2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[DanSchwartzgan]

I keep playing in my mind Conley vs. Derozan.  I think going down the Lowry route is a bad decision.   I really like his fit here but he is a little older.   

Let’s say for a minute you conclude DeRozan is the right fit.  No KP trade, you just create room and sign him.

Here is my question.  I think Dinwiddie in 19/20 was a discount version of DeRozan.  For the age difference, the contract difference (maybe $10mm?) and the cost in terms of personnel (probably THJ or some equivalent player), would you take Dinwiddie’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting vs DeRozan’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting.

I see creating room for Dinwiddie (either by direct trade of JRich to Brooklyn or trading him for space or opt out) as being much easier to create than doing the same for DeRozan.  If you do Dinwiddie for JRich, you still have the THJ bullet and the MLE.  Since JRich added basically nothing, you’d consider Dinwiddie and the MLE guy as additions.

[Scott41theMavs]

That would give you 2 premium ball handlers who can stagger their time and Ball can be taught by Kidd how to feed Luka in his spots so he can get his go to shots and penetration opportunities without carry the whole offensive responsibility...last 5 minutes Luka will not be worn out...

Also get me Collins to go with Ball...

Trade KP for air and you have the money to go after both. Bye-bye THJ and the full MLE if you go that route, but you might be able to pick up some nice players on tiny deals or trade some of our other, more expendable guys for good players. Brunson for Robinson? 

Luka
Lonzo
DFS
Collins
Robinson

Looks like a stout starting lineup to me. To be filled out with vet min guys, rMLE, BAE (think you have that regardless of cap room use), and whatever is left after trades etc. 

Note: That's a full-on pipe dream, because I don't think Ball wants to come here (although if we're the only ones willing to max him out, he probably would), and I doubt both that the Hawks would let Collins go and that he would want to leave. In any event, you're looking at three young players at $90 mil a year. Better get the supporting cast right.

[Mavs03]

Trade KP for air and you have the money to go after both. Bye-bye THJ and the full MLE if you go that route, but you might be able to pick up some nice players on tiny deals or trade some of our other, more expendable guys for good players. Brunson for Robinson? 

Luka
Lonzo
DFS
Collins
Robinson

Looks like a stout starting lineup to me. To be filled out with vet min guys, rMLE, BAE (think you have that regardless of cap room use), and whatever is left after trades etc. 

Note: That's a full-on pipe dream, because I don't think Ball wants to come here (although if we're the only ones willing to max him out, he probably would), and I doubt both that the Hawks would let Collins go and that he would want to leave. In any event, you're looking at three young players at $90 mil a year. Better get the supporting cast right.

I think with the addition of Kidd and the fact that the Mavs need a secondary ball handler who can play defense and hit 3s, Lonzo Ball would be a terrific addition.  He fits our timeline.  The question is does Lonzo want to come here.  I will say having Kidd and Nico at the helm, it helps our chances not only with Lonzo but other free agents.

I'm in the camp of keeping KP.  As far as trading Brunson, why not Tyler Herro?  Brunson and THJ for Herro and Dragic?  Dragic and THJ being a sign and trade.

Luka
Ball
DFS
Kleber
KP

All 5 guys in that lineup can hit 3s.

Bench:

Dragic
Terry
Green
Powell
MLE

The bench needs some firepower but with the MLE we can get someone of value.

[SwisherPrice]

Not a big fan of Dinwiddie. If we were going to give big money to a ball-handling guard who isn't a great shooter, I'd rather go get Schroder because at least he can play some defense. He wouldn't be my top choice to upgrade guard either but given the choice of two, it's a no-brainer for me

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/basketbllnews/status...2542724101

[omahen]

This is an interesting idea. I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown, but otherwise good idea.

https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1408811389372747787

[Hypermav]

Just so Luka shoves the old man out of the way for a rebound.  Then release him.

[KillerLeft]

I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown

Agreed. Powell money, guaranteed until 2023, for a guy who literally can't play. 

What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.

[omahen]

What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.

Dan made a nice comparison - he is a poor man DeRozan. For me he is in a large second group of FA that are not stars but good players, each having their pluses and minuses. So with guys like Schroeder, Oubre, Fournier, Barton and our own THJ as examples. I would be dissapointed if he is the main offseason signing. But I can see scenarios where signing him would be positive. Although I am not really convinced BKN would be enamored with JRich in a SnT

[Chicagojk]

Let’s say for a minute you conclude DeRozan is the right fit.  No KP trade, you just create room and sign him.

Here is my question.  I think Dinwiddie in 19/20 was a discount version of DeRozan.  For the age difference, the contract difference (maybe $10mm?) and the cost in terms of personnel (probably THJ or some equivalent player), would you take Dinwiddie’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting vs DeRozan’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting.

I see creating room for Dinwiddie (either by direct trade of JRich to Brooklyn or trading him for space or opt out) as being much easier to create than doing the same for DeRozan.  If you do Dinwiddie for JRich, you still have the THJ bullet and the MLE.  Since JRich added basically nothing, you’d consider Dinwiddie and the MLE guy as additions.

Hmm...nice comparison between the two.  I hadn't thought of that.   To be honest, I need to do a deeper dive on Dinwiddie this summer.    My initial thoughts are the Mavs need to improve their 2-4 best players on the team (On a side note, last offseason I was thinking they had to improve their 3-4 best players on the team  ).     I don't know if Dinwiddie improves on our 2-4 best player on a championship team.   With the warts Derozan has, I still want him on the court in the last five minutes of a playoff game.   Not sure I would say the same about Dinwiddie, if that makes sense.

[Tyler]

This is an interesting idea. I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown, but otherwise good idea.

https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1408811389372747787

Meh. It's an interesting idea, but I see several problems:

1. It's not a rumor. It's a clearly a trade proposal by a Nets homer.
2. Brooklyn gets the best player in the deal and dumps the worst contract (KP is more expensive but he actually plays. DAJ has been a healthy DNP since early May).
3. Brooklyn only gives up one player of any value that they have under contract. If Dallas likes Dinwiddie they can just sign him. 
4. A trade involving a '21 draft pick and a S&T doesn't make any sense timing-wise.
5. Why include Maxi and DAJ? They're not required to make the deal legal, and that's a big negative move for Dallas. That just reeks of a Brooklyn fan getting greedy.
6. With the way he's treated in the NY media, are we sure KP wants to go to Brooklyn?

If you reduce it to Dinwiddie/Harris for KP, I could maybe see it. That's two productive players for one and leaves room for other upgrades. Picks would also be great, but see #4. And even if one likes the idea, I could just as easily see Dallas signing Dinwiddie as a FA and trading KP for something better than Joe Harris.

[Hypermav]

If the Mavs get a FRP (let's say Brunson for example) this year, does that open up our future picks for a package with KP?

[Tyler]

If the Mavs get a FRP (let's say Brunson for example) this year, does that open up our future picks for a package with KP?

Not really. But if you get a FRP in '23 instead of '21, then you're wide open for trading future picks as soon as this draft is over.

[omahen]

If you reduce it to Dinwiddie/Harris for KP, I could maybe see it. That's two productive players for one and leaves room for other upgrades. Picks would also be great, but see #4. And even if one likes the idea, I could just as easily see Dallas signing Dinwiddie as a FA and trading KP for something better than Joe Harris.

Of course it depends on how much value KP has and how solvable his situation with Mavs is. I would certainly remove Jordan. This way you switch two starters for two other starters while keeping all of cap space for PF and C. My valuation of Kleber is low. He is good for regular season but very limited in playoffs.

[Omega_Supreme]

Agreed. Powell money, guaranteed until 2023, for a guy who literally can't play. 

What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.

I love Dinwiddie, his 3 Point shooting worries me quite a bit but he is an aggressive guy that can score in isolation and create. Both of those skillsets are major needs.

---

Agreed. Powell money, guaranteed until 2023, for a guy who literally can't play. 

What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.

I love Dinwiddie, his 3 Point shooting worries me quite a bit but he is an aggressive guy that can score in isolation and create. Both of those skillsets are major needs.

[cow]

Dinwiddie is a big bag of meh.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

This is an interesting idea. I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown, but otherwise good idea.

https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1408811389372747787

Brooklyn is getting raped on that deal. You think Sean Marks would agree to that? I don't.

[Tyler]

More Brunson noise with the Knicks. If the new front office is looking to make moves, I do think there could be some trade potential there. For example, it seems like the most direct route to get back a 1st rounder in '23.

Let’s get it out of the way: Knicks president Leon Rose loves the son of his first client, ex-Knick Rick Brunson. Rose thinks the younger Brunson is a legitimate starting, playmaking point guard. Now it’s up to Dallas’ new coach, Jason Kidd, to decide whether Brunson, a second-round pick out of Villanova, is the guy to build around and lock in long term. The Mavericks will exercise his team option for next season and can offer him an extension. If Kidd lowballs him, Brunson will decline and the Mavericks will be forced to trade him or risk losing Brunson to 2022 free agency. The Knicks have Brunson on their radar. Thibodeau is a big fan of the lefty quarterback. Rick Brunson was on all of Thibodeau’s prior coaching staffs.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/ben-simmon...re-new-pg/

[Kammrath]

More Brunson noise with the Knicks. If the new front office is looking to make moves, I do think there could be some trade potential there. For example, it seems like the most direct route to get back a 1st rounder in '23.

That or Mitchell Robinson....if he is healthy, he is a great big to team with Luka.

[StepBackJay]

That or Mitchell Robinson....if he is healthy, he is a great big to team with Luka.

Ya I would love Mitchell Robinson. Hard to know if the Knicks love Brunson enough to give up MR.