interview or being overly demonstrative during games IS something that could be a problem. This WOULD occur to me if I were a coach looking for a job. There are a zillion GREAT things that come from the opportunity to coach Luka, obviously, but I don't think this thought is crazy.
Being the MOST accountable person when it comes to results, while being like the FOURTH most in-charge person...that seems like a raw deal to me.
(06-20-2021, 01:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone who thinks a 22 year old kid should be the most mature person on the team is dead wrong. As good as Luka is at playing basketball he is still a 22 year old kid. So please stop trying to turn him into something he is not (a 30 year vet) and rather bring in a couple of vets to steer the ship the right way. Sort of what Atlanta (Bogi, Gallo, Rondo - Williams) or Phoenix (CP3, bunch of exception money vets) did.
Absolutely!
I wish we knew who made the call not to bring Barea back for this season. THAT is the person who should be gone, imo.
(06-20-2021, 01:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]There was one predraft rumor Luka is a Diva and not liked by teammates. Nothing like that was heard in Europe. I just discussed with a bunch of friends on Friday and no one thinks the report is (was) true. Sure we are Luka homers but also follow basketball a lot so someone might hear something if there was real fire behind.
There was no report of Luka being a Diva since he came to US. Sure he wants to win so he complained over some decisions he thought were wrong. Is that being a Diva? I don't think so. Does he perhaps complains too much? Might be, but sure he always took (public) accountability.
All in all Luka is a 22 year old kid. Anyone who thinks it is wise to give all the power to such a kid is wrong. I don't think Luka has any problem with anyone as long as he sees the person knows what he is doing. He is not here to be the coach or GM, he is here to play basketball.
Anyone who thinks a 22 year old kid should be the most mature person on the team is dead wrong. As good as Luka is at playing basketball he is still a 22 year old kid. So please stop trying to turn him into something he is not (a 30 year vet) and rather bring in a couple of vets to steer the ship the right way. Sort of what Atlanta (Bogi, Gallo, Rondo - Williams) or Phoenix (CP3, bunch of exception money vets) did.
Luka apparently did have issues with RC and also mocked RC as to whether RC or Bob was in charge. Whether we agree with everything RC did or not, he was a championship coach who was widely respected for his basketball mind. If that was not good enough for a 22 year old, which coach will be?
Even if you put everything else aside as heresy , Luka came out of shape. There is no debate on that. He also put very little effort on defense. He seemed to get better a little bit over the season, but part of his 4th quarter struggles in the playoffs probably had a lot to do with his fitness. Let us not forget that a 22 year old came out of shape.
So to me it is irrelevant what Luka was in Europe or not. Things change and going from the possibility of being the next great star before he got to the NBA to actually realizing that and getting widespread acclaim, are two different things. He is a great talent but there are definite signs of immaturity there that he has to address. We don’t need to go and check his past when that evidence is right there in front of us. I said the same thing about KP when the Mavs got him and everyone here was saying how the Knicks were a dumpster fire and that’s why KP wanted out of there. I said then that whatever the past evidence with the Knicks were, they did go out of their way to placate KP and the way he treated them was not correct. We saw KP’s pouting this year. I see similar signs with Luka. He needs to change.
Is coaching Luka Doncic, who will be best player in the league for the next decade, a nightmare? Yeah totally. I´d really rather have the Indiana job.
Was this an attempt to beat the Porzingis for Simmons-thread for most obvious answer?
(06-20-2021, 02:26 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Is coaching Luka Doncic, who will be best player in the league for the next decade, a nightmare? Yeah totally.
Well, "nightmare" is a strong word, and obviously misused in this situation. That's where the "take culture" steps in.
I DO feel like if I were a coach, I wouldn't enjoy working for Mark Cuban. Straight up. That's my opinion. I think he's a joke.
(06-20-2021, 02:18 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]Luka apparently did have issues with RC and also mocked RC as to whether RC or Bob was in charge. Whether we agree with everything RC did or not, he was a championship coach who was widely respected for his basketball mind. If that was not good enough for a 22 year old, which coach will be?
Even if you put everything else aside as heresy , Luka came out of shape. There is no debate on that. He also put very little effort on defense. He seemed to get better a little bit over the season, but part of his 4th quarter struggles in the playoffs probably had a lot to do with his fitness. Let us not forget that a 22 year old came out of shape.
So to me it is irrelevant what Luka was in Europe or not. Things change and going from the possibility of being the next great star before he got to the NBA to actually realizing that and getting widespread acclaim, are two different things. He is a great talent but there are definite signs of immaturity there that he has to address. We don’t need to go and check his past when that evidence is right there in front of us. I said the same thing about KP when the Mavs got him and everyone here was saying how the Knicks were a dumpster fire and that’s why KP wanted out of there. I said then that whatever the past evidence with the Knicks were, they did go out of their way to placate KP and the way he treated them was not correct. We saw KP’s pouting this year. I see similar signs with Luka. He needs to change.
The out of shape thing. Widely overblown imho. Firstly Luka also came in with widely improved skills (mid range for example), so noone can say he didn't work during offseason. Secondly it was the first time it happened and there were objective explanations given. Luka also never said it was ok.
The overpublicized Bob comment to Rick. Reports say Luka didn't respect Bob. Reporters say Carlisle obliged to Bob (sometimes? Many times?) because he thought Bob has power - Carlisle doing something he didn't believe in to oblige Bob. So was Luka comment not correct? Carlisle would lose my respect if he was doing strange decisions just to appease a guy named Bob. Championship winning coach should never demote himself to listen to a guy named Bob. If the reports are correct.
As for the maturity - Luka is a 22 year old kid, I said that. Why are you expecting a 22 year old to be most mature person? He will get there, he will grow up. Until then you have to help him with wise man around him.
The out of shape thing - the problem is if he comes out of shape again. But I fully expect him to come in top/best shape. Physical preparation and free throws are main tasks he has to work on. Rest is awesome.
First off, no body should watch these shock jock shows BUT for those who actually listened, and out of respect for the good intentions OP, Shannon is pro Luka and declares DAL as a very desirable destination for any HC. No brainer there, 22-year old top 5 player locked in for several more years. There is nowhere else to go but up.
Worst case scenario, you make the playoffs and get knocked out of the first round every year like 1-trick-Rick, which many fans were cool with and praised Carlisle every year for it. What potential head coach wouldn't sign up for that kind of unconditional love?
I don't buy into the Cuban the GM theory like many fans do but for those who dislike Skip, he actually agrees with you. Says he is worse than Jerry Jones.
Is Luka a Diva? Skip accuses Luka of this, and we all know he is a known Mavs hater who says Ginobli was better than Dirk. But only time will truly answer that question. I do not see any glaring Diva-ness from Luka thus far but it is clear to me the Harden/Westbrook style ball needs to be alleviated.