2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[SleepingHero]

Re: moving Love,

"Unless it’s an equally bad contract (ahem, Kristaps Porzingis or CJ McCollum), the trade route is tricky."

 

They're delusional if they think KP or McCollum are anywhere close to the negative value that is Love.

Love is top 3 worst contracts in the league.

[StepBackJay]

I keep coming back to Wiz and Warriors as likely to have offers on the table, maybe others. I just think those two teams in particular have a lot of motivation for a guy like KP.

There could be others for sure. We have mentioned SA for example but they might think Lauri is a similar player for half the price. Wiz and GSW are ones to watch.

[SleepingHero]

I keep coming back to Wiz and Warriors as likely to have offers on the table, maybe others. I just think those two teams in particular have a lot of motivation for a guy like KP.

There could be others for sure. We have mentioned SA for example but they might think Lauri is a similar player for half the price. Wiz and GSW are ones to watch.

I think the Wizards or Warriors will be likely trade partners for Love given that KP won't/can't be had for pennies on the dollar.

[omahen]

I decided to have a look at all teams and classify them based on possibility to have business with Mavs. I divided them in the following basic categories:
- rebuilding: looking for assets, not giving assets, selling vets and cap space
- desperate: desperately looking to improve
- Patient: building a team

I think Mavs act like they are in patient mode but it might be they are quietly desperate.

Houston. Rebuilding. They have two horrible contracts in Wall and Gordon one would have to be really desperate to trade for them. A couple of cost controlled and useful vets are still on the team and could be obtained for minor assets, but not really interested. Their cap space will be limited. Likely no business here. 

Detroit. Rebuilding. Very similar to Houston. Mostly cleaned up roster but still some vets for reasonable contracts. Also limited cap space. Likely no business. They own 3 SRP in the next draft, if a team wanted to buy one.

Orlando. Rebuilding? They traded their best veterans but a little bit of lottery luck can give them a top5 and top10 pick in the following. With returning Isaac, Fultz and remaining bunch of promising young role players, this team might become a very exciting and promising team quickly. Any team featuring Isaac and Fultz will desperately need shooters on all remaining positions. KP anyone? Similar to Houston and Detroit limited cap space.

OKC. Rebuilding+++. Other than Horford no vets left. They have 10 players under contract and only 55 mil committed. They own 2 FRP and 3 SRP in this draft. I guess it would be easy to buy one of those unless their goal is to have 35 players stashed in Europe. Perfect destination for salary cap dumps.

Cleveland. Rebuilding? Should be rebuilding but who knows. They still have a couple of average vets and some young talent that doesn't really work together well. What they will do with Sexton is a mistery, but I am not really interested. In any case, they will try to sell him as a star, which he is not.

GSW. Desperate? They really owe another title run to Curry, but one could argue this team looks good with healthy Thompson (if he can be good after two years off). They have two lottery picks (if Minny falls outside top 3). They could use them for easy post Curry transition or for desperate title run. I doubt KP value is much higher than Wiggins at this point. Other than that I don't really see business with them.

Toronto. Patient? Doesn't look like they will go into full rebuild mode. They have a nice young core but lack s star. I doubt there is much business to be had here.

Chicago. Desperate? They made an all in move for Vucevic which didn't work at all and they have no choice but to double down on that. Desperately need a good defensive minded floor general. I guess they will go hard after Ball but don't have the cap space and NO doesn't look interested in Markkanen. I guess they will be looking for a trade for PG. 

Sacramento. Desperate? Longest tenure without play-offs. Trying very hard each year and failing miserably each year. They need to get out of this circle. Never bad enough for top pick but never good enough for playoffs. Scored gold with Haliburton. They basically have no cap space (MLE level), realistically can't resign Holmes unless they dump some salary. Bagley is always injured and doesn't play defense. Would they take KP for Hield/Bagley package? Would it even be interesting for Mavs?

New Orleans. Patient. On paper they have some top young talent which failed to deliver two seasons in a row. Big decision about Ball and Hart in front of them. Adams and Bledsoe are overpaid non shooting players. They own 4 SRP if someone is interested in buying one. Need shooters around point Zion but basically only Ball and Ingram could be called that, neither on awesome percentage. On paper solid individual defenders but horrible team defense. 

Charlotte. Patient. Nailed Ball pick last season. He could develop in a (super)star. Solid young pieces around him and Hayward who is great when healthy (unfortunately not often). Desperately need a center and they are in good position either to trade for one or sign a FA one. KP would look great on their team, and their players on ours

SA. Rebuilding? End of an era approaching. Pop is hunting last wins to become the coach with most wins in history. All vets are on expiring contracts. Will they go for a rebuild or for a smooth transition using cap space for some young talent? Always good at turning average FRP into useful players but even they can find Kawhi with those only once per 20 years or so. Could use a center into that huge cap room and could spare one of their many young guards.

Indiana. Patient? I guess they will try with a new coach, third one in three years. Limited changes to the roster, which could change at TDL if performance wouldn't show hope. Their modus operandi has always been turning good vets into high ceiling youngsters. Several players we like, but I find it unlikely we could really go after them unless they decide to rebuild.

Minnesota. Desperate? Their team is at tax level and they were one of the worst in the league. Even worse not much talent that would be appealing for a serious upgrade. They owe their pick to GSW unles top 3. I think their solid end of the season was fools gold. Their team is not build to play (any) defense. I guess one could go after some of their many average youngsters like Culver and Okogie, but none of them is really convincing, to say it nicely. 

Washington. Desperate. Beal is not wanting out (yet), so team desperately tries to improve. Problem is there is not much talent there. Prime example of a team desperate enough to look at KP. Not much we could get from them and not much they can afford to give and remain competitive. Desperately need shooters around Westbrook as they were one of the worst shooting teams. 

Boston. Organic rebuild - get rid of vets and retool around Tatum/Brown. Looks like Stevens will need to reshape roster. Kemba wants out and they want him out, but his contract is a prime albatross. Smart also looks to be available. They don't have a center worth mentioning and they are deeeeeeep into tax with a team that couldn't get out of first round, unless they reshape things. Their young talents are not really valuable. They have all the picks though. Will be interesting to see and there might be some business for Dallas here.

Memphis. Patient. They assembled a young star in Morant, perhaps star in plenty unjured Jackson and a bunch of good young role players. Desperately need shooting and talent upgrade to be more than first round exit. THJ would be awesome for them and they can have decent capspace if they release Winslow. 

Miami. Desperate. Desperate but with a top GM, always finding ways to bring top talent. Can go over or under the cap way. Likely no business here, Mavs don't have much that would interest them.

New York. Patient? They have a ton of cap space and increased wishes. No top talent available so let's see if they will be patient and move cap space to next year or will they go for a couple of solid players. Likely no business, unless they are in love with Brunson.

Atlanta. Patient. They build a nice team. Collins is the only question. If they win round 2 against Philly I would say it is a lock to resign him, no matter the price. If they lose they might to rethink it.

Lakers. Desperate+++. None team is so desperate as them. Trades last season didn't work. Schroeder was bad, Harrell benched and is probably leaving. A bunch of free agents Lakers can't afford to let walk for nothing. Probably looking for a new home for Kuzma. Don't have much draft assets and can't afford a SnT. Looking for win now vets. 

Portland. Desperate+. Announcing coach will be the only change, but their roster will be hugely expensive. A bit of a mistery what moves they will make (if any), but definitely looking to win now.

Milwaukee. Desperate. Their core is locked and you can't realistically get better sidekicks than Middleton and Jrue to Milwaukee. DiVinzenzo is the only thing one could call asset. So the only thing they can do are changes around the edges. Coach will be gone for sure if they lose against Nets.

Clippers. Desperate? Assuming Kawhi resigns their core is locked. They have a bunch of medum sized contracts they could move for what they think are better win now pieces. Zubac and Mann could be called assets. I doubt Mavs would be willing to trade with their nemesis.

Denver. Patient. Not much about this one. Very good core they will try to improve. Barton and Millsap might be on the move, rest will likely stay. 

Nets. Desperate. Huge payroll that probably doesn't bother one of richest people on Earth. Core is set, might be looking to improve around the edges.

Sixers. Patient? There will be huge questions about this roster if they fail to win against Atlanta. Finally a time to break Embiid-Simmons? If they win the roster is nicely set. Elite top end talent and good and cheap young role players.

Phoenix. Patient. Their only task is to keep CP3. Rest of the roster is set very well.

Utah. Patient? Everything is great if they win against Clippers. If not, there might be doubts about this roster, especially if it is really worth it to resign Conley. Other than that the roster is set with nicely distributed roles.

[Kammrath]

Would they take KP for Hield/Bagley package? Would it even be interesting for Mavs?

I am 100% in on that I think. I would want to compare other offers, but if that is my best one, all in.

[Kammrath]

KP would look great on their team, and their players on ours

Who are you thinking on CHA looks good on the Mavs?

[Chicagojk]

This isn't a well thought idea from me and not one I am willing to get behind at this point.  Some of these ideas have been brought up several times in the past as well.   I keep on thinking if resigning Hardaway, using the rest of the cap space on another free agent and maybe trading one of our depth pieces are big enough moves to get us where we want to be.   I don't know.  I do think this offseason needs to upgrade our starters....not work around the edges.  I think the Mavs re-sign Hardaway, but lets think what if they didn't for a moment.  Therefore, if we assume Richardson opts out, we do not pick up the option on WCS, and do not prioritize re-signing Hardaway...here is an idea.  

One more thing, the Mavs need to have an honest conversation on Brunson this offseason.   I would have rode him more in the first round.   Even if the matchup was not great for him, I would have bet on what he showed during the regular season that he would have eventually figured things out.    In the first 4 games of the series he played 21, 17,22 and 19(blowout) minutes.  I think that is even too low.  The last three he played 10,15, and 10 minutes.   It is tough to get in a rhythm in 10 minutes.   Dallas needs to have a frank discussion if they view him as a 25-28 minute player moving forward.   If not, they would be best served to look to move him because he is going to look for a situation where he can get more minutes, even if he really likes Dallas.   So what about this?

Sign DeMar Derozan.   Use the rest of available room to sign a Danny Green type.  Throw in another 3 and D name is you like instead of Green.  

Explore if there is any traction of a Brunson for Mitchell Robinson trade.    

Dallas could then see if they can rebuild KP value to either keep him or move him.  They would also have expiring of Maxi and Powell to either keep at a lower # or combine into one player at the trading deadline.

Luka and Demar are your ball handlers and penetrators.   Demar would probably be your backup point guard as well, but you would also have Burke and maybe start giving Terry minutes as the season goes on.   You could also sign a veteran min backup point guard as well.   

DFS, Danny Green and Josh Green are you core guard and wing defenders.   

Robinson either starts next to KP or comes off the bench at center.

Does that make the team better?   Not sure, but I think it improves our starting lineup if Mitchell can win a starting spot.  

Just an idea.

[mvossman]

Seeing what happens in the playoffs just convinces me we need to get players who can shoot and play D. So no spending big money on guys like Derozan.

Totally agree with this, but didn't you say you wouldn't pay 15 for Ball?  He fits both as well as being a very good passer with high BB IQ.  Its also a huge bonus that he is only 23 and improving every year.  Seems like the perfect kind of player to invest in to play with Luka for a long time.

[dirkfansince1998]

Back to the salary dump idea. OKC has capspace and is not trying to win in the next 1-2 seasons. Spurs have capspace. Pop is the kind of coach that takes a guy like KP and builds around him when other franchises failed to do it. Cleveland and Toronto probably aren´t interested but it wouldn´t hurt to call them. Not sure about Charlotte. Heat are linked to every big name. Why not KP?
Send out KP. Take back less than 12m. Create 40m + in capspace.

[omahen]

Heat are linked to every big name. Why not KP?

You think KP is a salary dump. I think that answers your question.

[SleepingHero]

I am 100% in on that I think. I would want to compare other offers, but if that is my best one, all in.

What does Bagley bring that will fix our issues with KP? He's one of the worst defensive forwards the NBA has seen the last decade. Further his offense is so one dimensional. He has a single go to move with his left hand that when it's taken away he's rendered useless. Not to mention he also has an injury reputation that arguably surpasses KP's.

I love Hield, but if we're going after him then that also means THJ is out the door too. Neither one really compliment each other and they're both scoring type SG's that can't defend. So it's really KP+THJ for Bagley+Hield and I think that's 10 steps back with not much cap relief.

[loki]

If Washington isn't willing to give up a 1st for KP, I think it's likely that he returns next year. I struggle to see the Mavs trading him within the division or even within the conference to a team that they're going to be battling for playoff seeding.

For a realistic offseason, I would pursue THJ, Holmes, and Burks (rMLE) signings. There will be more competition for Holmes than the rest, but hopefully they can keep it under $20M per year. I'd try to limit THJ to around $16M unless he's willing to accept a team option or partial guarantee in the 4th season. It might be interesting to try to structure one or both of THJ/Holmes as declining contracts to maximize cap space in 2023 (if KP is eventually moved) or 2024. Dumping Burke + cash/2nd rounder to OKC could free up a little more room to make that possible.

Luka / Brunson
Burks / THJ
DFS
KP / Kleber
Holmes / WCS

Far from a perfect lineup, but I think this team could have actually beaten the Clippers. I'd still look to add a vet point guard like Rubio to keep the offense from stalling out when Luka sits. Maybe a Powell+Brunson for Rubio+pick type of move?

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

I am 100% in on that I think. I would want to compare other offers, but if that is my best one, all in.

I would absolutely need their lottery pick this year assuming it doesn't wind up in the top 4.  Hield is massively overpaid and Bagley is injured/unproven.  Neither guy projects to be a top 2 player on the Mavs.  Meanwhile KP could wind up being the Kings' Chris Webber trade redux.  The early career arcs/storylines of CWebb and KP are eerily similar (fallout with first team, misused by the second team, injuries -- CWebb's shoulder/KP's knee).  In other words, don't deal a potential franchise bigman for an iffy SG.

And with that #9 overall pick I take Davion Mitchell.  There's your ballhandler/lockdown D guy.

[Mavs2021]

I decided to have a look at all teams and classify them based on possibility to have business with Mavs. I divided them in the following basic categories:
- rebuilding: looking for assets, not giving assets, selling vets and cap space
- desperate: desperately looking to improve
- Patient: building a team

I think Mavs act like they are in patient mode but it might be they are quietly desperate.


Detroit. Rebuilding. Very similar to Houston. Mostly cleaned up roster but still some vets for reasonable contracts. Also limited cap space. Likely no business. They own 3 SRP in the next draft, if a team wanted to buy one.

I think business can be do at the PG/SG front. They simplay have too many and could add more in the draft.

PG: Cory Joseph (one year, UFA, 12M with just a 2M guarantee), Frank Jackson (RFA), DSJ (RFA), Killian Hayes.
SG: McGruder (non-guaranteed), Saddiq Bey, Josh Jackson (one year, UFA), Hamadou Diallo (RFA)

Diallo showed signs of his offense coming around in Detroit. He was a net positive on the defensive end the last two years in OKC. McGruder + Joseph could be salary-dump options at the draft, depending when the options are due.

Chicago. Desperate? They made an all in move for Vucevic which didn't work at all and they have no choice but to double down on that. Desperately need a good defensive minded floor general. I guess they will go hard after Ball but don't have the cap space and NO doesn't look interested in Markkanen. I guess they will be looking for a trade for PG. 

THJ + Markkanen + Kuzma is a perfect three-way trade for all parties involved imho. Mavs don´t need to stress about RFA and can just negotiate with Markkanen. Bulls get a good young veteran player on a decent contract. THJ gets paid above MLE level. Lakers get their needed veterean scoring help.

Sacramento. Desperate? Longest tenure without play-offs. Trying very hard each year and failing miserably each year. They need to get out of this circle. Never bad enough for top pick but never good enough for playoffs. Scored gold with Haliburton. They basically have no cap space (MLE level), realistically can't resign Holmes unless they dump some salary. Bagley is always injured and doesn't play defense. Would they take KP for Hield/Bagley package? Would it even be interesting for Mavs?

Absolutely desperate. New owner still searching for just a play-off appearance. Would they offer Hield/Bagley III. I think so. Would the Mavs be interested? Not sure Bagley is a great fit with Luka, but the big problem is that you have to pay Bagley next year (just like Bamba/WCJ). Though I think Hield/Bagley III is a package you can sell much easier to some re-tooling teams in a 3-way trade than Porzingis. Pacers for example.

New Orleans. Patient. On paper they have some top young talent which failed to deliver two seasons in a row. Big decision about Ball and Hart in front of them. Adams and Bledsoe are overpaid non shooting players. They own 4 SRP if someone is interested in buying one. Need shooters around point Zion but basically only Ball and Ingram could be called that, neither on awesome percentage. On paper solid individual defenders but horrible team defense. 

I´m so curious WTF is going on with Ball. On paper he is on the perfect team. But neither side seems very bothered about the situation.

Minnesota. Desperate? Their team is at tax level and they were one of the worst in the league. Even worse not much talent that would be appealing for a serious upgrade. They owe their pick to GSW unles top 3. I think their solid end of the season was fools gold. Their team is not build to play (any) defense. I guess one could go after some of their many average youngsters like Culver and Okogie, but none of them is really convincing, to say it nicely. 

Did the owner sell the team this time? I think they were pretty happy with their level of play, when everybody got healthy, but they are up against the cap already, and would probably like to add 1+2 veteran pieces.  Therefore Culver is probably getting traded. His defensive numbers are pretty good. Maybe a change of scenery and playing with Luka could help his offense come around.

Washington. Desperate. Beal is not wanting out (yet), so team desperately tries to improve. Problem is there is not much talent there. Prime example of a team desperate enough to look at KP. Not much we could get from them and not much they can afford to give and remain competitive. Desperately need shooters around Westbrook as they were one of the worst shooting teams. 

Just so hard to get the salaries synced up, although I think the Mavs are less bothered by Bertans´contract than us (if I had to guess), but both sides are probably hung up on Hachimura.

New York. Patient? They have a ton of cap space and increased wishes. No top talent available so let's see if they will be patient and move cap space to next year or will they go for a couple of solid players. Likely no business, unless they are in love with Brunson.

If they really want Brunson and Brunson wants to work with his father, I´m not 100% convinced of either.  I´d love to get one of our picks back and eat that Knox contract for a year. Though we were all a bit disappointed in his play-offs, the biggest reason was the designated role of PG and insufficient teammates. If the Mavs could play him in his natural position of SG next to a real playmaker and not guys like Burke and Richardson, he´d shine again.

Sixers. Patient? There will be huge questions about this roster if they fail to win against Atlanta. Finally a time to break Embiid-Simmons? If they win the roster is nicely set. Elite top end talent and good and cheap young role players.

Don´t think Morey does patient. Depending on how this post-season ends that could be another THJ landing spot. George Hill (10M with just a 1M guarantee, due date?), Green (gulp), Korkmaz, Milton or Maxey. No way they they trade Simmons.

Great job. Some comments in between.

[omahen]

Why not Mavs?

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...8593632264

[Chicagojk]

Why not Mavs?

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...8593632264

He has always been on the "guys I like" role players the last few years.  For his size, he put up some monster rebound games this year.

Not sure he shoots it well enough and we have seen what happens when a player doesn't shoot well with Luka.   I am also not sure salary would fit in what we want to do.  

Although as a tough, smart player he is one of my favs.

[omahen]

He has always been on the "guys I like" role players the last few years.  For his size, he put up some monster rebound games this year.

Not sure he shoots it well enough and we have seen what happens when a player doesn't shoot well with Luka.   I am also not sure salary would fit in what we want to do.  

Although as a tough, smart player he is one of my favs.

Agree, cap space should be used for something better. And he is probably looking for more than bench role.

[ClutchDirk]

He has always been on the "guys I like" role players the last few years.  For his size, he put up some monster rebound games this year.

Not sure he shoots it well enough and we have seen what happens when a player doesn't shoot well with Luka.   I am also not sure salary would fit in what we want to do.  

Although as a tough, smart player he is one of my favs.

He could be part of a KP trade that gets us back Adams Ball and Hart...

[Kammrath]

Definitely like Hart....but the Mavs have bigger issues to address first.

[Kammrath]

Adams Ball and Hart