2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Halfnir]

the idea that you can only have one player who handles the ball to have an effective offense like a weird thing to say.

I don't think anybody said that. The more offensive options you have, the better. 

But having a player that is only effective with the ball in his hands and that is absolutely no shooting threat on the perimeter (DeRozan) together with a high usage playmaker like Luka who's spot-up shooting qualities are currently average at best is not a good combination. Luka needs shooters around him that draw defenders to the perimeter and hit when left open to help on or double Luka (DeRozan can not do that) and at least one of them should be able to put the ball down and create plays as a second option (DeRozan can do that).

[Chicagojk]

After first moves it is very likely Mavs plan is to go after a star signing. I would think DeRozan is what qualifies as star. Now the question is what to do with THJ, assuming they are creative enough to get enough cap space to resign him. I guess it might be wise to go after someone more defensively oriented instead. But losing THJ shooting will hurt.

I think if Derozan is the target, then it means Hardaway will not be resigned.    It will be very difficult to free up the $, and I think a sign and trade will be difficult.   I also would think they are not a good match...especially with the salary requirements.  I agree, losing Hardaways shooting will hurt.

I think Derozan is the better player then Conley.  But Conley may be the better fit.   You even may be able to do a sign and trade for him which would allow you to re-sign Hardaway if you wish, plus have some $ left over.    I think Conley and Hardaway are the better fit too.

I just think Derozan is better, but the fit is a little more challenging.

[Chicagojk]

I don't think anybody said that. The more offensive options you have, the better. 

But having a player that is only effective with the ball in his hands and that is absolutely no shooting threat on the perimeter (DeRozan) together with a high usage playmaker like Luka who's spot-up shooting qualities are currently average at best is not a good combination. Luka needs shooters around him that draw defenders to the perimeter and hit when left open to help on or double Luka (DeRozan can not do that) and at least one of them should be able to put the ball down and create plays as a second option (DeRozan can do that).

I guess I don't understand that you just need shooters surrounding Luka.  First, I want to change our offense from being so Luka focused.   Second, the whole league knows Derozan doesn't shoot threes, but he still gets to the line around 8 times a game, lives in the paint and passes out around 6 assists a game.   I think getting the ball when Luka has all the attention and attacking the rim and either scoring or hitting another player for a wide open three would be very valuable.   I personally don't want four guys who are all just waiting for Luka to give them the ball so they can shoot a three.  I think some offensive diversity  would be beneficial.  Could you surround Luka and Derozan with three shooters and plus defenders?

Derozan is not an ideal fit and I can certainly see why others would prefer a different direction, but I think some are also not thinking of the different things he would provide that we are currently lacking.  All good debate though.

[SwisherPrice]

DeRozan solves the shot-creating weakness but that lack of 3-pt shooting is just too much to overlook. He is so bad, he barely even attempts them. It's unlike Kidd as a player, who was never a great statistical shooting player but he attempted a lot of them in his career so when he came here for the second stint, he found a way to improve - plus he was getting better looks with Dirk.

[soog]

Yes he has been super loyal more than any other star recently...

Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/...52771?s=21

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

DeRozan solves the shot-creating weakness but that lack of 3-pt shooting is just too much to overlook. He is so bad, he barely even attempts them.

Some of that is because the Spurs are generally dead last (or right close to dead last) in 3 point attempts for years.    If you're the leading shot creator and ball handler with a head coach and philosophy that puts emphasis on ball movement and trying to efficiently find open shots over jacking up as many 3s as possible, it's not going to lead to a ton of 3 point attempts.   And I would bet an inordinate amount of DeRozan's 3 point attempts are desperation attempts up against the shot clock.

The thing about DeRozan I like is his USG% to AST% ratio is phenomenal for a scoring ball handler the last few years.   Unlike a lot of scorers, he doesn't just dribble the air out of the ball while everyone clears out and stands around while he gets his buckets off iso plays.   He gets his buckets while getting everyone involved in the offense, and I think he can get the Mavs out the stagnant Harden ball offense we've been relegated to the last few years were Luka leads the league in dribbles/seconds per touch while 4 other guys stand around watching.

[SleepingHero]

Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/...52771?s=21

I did not see that and wow. 

Most likely nothing but after Dame's recent instagram post and now this I'd be nervous.

[ClutchDirk]

Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/...52771?s=21

BE PREPARED...

[Jym]

Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/...52771?s=21

PLEASE
He's who I've desperately wanted here the past couple years. Rest of the team doesn't matter if he and Luka go into the playoffs healthy together

[Scott41theMavs]

Turd-for-brains "fans" on Twitter and Bleacher Report comments yapping that the last thing the Mavs need is Dame Lillard to take the ball out of Luka's hands.

No one watches the playoffs. The Clippers, Suns, and Hawks are thriving because they have multiple players that can create their own shots.

[mvossman]

Just a personal hunch, but I think the Mavs are going to go hard after DeRozan as a tone setter going forward for the new front office with Nico.    DeRozan is a Nike client and idolized Kobe, and while he's not a "Superstar" I think he's a legit All Star caliber player and a very respected NBA veteran, and his signing could signal to other players that Dallas is a destination under new ownership.    It also just so happens that Mark said the #1 roster need for the Mavs is another shotmaker/ball handler to take some of the offensive workload off of Luka.


https://www.poundingtherock.com/2020/9/1...-from-nike

Also think going after DeRozan could allow the Mavs to use Brunson as trade ammo before he hits his 2nd contract.

If DeRozan is our big get this summer, count me hugely disappointed.  We could have probably done that with Nelson.  It definitely fits the "stars" narrative, even if it completely ignores fit.

I also happen to think DeRozan is overrated.  He's a good player with the ball in his hands, but a net negative when not.  It's kind of amazing that his teams have been better with him off the court almost every year of his career.

Not sure how much it will matter that signing DeRozan will make this a destination?  Between that signing and Luka's extension coming up, I don't see much available cap space for several years.

Honestly trading out THJ for DeRozan could very well be a downgrade (due to fit).  Add the clear downgrade in coaching and its hard to see that team complete anytime soon.

[StepBackJay]

DMR is 100 times better than THJ

[DanSchwartzgan]

BE PREPARED...

For just about anything.  A few random thoughts.

Like most, I really like the Harrison move...at least conceptually.  I don't know him at all, but the "idea of Harrison" (kind of like the idea of KP), feels like there could be a lot of upside.  What other GM will have as direct a relationship with star players as Nico.  Let me repeat that.  Donnie was tight with certain agents.  Cuban probably is also.  Nico is tight with PLAYERS.

I'm keeping a page of Nike players open on one of my screens.  Now when rumors come out, I'll have to look at agent and shoe contracts.  Sorry if this bothers you as the agent thing did for some.  But, until proven wrong, I'm going to keep an eye on it and track it.  Are we going to do Nike favors like we've done agent favors in the past?  It won't shock me to see Dallas in a rumor for a player I'm certain we don't really want, only to look at the shoe contract and go "oh, that's why".  BTW, that doesn't bother me at all if it makes it more expensive for a competitor to sign that player.

This Nike thing can cut both ways.  We've all jumped on the idea of getting this Nike player or that Nike player.  What do you do with Luka's fellow Jordan Brand buddy THJ?  We sending him packing?  We want shoe contracts and prior relationships with Harrison to matter to the FA's of other teams.  Will it make it harder to say good buy to our own FA's if they are properly aligned?

Do we shoot our wad this summer?  Do we plan for powder next summer?  I have no freaking idea.  Everything we've ever assumed to be true has really changed.  Hopefully we are past this idea that the only way to get good players is to have cap room.  No, get resources and when these Nike stars decide to force their way off of other teams, you trade for them.  I've been harping on the 2023 pick for a while now, but I think getting one is VERY important to getting that true star (especially since there really isn't one available in free agency).  It is possible we spend this summer gathering assets (which can be done without negatively impacting on-court compared to where we are now), with the big move still to come.  Frankly, I hope we are aiming higher than Beal (old) and LaVine (poor D).  

I mentioned JET Terry in a post last night.  I glanced at lineups Kidd coached in Brooklyn, Milwaukee and LA and was shocked to find him as a player under Kidd in both Brooklyn and again in Milwaukee.  Didn't remember that at all.

You usually don't get a great people person who is fantastic at relationships who is also great at leadership/vision and the nuts and bolts or operating an organization.  I still don't know how duties and titles will shake out here, but it feels to me like Harrison is a stallion and you let stallion's run and support the areas that aren't their strength.  Hopefully Finley is that and we become a team that is not only good at recruiting, but good organizationally as well.  Both would be a welcome change.  BTW, it wouldn't shock me to see someone added in more of a consultant role like Rod Thorn is doing in DC or West did in multiple locations.

[KillerLeft]

I'm keeping a page of Nike players open on one of my screens.  Now when rumors come out, I'll have to look at agent and shoe contracts.  Sorry if this bothers you as the agent thing did for some.  But, until proven wrong, I'm going to keep an eye on it and track it.

Love it, and I knew you'd be all over this. Doesn't bother me a bit. Every piece of insight helps!

[ClutchDirk]

For just about anything.  A few random thoughts.

Like most, I really like the Harrison move...at least conceptually.  I don't know him at all, but the "idea of Harrison" (kind of like the idea of KP), feels like there could be a lot of upside.  What other GM will have as direct a relationship with star players as Nico.  Let me repeat that.  Donnie was tight with certain agents.  Cuban probably is also.  Nico is tight with PLAYERS.

I'm keeping a page of Nike players open on one of my screens.  Now when rumors come out, I'll have to look at agent and shoe contracts.  Sorry if this bothers you as the agent thing did for some.  But, until proven wrong, I'm going to keep an eye on it and track it.  Are we going to do Nike favors like we've done agent favors in the past?  It won't shock me to see Dallas in a rumor for a player I'm certain we don't really want, only to look at the shoe contract and go "oh, that's why".  BTW, that doesn't bother me at all if it makes it more expensive for a competitor to sign that player.

This Nike thing can cut both ways.  We've all jumped on the idea of getting this Nike player or that Nike player.  What do you do with Luka's fellow Jordan Brand buddy THJ?  We sending him packing?  We want shoe contracts and prior relationships with Harrison to matter to the FA's of other teams.  Will it make it harder to say good buy to our own FA's if they are properly aligned?

Do we shoot our wad this summer?  Do we plan for powder next summer?  I have no freaking idea.  Everything we've ever assumed to be true has really changed.  Hopefully we are past this idea that the only way to get good players is to have cap room.  No, get resources and when these Nike stars decide to force their way off of other teams, you trade for them.  I've been harping on the 2023 pick for a while now, but I think getting one is VERY important to getting that true star (especially since there really isn't one available in free agency).  It is possible we spend this summer gathering assets (which can be done without negatively impacting on-court compared to where we are now), with the big move still to come.  Frankly, I hope we are aiming higher than Beal (old) and LaVine (poor D).  

I mentioned JET Terry in a post last night.  I glanced at lineups Kidd coached in Brooklyn, Milwaukee and LA and was shocked to find him as a player under Kidd in both Brooklyn and again in Milwaukee.  Didn't remember that at all.

You usually don't get a great people person who is fantastic at relationships who is also great at leadership/vision and the nuts and bolts or operating an organization.  I still don't know how duties and titles will shake out here, but it feels to me like Harrison is a stallion and you let stallion's run and support the areas that aren't their strength.  Hopefully Finley is that and we become a team that is not only good at recruiting, but good organizationally as well.  Both would be a welcome change.  BTW, it wouldn't shock me to see someone added in more of a consultant role like Rod Thorn is doing in DC or West did in multiple locations.

Dan you could make a running thread or separate threads for each major rumor...I would love to read them and am very interested in the Nike angles...

[KillerLeft]

Dan you could make a running thread or separate threads for each major rumor...I would love to read them and am very interested in the Nike angles...

Maybe we could even use a "Nike's top clients" thread?

[Tyler]

More insight into what types of players Dallas is looking for this summer. Short story - a second major scorer. I imagine a guy like Sexton would at least get their attention. 

https://twitter.com/diamond83/status/140...93188?s=21

[ClutchDirk]

More insight into what types of players Dallas is looking for this summer. Short story - a second major scorer. I imagine a guy like Sexton would at least get their attention. 

https://twitter.com/diamond83/status/140...93188?s=21

https://media.giphy.com/media/p8GJOXwSNzQPu/giphy.gif

[ClutchDirk]

Maybe we could even use a "Nike's top clients" thread?

Good thought...

[omahen]

More insight into what types of players Dallas is looking for this summer. Short story - a second major scorer. I imagine a guy like Sexton would at least get their attention. 

DeRozan