2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[TXBamanut]

Perhaps the way Carlisle treated Green this year 1) was reasonable and 2) will be effective. I understand the whole concern about not wanting to calcify bad habits in a young player. But the optics and present and future team needs indicated that Green should have played a lot more, and his minutes distribution over the course of the year looks an awful lot like an "eff you" from RC to whoever made the decision to draft him (hmmm, who was that again?).

There's a few things that Carlisle did this last year that looked like a big "eff you" to someone...

[mvossman]

Is this where we flip Dan’s suggestion around and sign Batum for the MLE and trade JRich for McConnell/Caruso/Satoransky (my addition)?

Let me start by agreeing with Omahen that a simple over the cap scenario that involves THJ, JRich trade and MLE would be very disappointing.  An exception (which was my example in the original post several pages ago) was an S&T for Kawhi giving up KP.  That would eat up 9 mil in cap, and might make it more reasonable to operate over the cap.  In that case,  Kawhi is your 3/4 and you are using the MLE to get a center (Noel or Theis).

I like Caruso, and probably would take him in a JRich trade, but why would LA do it?  They have his bird rights.  That is why I am focusing on S&T scenarios with cap teams.  If the player is better than nothing, they might as well do it, especially for only one year.

I think life will be a lot simpler if JRich opts out and we operate under the cap.

[ItsGoTime]

Let me start by agreeing with Omahen that a simple over the cap scenario that involves THJ, JRich trade and MLE would be very disappointing.  An exception (which was my example in the original post several pages ago) was an S&T for Kawhi giving up KP.  That would eat up 9 mil in cap, and might make it more reasonable to operate over the cap.  In that case,  Kawhi is your 3/4 and you are using the MLE to get a center (Noel or Theis).

I like Caruso, and probably would take him in a JRich trade, but why would LA do it?  They have his bird rights.  That is why I am focusing on S&T scenarios with cap teams.  If the player is better than nothing, they might as well do it, especially for only one year.

I think life will be a lot simpler if JRich opts out and we operate under the cap.

I’m going to assume that if we do a few small moves this offseason that a good return was not in the cards yet for KP. I think a full reshaping of the team hinges on that. I’m also going to assume JRich opts in, cause everyone wants to pay to get rid of him, which if that is the thinking around the league, he’s better off getting more money for the 1 year than signing for a long term contract (I believe he will most likely bet on himself that he can at least play up to that $11M amount).


That is not what I’d like to happen, but I think it is the most likely scenario. BTW, might be a better scenario that JRich opts in, plays well and is a TDL or midseason trade piece that gets a disgruntled star. 

I think if little happens this offseason, we will be pretty active at the TDL. So I’m not fully worried if nothing happens right away. Would love it, not expecting it.

[mvossman]

I’m going to assume that if we do a few small moves this offseason that a good return was not in the cards yet for KP. I think a full reshaping of the team hinges on that. I’m also going to assume JRich opts in, cause everyone wants to pay to get rid of him, which if that is the thinking around the league, he’s better off getting more money for the 1 year than signing for a long term contract (I believe he will most likely bet on himself that he can at least play up to that $11M amount).


That is not what I’d like to happen, but I think it is the most likely scenario. BTW, might be a better scenario that JRich opts in, plays well and is a TDL or midseason trade piece that gets a disgruntled star. 

I think if little happens this offseason, we will be pretty active at the TDL. So I’m not fully worried if nothing happens right away. Would love it, not expecting it.

While I think there is a good chance they don't move KP (because they don't like the market) I will be really surprised if they don't make a big move.  I'm almost sure they will try.  I think the most likely outcome is that they Money whip DeRozan, as he is one of the few big targets that does not currently have a likely destination.

[ThisIStheYear]

Agree on RC but as was mentioned in the Ford podcast. Most coaches are because they are trying to win the max amount of games. Even the best rookies rarely are win now impact players and looking at the Mavs picks of the last 10 years I don´t see a lot of misses that turned into great players after leaving the Mavs.

Thing is that Kidd had similar problems in Milwaukee. According to the rumors Jabari Parker and Kidd were not on speaking terms when he was fired. Brogdon was randomly benched for the entire first half of a game. No explanation given. Deandre Liggins starting over him.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2227...ukee-bucks

He didn't mind confrontation, or making players uncomfortable -- to the detriment of morale in the end. He once benched Antetokounmpo for a breach in practice, and kept Malcolm Brogdon on the pine for almost an entire half without explanation. Some players eventually craved more communication and support.

Kidd’s coaching career really has been uniquely bizarre.  I don’t like the hire, but have to admit it has a wide range of outcomes, from stunning success to run out of town at midseason. I think the Mavs are counting too much on the Leopard changing its spots though, and this is a bad and unnecessary gamble.

[khaled1987]

Do we know that plan powder was Cuban’s idea and not Keith Grant’s

Considering how he talked about it from day 1, how he understands new CBA better than anyone, I would say we should be pretty sure it was Cuban thing. 
Especially considering there were many reports about Cuban being one of the loudest voices among the owners during the 2011 lockout where he wanted less money and less spending from teams. 

Kidd is downgrade over Carlisle for sure, but Carlisle was a prickly pear when it came to rookies, trades or other acquisitions.

If Chad Ford is accurate about what he said on podcasts, doesn't seem like Kidd is an improvement over Rick in the rookies and trade departments.
He was an asshole about who he wants, and he was always about win now mode rather than rookies. 
Bucks fans barely have anything positive to say about him tbh, they seem to have hated whole heartedly. 

But in his defense, we aren't signing Kidd based on what he did as a coach but more of an assistant coach of a successful coach (who is a champion) in a very competent organization during that period. We are hoping he is more of a Monte Williams.

[ClutchDirk]

https://media.giphy.com/media/CoejwVQBgdlKg/giphy.gif

[ItsGoTime]

Do we know that plan powder was Cuban’s idea and not Keith Grant’s

Considering how he talked about it from day 1, how he understands new CBA better than anyone, I would say we should be pretty sure it was Cuban thing. 
Especially considering there were many reports about Cuban being one of the loudest voices among the owners during the 2011 lockout where he wanted less money and less spending from teams

Who helped him understand it better than anyone?

[cow]

If Chad Ford is accurate about what he said on podcasts, doesn't seem like Kidd is an improvement over Rick in the rookies and trade departments.
He was an asshole about who he wants, and he was always about win now mode rather than rookies. 
Bucks fans barely have anything positive to say about him tbh, they seem to have hated whole heartedly. 

But in his defense, we aren't signing Kidd based on what he did as a coach but more of an assistant coach of a successful coach (who is a champion) in a very competent organization during that period. We are hoping he is more of a Monte Williams.

I need to start drinking again.

[Branduil]

Gonna go back to my original offseason plan. Reggie Jackson + John Collins. The best part of this plan is both guys are extremely gettable... Atlanta probably won't be able to pay Collins max, and the Clippers literally can't pay Reggie Jackson as much as he can get elsewhere. This plan also doesn't require lots of improbably trades.

Current cap space plus Maxi and Burke's contracts outgoing would get us to about $44 million in space. I think that's enough for both guys. Reggie Jackson would basically be THJ plus what we expected of JRich combined into one player. Collins is like Maxi plus Powell combined into a better player.

We don't need to trade KP to add both of these guys, although if we could do a KP for Adams trade that would give us space to also re-sign THJ.

[Scott41theMavs]

Gonna go back to my original offseason plan. Reggie Jackson + John Collins. The best part of this plan is both guys are extremely gettable... Atlanta probably won't be able to pay Collins max, and the Clippers literally can't pay Reggie Jackson as much as he can get elsewhere. This plan also doesn't require lots of improbably trades.

Current cap space plus Maxi and Burke's contracts outgoing would get us to about $44 million in space. I think that's enough for both guys. Reggie Jackson would basically be THJ plus what we expected of JRich combined into one player. Collins is like Maxi plus Powell combined into a better player.

We don't need to trade KP to add both of these guys, although if we could do a KP for Adams trade that would give us space to also re-sign THJ.

I love this much more than what the Mavs will likely actually do.

[cow]

I love this much more than what the Mavs will likely actually do.

You'll get Oubre and OPJ and you'll like it, mister.

[Mavs03]

Gonna go back to my original offseason plan. Reggie Jackson + John Collins. The best part of this plan is both guys are extremely gettable... Atlanta probably won't be able to pay Collins max, and the Clippers literally can't pay Reggie Jackson as much as he can get elsewhere. This plan also doesn't require lots of improbably trades.

Current cap space plus Maxi and Burke's contracts outgoing would get us to about $44 million in space. I think that's enough for both guys. Reggie Jackson would basically be THJ plus what we expected of JRich combined into one player. Collins is like Maxi plus Powell combined into a better player.

We don't need to trade KP to add both of these guys, although if we could do a KP for Adams trade that would give us space to also re-sign THJ.

I would love that offseason.  And I would throw the rMLE at Bobby Portis.

Luka
Jackson
DFS
Collins
KP

Brunson
Terry
Green
Portis
Powell

You have your secondary ball handler in Jackson.  Pick and roll partner in Collins.  When KP needs to rest, you slide Collins at C and Portis could easily start at PF.  A lot of trust in Green and Terry, but when you're the 18th and 31st picks of the 2020 draft respectively, you need to contribute in some way.  Hopefully, Kidd can unlock their potential.

[SwisherPrice]

I think the Clips just ended up getting as much out of Reggie Jackson as any team could. He said he was close to retiring before they convinced him to come back because it was the right fit for him. Either he re-signs with them or he gets paid elsewhere and disappears again. 

His playoff run reminded me of what Nick Van Exel did in 2003 - the veteran guard who provided the unexpected spark for a team that needed it. The Mavs sold high on him and traded him away and then he pretty much didn't do much for the remainder of his career.

[cow]

I think the Clips just ended up getting as much out of Reggie Jackson as any team could. He said he was close to retiring before they convinced him to come back because it was the right fit for him. Either he re-signs with them or he gets paid elsewhere and disappears again. 

His playoff run reminded me of what Nick Van Exel did in 2003 - the veteran guard who provided the unexpected spark for a team that needed it. The Mavs sold high on him and traded him away and then he pretty much didn't do much for the remainder of his career.

That's where I am at as well.  It also helps that he got to play against our perimeter defense.  I wouldn't want to invest any kind of years or big dollars in him.

[ItsGoTime]

That's where I am at as well.  It also helps that he got to play against our perimeter defense.  I wouldn't want to invest any kind of years or big dollars in him.

I was looking at him, Portis and Batum as just over MLE money to outbid all the teams that can offer MLE money.

[Branduil]

That's where I am at as well.  It also helps that he got to play against our perimeter defense.  I wouldn't want to invest any kind of years or big dollars in him.

You're acting like he didn't also put up big numbers against Utah and Phoenix, and that was without Kawhi.

[cow]

You're acting like he didn't also put up big numbers against Utah and Phoenix, and that was without Kawhi.

No, I am not.

[Mavs2021]

I was looking at him, Portis and Batum as just over MLE money to outbid all the teams that can offer MLE money.

We need a legit #2 and #3. There is no point to signing Portis and Batum right now. Those are finishing moves. They are players for teams, who have an established big three. Our best case is that we have a #1 in Luka and a #3 in Porzingis (on a max contract with injury risks always looming). All our focus should be on getting the #2 immediately, or making moves that get us closer to a #2 at the next TDL/summer, which means asset acquisition.

Right now Luka and DFS are the only fixed spots and even next summer, they only account for $42M in total salaries. Everybody else besides Porzingis becomes an expiring contract next summer or is on a rookie deal. So there is enough breathing space under the cap to make major moves. Of course that flexibility goes out of the window, if we start handing out 48/4 to players like Portis and Batum, plus 80/4 to Norman Powell.

[Branduil]

You're acting like he didn't also put up big numbers against Utah and Phoenix, and that was without Kawhi.

No, I am not.

You said "it helps that he got to play against our perimeter defense" but he also did the same thing to other teams. I'm also not sure what makes LAC uniquely different from Dallas considering how desperately we need any kind of secondary ballhandler.