2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[cjeter24]

After the past failed experiments to get another star in RFA AKA as the Harden move, explain to me why we should continue to try that move? 
I'm just not an fan of overpaying for non elite talent and hoping for the best. It seems teams are always trying to find the next Harden and that's a complete fluke.

[cow]

One quick note:

If Kidd WANTS THT then I am all in. He would KNOW.

[ItsGoTime]

He WAS! 

@"Kammrath" and I were literally the only ones here who wanted him. People made fun of us.

I was a part of wanting Wood as well. I HATED saving money for Giannis and wanted us to upgrade our starting unit as much as we could. I wanted 2 starting players every offseason for the last 3 years.

[Kammrath]

I was a part of wanting Wood as well.

[ItsGoTime]

I think I wanted Grant first then Wood. So I wanted to be Grant(ed) Wood.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Assuming the Pelicans really let Ball walk (for whatever weird reason), then Brunson + Powell for Bledsoe might not be a bad idea, especially if you operate over the cap.


Powell 11.1 / 11.1
Brunson 1.8 / 3.4 (caphold)

Bledsoe 18.1 / 19.3 (3.9 guaranteed)

Pelicans get a younger veteran PG to compete with Lewis for the starting spot.

Count me out on that. Bledsoe never shows up when needed. That's why the Bucks pulled the trigger on Holiday. In hindsight, the Bucks should have kept Brogdan instead of signing Bled to that extension.

[Branduil]

No way would I take on Bledsoe for Powell+Brunson AND lose cap space. N.O. would have to give us major draft compensation for that.

[david75090]

No way would I take on Bledsoe for Powell+Brunson AND lose cap space. N.O. would have to give us major draft compensation for that.

Is a trade for Bledsoe because the Mavs would want Bledsoe? Personally, I think he's just-a-guy. Doesn't move the needle for me. Wouldn't look at trading for Bledsoe as a positive move.

[DanSchwartzgan]

He's common-law on that team already. No backing out now.

Some people may roll their eyes at this, but hear me out. I personally I think of THT as sorta similar to Chandler Parsons when he was in Houston. Not that he's a similar player, but that he's in a similar situation -- a really good young role player who you're tempted to throw money at based on his potential.

I’m going to need clarification Tyler.  Am I married to my past posts or to Cow in this arrangement?  Yes, Kamm, a Kidd endorsement would go a long way…same with Caruso.  Yes Killer, I think that is well put.  I do like the strategy part.  I think there are lots of ways to improve the roster, so I’m not married to any one player.  It needs to be someone I like though.  I mean I’m not going to spend any time on Bledsoe for Powell and Brunson

To be clear on THT, I’m all in if he’s a secondary addition.  I think we need at least two targets since we are presumably losing Hardaway and JRich.  You’d like both to be improvements on what we had.  So, the THJ replacement uses the bulk of the cap room and has to be an upgrade.  The other either uses an opted in JRich as a trade chip or the rest of the space created by JRich opting out. Given what we got from JRich, we don’t need a ton of improvement.  Positional needs is very much up for debate and all is dependent on possible trades of KP, Brunson, Powell and Maxi.

THT is an odd one for me.  I’m usually much less an eye test guy and much more a stats guy.  Parsons was projectable based on what he had done in Houston.  Win Scores of 7 with way above league average shooting (at the time) wasn’t easy to come by.  THT does some things that are just eye popping at 20.  You put a .380 percentage on 3’s and you don’t need much else to have a $20mm guy.  I don’t want to pay $20mm and the path to getting him for $10-$12mm is pretty narrow.  So, I’m not optimistic.  But, there is a set of circumstances where I’d make an offer after securing our primary target.

[mvossman]

My grade adjustments in bold.

My offseason grades.  

If there are no major trades (including KP) then the goal should be to get two starters to replace JRich/THJ and Maxi.  Most scenarios involve operating under the cap with 34 in space.  In most cases the main choice will start roughly in low 20s to provide enough cap for second player (in parentheses) to outbid the MLE teams.  The second player is who I think fits best with the first.

Kawhi  A+
Ball (Green)  A
Conley (Noel)  A-
Collins (Jackson) B+
Powell (Batum)  B
Lowry (Noel) B-
DeRozan (Green) C+
Fournier (Green) C
THJ (Batum) C-
Dinwiddie (Barton) D

[chaparral]

I’m going to need clarification Tyler.  Am I married to my past posts or to Cow in this arrangement?  Yes, Kamm, a Kidd endorsement would go a long way…same with Caruso.  Yes Killer, I think that is well put.  I do like the strategy part.  I think there are lots of ways to improve the roster, so I’m not married to any one player.  It needs to be someone I like though.  I mean I’m not going to spend any time on Bledsoe for Powell and Brunson

To be clear on THT, I’m all in if he’s a secondary addition.  I think we need at least two targets since we are presumably losing Hardaway and JRich.  You’d like both to be improvements on what we had.  So, the THJ replacement uses the bulk of the cap room and has to be an upgrade.  The other either uses an opted in JRich as a trade chip or the rest of the space created by JRich opting out. Given what we got from JRich, we don’t need a ton of improvement.  Positional needs is very much up for debate and all is dependent on possible trades of KP, Brunson, Powell and Maxi.

THT is an odd one for me.  I’m usually much less an eye test guy and much more a stats guy.  Parsons was projectable based on what he had done in Houston.  Win Scores of 7 with way above league average shooting (at the time) wasn’t easy to come by.  THT does some things that are just eye popping at 20.  You put a .380 percentage on 3’s and you don’t need much else to have a $20mm guy.  I don’t want to pay $20mm and the path to getting him for $10-$12mm is pretty narrow.  So, I’m not optimistic.  But, there is a set of circumstances where I’d make an offer after securing our primary target.

THJ and JRich combined had 3PA of 12.1 per game.  Is it important for there replacements to at leased match that 3PA of 12.1?

[Tyler]

I’m going to need clarification Tyler.  Am I married to my past posts or to Cow in this arrangement?

Just sayin' that you've been on team THT long enough that you can't back out now.

Either via direct trade or indirect signing, I'd absolutely take him as a potential upgrade to JRich. I say "potential" because I do think there's risk with expecting too much. But I do recognize the possible talent.

[DanSchwartzgan]

THJ and JRich combined had 3PA of 12.1 per game.  Is it important for there replacements to at leased match that 3PA of 12.1?

Probably.

[DrMav]

THJ and JRich combined had 3PA of 12.1 per game.  Is it important for there replacements to at leased match that 3PA of 12.1?

Kidd coached teams have not been big 3PT shooting teams so far (Brooklyn was highest at 11th most taken, but his Milwaukee teams were at the bottom of the league), but offenses around the league have changed a ton since then and of course personnel is different. 

Since we don't really know what the offensive strategy is going to be, I don't think you can totally predict how much of the missing shot volume has to be replaced. My guess is you have to replace some but not all, maybe 75% which would put you closer to middle of the pack, but still in the top half of the league.

[DanSchwartzgan]

My offseason grades.  

If there are no major trades (including KP) then the goal should be to get two starters to replace JRich/THJ and Maxi.  Most scenarios involve operating under the cap with 34 in space.  In most cases the main choice will start roughly in low 20s to provide enough cap for second player (in parentheses) to outbid the MLE teams.  The second player is who I think fits best with the first.

Kawhi  A+
Ball (Green)  A
Conley (Noel)  A-
Collins (Jackson) B+
Powell (Batum)  B
Lowry (Noel) B-
DeRozan (Green) C+
Fournier (Green) C
THJ (Batum) C-
Dinwiddie (Barton) D

I like this way of looking at it.  Too many combinations to account for all of them.  It looks like your grades are based heavily on the talent of the #1 target.

Are there any other guys similar to what you are envisioning Noel to be?  Theis?  

Is there a second option that makes Graham as the first option (at less money than the other #1’s) that gets you anything above a C?

If you got Ball or Conley and then traded for Oubre using JRich, is Oubre so bad that he drags down Ball to a C?  Same question with Dinwiddie as the second acquisition instead of the first.

Is there a fit for Holmes with KP here still or does that only work if KP is traded.

[ItsGoTime]

I think Portis can be a poor man’s Collins that doesn’t break the bank on our frontcourt, if we’re keeping KP. We could also use some of our bigs at that point to upgrade elsewhere (Powell/WCS/Kleber combined with someone else).

[mvossman]

I like this way of looking at it.  Too many combinations to account for all of them.  It looks like your grades are based heavily on the talent of the #1 target.

Are there any other guys similar to what you are envisioning Noel to be?  Theis?  

Is there a second option that makes Graham as the first option (at less money than the other #1’s) that gets you anything above a C?

If you got Ball or Conley and then traded for Oubre using JRich, is Oubre so bad that he drags down Ball to a C?  Same question with Dinwiddie as the second acquisition instead of the first.

Is there a fit for Holmes with KP here still or does that only work if KP is traded.

The grades are entirely based on the first guy.  The second guy is simply who I think the best fit of the (roughly) MLE level guys.  Part of the goal is to have at least one of the two be a younger (under 30) guy.

Graham should probably be on the list at probably a Fournier level.  Can't think of anyone out there that makes a big enough difference to add with him over the MLE guys (just not a lot of guys in the 15-18 range).  

I think Noel is right on the edge as far as playing 4 next to KP.  A big part of his draw is that he is young, he will be cheap, and he can fill in at center if we trade KP later.  I like Theis as an affordable big, but not sure if I want to pair him with KP.  Holmes is also on the edge, but he will be a lot more expensive.  If Graham is the best we can do as first option, a Graham/Holmes pairing might be closer to a B (because I like both players) but probably makes more sense if we trade KP (and possibly Brunson).

Oubre would be a full grade hit over any of the MLE candidates I have listed above.  Don't feel like he is a starter quality player.

Dinwiddie as the second option in JRich trade is more interesting.  I don't think he makes a lot of sense with Conley or Ball, but a Collins/Dinwiddie offseason would be adding a lot of young talent.  That would be crazy good offense, but not sure defense would be good enough to compete.

[Scott41theMavs]

12 days till the draft, 16 till free agency.

[TXBamanut]

Day 20...no "KP trading a top priority" from anyone of consequence, and yet, still the title of the thread....

Basically it's Kamm's top priority...and that's about it.

[TXBamanut]

https://twitter.com/mavsnationcp/status/...30561?s=21

He meant to say that trading KP was the top priority, but he slipped on a banana peel and accidentally said that....