2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[KillerLeft]

Please god. No Dinwiddie. 

Right there with you!

[SleepingHero]

Alright just because signing Dinwiddie is probably Marks wet dream (think about all that crypto that can be discussed!) lets see if I can try to piece together a wholly unrealistic offseason with all the rumors.

SnT Reddick (8mil for matching? Thats 175%) for Dinwiddie for 4/64 (start at 14 mil). 

Go over to the Jazz, convince them that JRich+Kleber are the guys they NEED to get over the hump. SnT them for Conley, starting at 23 mil. 

Finally go to the Heat. They apparently love THJ. I like some of their guys too, namely Dragic and Achiuwa. So THJ (4/84 starting at 18 mil?) for Dragic (MLE money) and Achiuwa. 

And since I'm on a roll, sleep deprived, and for whatever reason in love with Steven Adams, ask NOP if they want KP+Brunson for Brandon Ingram/Steven Adams.

Roll into next year with:
Luka/Dinwiddie/Burke
Conley/Dragic
Ingram/Green
DFS/Powell
Adams/Achiuwa/Boban

Super thin at 4, but sheesh our guard rotation would be otherworldly. Luka/Dinwiddie/Conley/Dragic. Thats a scary guard rotation. 

In fact, so scary that we can just sign a PF instead of signing Dinwiddie and execute all the other plans. So I end up back where I started. No Dinwiddie.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Alright just because signing Dinwiddie is probably Marks wet dream (think about all that crypto that can be discussed!) lets see if I can try to piece together a wholly unrealistic offseason with all the rumors.

SnT Reddick (8mil for matching? Thats 175%) for Dinwiddie for 4/64 (start at 14 mil). 

Go over to the Jazz, convince them that JRich+Kleber are the guys they NEED to get over the hump. SnT them for Conley, starting at 23 mil. 

Finally go to the Heat. They apparently love THJ. I like some of their guys too, namely Dragic and Achiuwa. So THJ (4/84 starting at 18 mil?) for Dragic (MLE money) and Achiuwa. 
 

I think your sleep deprivation is impacting your fantasy trading.  Brooklyn is hopelessly over the line and can't take Redick in a S&T.  I made the same oversight not that long ago.  You could do opted-in JRich for Dinwiddie.  

Also, Miami can easily generate $18mm of cap space for THJ and keep the holds on Nunn and Robinson by walking away from Dragic and Iggy.  I don't see a world in which they trade away Achiuwa for the right to do something they can already do without giving up Achiuwa.  If the answer is to operate over the cap to retain the MLE, I think there are other ways to do that.  I suspect Hardaway is Plan E for Miami and hopefully Dragic is Plan J for Dallas.

I do think there is some advantage to an opted-in JRich in terms of leveraging the off-season.  He can bring back a $16.6mm player which is more than his space allows.  Trading for him doesn't hard-cap the receiving team.  THJ can also provide leverage, but you can't send him to a team close to or over the line.  When you eliminate those teams and the ones with cap space to sign him outright, I'm struggling to find the obvious deal for him.

[mvossman]

Last season, before the injury, KP posted the second best defensive rating of his career. It just feels like a case of grass is always greener, to me.  Collins does shoot the 3 better, which is awesome, but if KP is healthy, he's better than Collins.

Actually, Collins does not shoot the 3 better.  He shoots a much smaller volume and only wide open shots.  KP shoots roughly same percentage from wide open, but he is also willing to take harder shots and hits them at a reasonable clip.  He is a significantly more valuable floor spacer than Collins, especially considering he is doing it from the 5 instead of the 4.

[SleepingHero]

I think your sleep deprivation is impacting your fantasy trading.  Brooklyn is hopelessly over the line and can't take Redick in a S&T.  I made the same oversight not that long ago.  You could do opted-in JRich for Dinwiddie.  

I can always count on Dan to rein in my pie in the sky ideas with grounded realism and measured takes. 

I agree it doesn't make much sense for Miami to trade Achiuwa given they have the room to sign THJ outright with 1 of Goran/Iggy leaving. 

To be fair the only guys I really want out of those flurry of trades are Conley, Adams, and Dragic. All of them I perceive as attainable without convoluted sign and trades. 

Maybe the Mavs could wrestle out a future first for compensation of taking on Adams!

[mvossman]

Dude, "defensive ratings" are not reliable measures of defensive effectiveness, they are "estimates" that don't really tell you what you need to know. I NEVER, EVER use that as a reference stat. 

I use Defensive On/Off....and occasionally something like the RAPTOR or LEBRON or RPM metrics.

I'm not a fan of using on/off.  It leaves so much context out.  I greatly prefer RPM which takes more context (opponents and teammates) into account.  In both cases you need a lot of sample (like ideally multiple years) to get a good value.  I agree that box score stats are less useful for defensive measurement (and I'm not a fan of defensive rating) but I do look at BPM as a good baseline as it does not require the volume of sample that on/off related stats do.

Also, I feel like their was a basic misunderstanding between you and Bama on this.  Maybe I am confused, but I thought Bama, when referencing last year, was referring to last season, but you are providing stats for this season.  You can easily make the argument that KP was a better defender than Collins last season.  He was a quality rim protector while Collins was miscast as a center that year and struggled protecting the rim.

This season there is not any question.  KP was struggling all year with his mobility and Collins greatly benefitted having Capella behind him.

[mvossman]

I can always count on Dan to rein in my pie in the sky ideas with grounded realism and measured takes. 

I agree it doesn't make much sense for Miami to trade Achiuwa given they have the room to sign THJ outright with 1 of Goran/Iggy leaving. 

To be fair the only guys I really want out of those flurry of trades are Conley, Adams, and Dragic. All of them I perceive as attainable without convoluted sign and trades. 

Maybe the Mavs could wrestle out a future first for compensation of taking on Adams!

Don't get the interest in Dragic.  He made some sense two years ago (and we should have pulled that trigger when we could have) but he will be 36 and is showing signs of serious decline.

[SleepingHero]

Don't get the interest in Dragic

My main interest in getting Dragic lies in the intangibles he brings. Not only does he have a fantastic relationship with Luka and already established chemistry, but he also is a vet that knows how to win. This team sorely missed a JJB type that could lead locker rooms. 

I view Dragic much in the same mold. Also again, the established chemistry with Luka cannot be overlooked. I don't see him as a 20ppg guy anymore and odds are he'll only get 15-18mpg, but it's the presence of him behind the scenes that I think will pay off 10 fold. 

Further he's not super washed up. He can still put up 10-12ppg on solid shooting and can run an offense.

[TXBamanut]

Actually, Collins does not shoot the 3 better.  He shoots a much smaller volume and only wide open shots.  KP shoots roughly same percentage from wide open, but he is also willing to take harder shots and hits them at a reasonable clip.  He is a significantly more valuable floor spacer than Collins, especially considering he is doing it from the 5 instead of the 4.

Excellent points.  I didn't think of that.  I actually didn't considered the floor spacing angle in this and just concentrated on simple percentages.

[Scott41theMavs]

Collins greatly benefitted having Collins behind him.

Yes, having two of oneself is always a great advantage.

[mvossman]

Yes, having two of oneself is always a great advantage.

Crap.  Fixed it.

[VintagePejav2]

The Mavs are trying to construct a roster that can compete next season and allows Kawhi to (most likely) sit out for the entirety of it. Expect a significant roster overhaul - and yes, bringing back Nerlens is a real possibility. Mark loved Noel, remember the $70M contract offer? On Kawhi, it is this simple folks - he wants to play with Luka. I don’t think it has fully registered with some that Luka is one of the new faces of the league - he’s the 2K cover athlete for a reason.

[VintagePejav2]

Nico and JKidd are aligned: the Mavs need to get better defensively and they need to add “experienced talent.” I think you’re going to hear this message tomorrow morning. I would not expect a firm commitment on KP’s future with the team, which will raise eyebrows for sure. Kidd doesn’t believe that Porzingis can recover his defensive mobility nor does he believe KP can accept a lesser role offensively.

I am not pulling anyone’s leg here.

[KillerLeft]

Nico and JKidd are aligned: the Mavs need to get better defensively and they need to add “experienced talent.” I think you’re going to hear this message tomorrow morning. I would not expect a firm commitment on KP’s future with the team, which will raise eyebrows for sure. Kidd doesn’t believe that Porzingis can recover his defensive mobility nor does he believe KP can accept a lesser role offensively.

I am not pulling anyone’s leg here.

You should change your name to NBASupes.

[cow]

Nico and JKidd are aligned: the Mavs need to get better defensively and they need to add “experienced talent.” I think you’re going to hear this message tomorrow morning. I would not expect a firm commitment on KP’s future with the team, which will raise eyebrows for sure. Kidd doesn’t believe that Porzingis can recover his defensive mobility nor does he believe KP can accept a lesser role offensively.

I am not pulling anyone’s leg here.

Pull my finger.

[SleepingHero]

The Mavs are trying to construct a roster that can compete next season and allows Kawhi to (most likely) sit out for the entirety of it. Expect a significant roster overhaul - and yes, bringing back Nerlens is a real possibility. Mark loved Noel, remember the $70M contract offer? On Kawhi, it is this simple folks - he wants to play with Luka. I don’t think it has fully registered with some that Luka is one of the new faces of the league - he’s the 2K cover athlete for a reason.

It's hilarious reading these and then looking at your title of "Spinner of Tall Tales"

[Mavs2021]

Nico and JKidd are aligned: the Mavs need to get better defensively and they need to add “experienced talent.” I think you’re going to hear this message tomorrow morning. I would not expect a firm commitment on KP’s future with the team, which will raise eyebrows for sure. Kidd doesn’t believe that Porzingis can recover his defensive mobility nor does he believe KP can accept a lesser role offensively.

I am not pulling anyone’s leg here.

Confirmed VintagePeja is Mark Cuban. Every time we tell him how idiotic his insider rumours/ideas are, the smartest man in the room goes....

[cow]

Confirmed VintagePeja is Mark Cuban. Every time we tell him how idiotic his insider rumours/ideas are, the smartest man in the room goes....

[VintagePejav2]

Confirmed VintagePeja is Mark Cuban. Every time we tell him how idiotic his insider rumours/ideas are, the smartest man in the room goes....

Thanks for the compliments, 2012!

[Hypermav]

Nico and JKidd are aligned: the Mavs need to get better defensively and they need to add “experienced talent.” I think you’re going to hear this message tomorrow morning. I would not expect a firm commitment on KP’s future with the team, which will raise eyebrows for sure. Kidd doesn’t believe that Porzingis can recover his defensive mobility nor does he believe KP can accept a lesser role offensively.

I am not pulling anyone’s leg here.

Kidd will be too worried about the Cato or McMahon trap question of "have you stopped beating your wife".

I really do hope we get some substantial comments about the roster.