2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Branduil]

I would do it yes.

Love is clearly Blake Griffin-ing it in CLE so I'd expect him to at least be a useful bench player here.

[Aussiebballer]

So Dallas want to trade for Sexton to be their sixth man on a $80-100mil contract???
Can’t see them trading for Sexton with  the thought of using him as a sixth man.
I can see them thinking he can be an off ball scorer with Luka and then the main play initiator when Luka rests.

[KillerLeft]

I can see them thinking he can be an off ball scorer with Luka and then the main play initiator when Luka rests.

Yes, that's the only reason to do it. If you don't want him for that, you look elsewhere. 

LIKE IN PHILLY FOR BEN SIMMONS!!!!!!

[Scott41theMavs]

Yes, that's the only reason to do it. If you don't want him for that, you look elsewhere. 

LIKE IN PHILLY FOR BEN SIMMONS!!!!!!

That gif tho... Is that little girl possessed or something?

[Branduil]

Do the Sexton trade, trade Maxi+JRich+Brunson for Collins, re-sign THJ, sign an Olynyk or Theis type with the MLE and a vet PG with the BAE.

Luka / ? / Terry
Sexton / THJ / Burke
DFS / Green
Collins / Powell / Bey
Olynyk / Love / WCS

[Scott41theMavs]

Do the Sexton trade, trade Maxi+JRich+Brunson for Collins, re-sign THJ, sign an Olynyk or Theis type with the MLE and a vet PG with the BAE.

Luka / ? / Terry
Sexton / THJ / Burke
DFS / Green
Collins / Powell / Bey
Olynyk / Love / WCS

https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/83655...1624671783

Only problem is that then you're working with the room MLE and not likely to get anyone as good as Olynyk. Unless, of course, Nico's recruiting skills are even better than we thought...

Edit: Never mind, I somehow missed that you did everything via trade except re-signing THJ, so you would indeed have the full MLE. Yes, that would be a great offseason. Don't think the Hawks let go of Collins, but you never know.

[cjeter24]

Trade idea by Sam Amico - have y’all already discussed this?

To Cleveland
- KP
- 2nd rounder

To Dallas
- Colin Sexton
- Kevin Love

Cleveland does this (according to him) bc they are out on Love and Sexton isn’t ‘the guy’ and they have the #3 pick to draft the guy so they won’t be signing Sexton.

Dallas does this for sexton as a 6th man role/2nd ball handler and Love as a player rehab in our system.

I didn’t like it at first but the more I think about it it’s not bad.

I posted this on another thread... But the real appeal of doing a Sexton trade is that you can trade him at the deadline for "more". 
KP has some value but it's not significant. I think a really good scorer like Sexton who is still on a rookie deal (although you got to pay him next year) is a very attractive piece. If you do have to pay him the max, his cap hold is quite a bit less so there's some appeal on that angle. 

It would be easy to send the 2022 1st out in a draft night trade to dump love as well next summer.

[cjeter24]

Possible Dame trade angle now if you could manage to get someone like Sexton as a return for KP. 

Dallas takes back Love and Dame, trades KP/Brunson to Cleveland, Portland gets the contracts needed to salary match, Green, Sexton 2022, 2024, 2026 1st and pick swaps for 2023 and 2025. 

Dallas would have to find a way to get a 2023 unprotected pick tho. Or I suppose you could get any 1st and then trade a 2025, 2027 first and then pick swaps.

[khaled1987]

Possible Dame trade 

Honestly,  I highly doubt that Dame would want to come here.
He basically found out the coach he publicly endorsed has passed on the opportunity in order to coach Luka, causing a sort of embarrassment in the process. 

I highly doubt he would want to go to Dallas now, it is the opposite

[Scott41theMavs]

Honestly,  I highly doubt that Dame would want to come here.
He basically found out the coach he publicly endorsed has passed on the opportunity in order to coach Luka, causing a sort of embarrassment in the process. 

I highly doubt he would want to go to Dallas now, it is the opposite

What a Debbie Downer.

[cjeter24]

Honestly,  I highly doubt that Dame would want to come here.
He basically found out the coach he publicly endorsed has passed on the opportunity in order to coach Luka, causing a sort of embarrassment in the process. 

I highly doubt he would want to go to Dallas now, it is the opposite

I think there is less than a 0% chance of that trade happening or Dame getting traded here this offseason. I was just throwing out some fodder. 
I think Dame would want to come here. He gets a legit star to play next to, he gets a coach he likes, and he gets his friend in the front office. 
I could see Dame coming here eventually via trade in a few years but I don't think thats anytime soon. We just don't realistically have the assets.

[dirkfansince1998]

Let´s be honest. Even the best mentioned offers barely beat the Jrue Holiday package. For Dame it would probably require something more similar to the AD or PG trade.

[Mapka]

Another thing about this - looks like Timmy will not stay with us

I don't think that's right. You can read this into Marks quote but I think the plan is to add this player/scorer.
THJ just depends on what other teams will offer him.

The KP piece is more suprising to me, using KPs favorite quote on himself.

[mvossman]

Do the Sexton trade, trade Maxi+JRich+Brunson for Collins, re-sign THJ, sign an Olynyk or Theis type with the MLE and a vet PG with the BAE.

Luka / ? / Terry
Sexton / THJ / Burke
DFS / Green
Collins / Powell / Bey
Olynyk / Love / WCS

Don't see Atlanta giving up Collins now, but more importantly that team will be a shit show defensively.  No rim protection and the only decent perimeter defender is DFS.  

There has been a lot of talk about these playoffs showing that offense is more important than defense, yet the only team left that is not a top 10 defense is Atlanta (who just got trucked by 40).  The top three teams in defense were all legit contenders that got bounced early due to injuries.  History has shown that it is nearly impossible to win a championship without a good defense.  It just can't be ignored.

[mvossman]

I posted this on another thread... But the real appeal of doing a Sexton trade is that you can trade him at the deadline for "more". 
KP has some value but it's not significant. I think a really good scorer like Sexton who is still on a rookie deal (although you got to pay him next year) is a very attractive piece. If you do have to pay him the max, his cap hold is quite a bit less so there's some appeal on that angle. 

It would be easy to send the 2022 1st out in a draft night trade to dump love as well next summer.

I'm not fond of this move from an on court product perspective, but it does make some sense from an asset standpoint.  Personally I would prefer to make a move that has a better chance of improving the team currently and long term without likely having to rely on future moves.

[DanSchwartzgan]

 
There has been a lot of talk about these playoffs showing that offense is more important than defense, yet the only team left that is not a top 10 defense is Atlanta (who just got trucked by 40).  The top three teams in defense were all legit contenders that got bounced early due to injuries.  History has shown that it is nearly impossible to win a championship without a good defense.  It just can't be ignored.

So, we need a top 10 defense.  We need another shot creator.  We need rebounding.  We need a second star. We need trade assets.  We need better depth.  

You are right BTW.  Part of that could be solved by addition.  But, it may also take subtraction of the worst defenders (most of whom are good offensive players).  To me, the question is whether this summer is about accumulating assets or will they try to take a big swing now while they “may” have cap room.

[mvossman]

So, we need a top 10 defense.  We need another shot creator.  We need rebounding.  We need a second star. We need trade assets.  We need better depth.  

You are right BTW.  Part of that could be solved by addition.  But, it may also take subtraction of the worst defenders (most of whom are good offensive players).  To me, the question is whether this summer is about accumulating assets or will they try to take a big swing now while they “may” have cap room.

I think they almost have to take the big swing due to limited cap space in future and they just hired a GM and coach specifically for bringing in free agents (it seems).

If you don't move KP, then your big splash to improve both shot creator and defense is to bring in Lowry or Conley.  THJ is gone if you do that, but you may still have enough to bring in a 3&D guy like Green (would be ironic if we finally get Green after Nelson leaves).  If you assume KP defensive issues were coming back from injury early related and he will get back to his old self with a healthy off season, then a lineup of KP/DFS/Luka/Green/Lowry would be contender worthy (if Lowry doesn't fall off a cliff).

Another option would be to land Ball.  He is not true shot creation, but his transition playmaking, BB IQ and passing ability would be a big help offensively and he is a good point of attack defender.  He would be a better version of what we were hoping to get from JRich.  If we had him this year instead of JRich, I think we are still playing and legit contenders.

If we are dumping KP, then my favorite play would be a Hayward trade.  Then you get Holmes for your anchor and Powell (or Ball) for your point of attach defender who can shoot.  Is Holmes/DFS/Hayward/Luka/Powell a contender?  I think it could be.

Another option if our big free agent is DeRozan, maybe you work a trade with Spurs for a DeRozan for KP S&T.  Maybe we get some additional value out of that.  Then you go the same route as above.  Is Holmes/DFS/DeRozan/Luka/Powell a contender.  I question if the defense is good enough.

Those are some pathways that I think are not crazy unreasonable that would address our biggest weaknesses.  Honestly if we could pull any of these off (with the possible exception of DeRozan) I would feel really good about our chances with Rick as coach.  I have a lot less confidence in what Kidd can do, but maybe we needed this GM/Coach move in order to execute a move like above.

[Chicagojk]

I think they almost have to take the big swing due to limited cap space in future and they just hired a GM and coach specifically for bringing in free agents (it seems).

If you don't move KP, then your big splash to improve both shot creator and defense is to bring in Lowry or Conley.  THJ is gone if you do that, but you may still have enough to bring in a 3&D guy like Green (would be ironic if we finally get Green after Nelson leaves).  If you assume KP defensive issues were coming back from injury early related and he will get back to his old self with a healthy off season, then a lineup of KP/DFS/Luka/Green/Lowry would be contender worthy (if Lowry doesn't fall off a cliff).

Another option would be to land Ball.  He is not true shot creation, but his transition playmaking, BB IQ and passing ability would be a big help offensively and he is a good point of attack defender.  He would be a better version of what we were hoping to get from JRich.  If we had him this year instead of JRich, I think we are still playing and legit contenders.

If we are dumping KP, then my favorite play would be a Hayward trade.  Then you get Holmes for your anchor and Powell (or Ball) for your point of attach defender who can shoot.  Is Holmes/DFS/Hayward/Luka/Powell a contender?  I think it could be.

Another option if our big free agent is DeRozan, maybe you work a trade with Spurs for a DeRozan for KP S&T.  Maybe we get some additional value out of that.  Then you go the same route as above.  Is Holmes/DFS/DeRozan/Luka/Powell a contender.  I question if the defense is good enough.

Those are some pathways that I think are not crazy unreasonable that would address our biggest weaknesses.  Honestly if we could pull any of these off (with the possible exception of DeRozan) I would feel really good about our chances with Rick as coach.  I have a lot less confidence in what Kidd can do, but maybe we needed this GM/Coach move in order to execute a move like above.

I keep playing in my mind Conley vs. Derozan.  I think going down the Lowry route is a bad decision.   I really like his fit here but he is a little older.   More importantly, I think Miami and Philly have been laying the groundwork there for awhile.   I expect he winds up in one of those two in a sign and trade.

I think Derozan is better than Conley, but Conley is the easier fit.  In addition, I think there is a chance you can interest Utah in a sign and trade.  Would they have interest in Richardson plus Maxi?  Those would be two good rotation players for them (If Richardson improves from this past season).    If that is the case, then you would have money to resign Hardaway.   Or do you let Hardaway go and sign Holmes plus Josh Hart (or another wing player)?   I am still leading towards Derozan, but my opinion could change.  If Derozan is at 30Plus million, that may be too tough for me to swallow.    

I need to think more if Holmes can play with KP, or will teams just put their PF on KP like we saw in the playoffs and attack whoever guards a wing?   I am intrigued with using both as ATL uses Capela and Collins, but need to think more about it.

[dirkfansince1998]

With Kidd as the new headcoach I am coming back to the Lonzo Ball discussion. Kidd has been his go to comparisation since he entered the league. Ballhandling, passing, rebounding and defense wiith questionable scoring ability. His shooting is already better than Kidd´s ever was. Can Kidd unlock Lonzo and turn the good/above average starter into a legit top two/three player on a contender?

[ClutchDirk]

With Kidd as the new headcoach I am coming back to the Lonzo Ball discussion. Kidd has been his go to comparisation since he entered the league. Ballhandling, passing, rebounding and defense wiith questionable scoring ability. His shooting is already better than Kidd´s ever was. Can Kidd unlock Lonzo and turn the good/above average starter into a legit top two/three player on a contender?

That would give you 2 premium ball handlers who can stagger their time and Ball can be taught by Kidd how to feed Luka in his spots so he can get his go to shots and penetration opportunities without carry the whole offensive responsibility...last 5 minutes Luka will not be worn out...

Also get me Collins to go with Ball...