2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[ItsGoTime]

Can't argue with any of this logic. It makes a lot of sense. I just can't imagine that having that family connected with this team would be a good thing. Maybe I'm making too much of that, but I actually am one of the people around here who believes in the Mavs' culture stuff. I think it's one of the few things they've done mostly right over the past 20 years. 

And, while I'm with you about the player description you laid out seeming like the perfect fit next to Luka, we somehow need to reconcile the fact that the Mavs tried two players like that during the last two years - first, Delon Wright, then Josh Richardson. In both cases, it eventually became clear that the team was better off with Hardaway, a pure shooter, in that spot instead. How do we make sense of that? Are Wright and Richardson not good enough examples of that type? I mean, it would be GREAT if Hardaway was also a lockdown defender and not just an adequate one, but THAT guy would be a MAX player - a STAR.

I think this is a difficult thing to figure out, especially given how many people's biggest criticism is the offense. It's almost as if the Mavs need TWO starting guards next to Luka, and Luka needs to be the 3, in name and practice both. I know @"omahen" tends to look at things from that angle, and he might be right.

I was meaning to talk about this with Omahen's original post about where the players logically fit on this team. Luka could also be used in that 4 spot. He mostly guarded Morris in the Clippers series didn't he? As a defender he's a big body for the bigger guys but he's quick enough for the guys that are smaller at that position. Also, there are a lot of catch and shoot guys at that position around the league. 

At the very least, it allows us to be flexible in our search. If we find 2 guard types, get them and use a season to see if it'll work. If it doesn't, trade to match what you need.

[Branduil]

I really do not get the Lonzo love. Someone suggested $25 mil per year, which is beyond insane to me.

Like the biggest flaw with this Mavs team is the lack of a secondary playmaker who can create his own shot. Lonzo doesn't fix that problem, he's a horrible scorer who can only hit wide-open threes. His 2PT% is disastrous and let's not even talk about his FT%.

Shouldn't the fact that N.O. doesn't want him be a huge red flag? It's not like they're swimming in quality point guards to replace him.

[ItsGoTime]

Rick's constant praise of KP and Donnie's praise of him makes me think they want to trade him.

I thought the same about Powell once.

[Branduil]

Anyway, I think we should keep our eyes on Milwaukee. If they flame out yet again there's going to be massive pressure to make changes- they'll fire Coach Bud at least, and probably look to change the team. The "idea" of KP would surely be a perfect fit with Giannis as well... Lopez is getting older and slower, and his shooting has gone down. If we could manage to get Middleton with something like KP+Brunson that would be a steal.

[khaled1987]

 a secondary playmaker who can create his own shot. Lonzo doesn't fix that problem, he's a horrible scorer who can only hit wide-open threes. His 2PT% is disastrous and let's not even talk about his FT%.

48% 2PT
78% Ft 
37.8% 3PT
Can't say any of them are horrible 
He is for sure a good passer, but the concern about his ability to create is a legitimate concern

[DanSchwartzgan]

I really do not get the Lonzo love. Someone suggested $25 mil per year, which is beyond insane to me.

Like the biggest flaw with this Mavs team is the lack of a secondary playmaker who can create his own shot. Lonzo doesn't fix that problem, he's a horrible scorer who can only hit wide-open threes. His 2PT% is disastrous and let's not even talk about his FT%.

Shouldn't the fact that N.O. doesn't want him be a huge red flag? It's not like they're swimming in quality point guards to replace him.

I was once high on Lonzo, but I'm off the train.  It isn't his FT%, it is his FT Attempts.  He avoids contact like the plague.  He's not much more than a C&S three point shooter who happens to pass the ball well.  We already move the ball just fine.  As you say, the issue is someone who can create for themselves and others and Lonzo isn't that guy in terms of creating for himself.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Let's pretend for a moment that a KP trade nets another big as the main guy incoming (Turner and Lamb for example).

I'd want any of these before I consider THJ:
1. Derozan - He does not shoot the 3. But I expect the Mavs team to be the same group of guys, most of which are spot up 3 point shooters. Derozan at least, would try to take it inside. And here's a guy who can play 2 to 4. That flexibility will be amazing.
2. Lonzo Ball - Yes he doesn't create for himself, but so does THJ. I don't expect the offense to be as bad as it looks when Luka sits.
3. Fournier - He is the safe pick. Has more playmaking than THJ but signing him won't be too exciting.

[khaled1987]

 He's not much more than a C&S three point shooter who happens to pass the ball well.  

What is C&S? catch and shoot?

[omahen]

What would you think about a couple of "fallen angels" that probably tanked their price a lot. A team with a very limited asset chest might consider them:
- Oladipo, OPJ and probably Oubre tanked their price considerably. Schroeder might also fell in this group. Of course signing them at star price makes no sense. But at 10 mil prove it contract? Each of them theoretically fills one of our many positions of need. If they get to 80 % of their best season that contract would be a bargain. Oubre is still young and oozes potential. 

- we have the eternal Ntilikina debate and he will finally be available, probably for vet min. Brunson-Ntilikina might be a decent bench pair

- Zach Collins is an interesting name assuming his ankles are fixed. I doubt Portland will have anything serious to throw at him

- Winslow has been absolutely terrible and Memphis might not take his option. Can a healthy offseason change his future?

- I always liked DJ Wilson, there is Lyles Mavs were rumored to get in the Redick deal,

[Kammrath]

Ntilikina

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...2961833991

[SleepingHero]

I was once high on Lonzo, but I'm off the train.  It isn't his FT%, it is his FT Attempts.  He avoids contact like the plague.  He's not much more than a C&S three point shooter who happens to pass the ball well.  We already move the ball just fine.  As you say, the issue is someone who can create for themselves and others and Lonzo isn't that guy in terms of creating for himself.

FT attempts seems to be a little bit of a minor critique is it not?

We know Lonzo isn't a scorer. He's never been that. But what he can do is offer the Mavs the unique skillset we've been searching for, a secondary ball handler that can defend at a high level AND knockdown threes.

He's going to get wide open shots for days standing next to Luka. Further, he knows how to actually create off the dribble for others.

The best thing about Lonzo isn't even on the offensive end, the dude lets the Mavs have a 6'6 switchable guard that can defend forwards AND guards at a high level.

---

- we have the eternal Ntilikina debate and he will finally be available, probably for vet min. Brunson-Ntilikina might be a decent bench pair

One of our biggest issues in the playoffs was having bench players not being able to do much of anything on offense without Luka creating something for them.

Franky Smokes doesn't help that problem and in fact exacerbates it. He isn't an NBA player. He's probably going to go back to Europe because I don't think a single NBA team has any interest. He's had 4 years to learn how to shoot and he still can't do it.

[Mavs2021]

It´s honestly not some sort of witchcraft to trade Porzingis. You just have to be realistic.



Last summer the Pacers were willing to trade Myles Turner for Gordon Hayward on a max contract, who came off a nerve-damage injury to his leg. So we have almost a perfect match on what kind of player value the Pacers attach to Myles Turner. Now all you need to do is find a trade partner interested in Porzingis. Washington is clearly that.

Turner/Lamb to Dallas
Porzingis to Washington
Bertans/Gafford/Avdija/15th pick to Indiana.

IT IS DONE. No drama.

Sign(& trade) Markkanen.

You try and collude with Duffy on Lavine THIS SUMMER and you have the complete roster overhaul for 2022.

If Lavine does not give you good vibes for 2022, you offer the Pelicans a THJ for Lonzo S&T and threaten them with a big offer.

Doncic
Lavine or Ball
DFS
Markkanen
Turner

And that is a YOUNG re-tradeable ROSTER.

[mvossman]

It´s honestly not some sort of witchcraft to trade Porzingis. You just have to be realistic.



Last summer the Pacers were willing to trade Myles Turner for Gordon Hayward on a max contract, who came off a nerve-damage injury to his leg. So we have almost a perfect match on what kind of player value the Pacers attach to Myles Turner. Now all you need to do is find a trade partner interested in Porzingis. Washington is clearly that.

Turner/Lamb to Dallas
Porzingis to Washington
Bertans/Gafford/Avdija/15th pick to Indiana.

IT IS DONE. No drama.

Sign(& trade) Markkanen.

You try and collude with Duffy on Lavine THIS SUMMER and you have the complete roster overhaul for 2022.

If Lavine does not give you good vibes for 2022, you offer the Pelicans a THJ for Lonzo S&T and threaten them with a big offer.

Doncic
Lavine or Ball
DFS
Markkanen
Turner

And that is a YOUNG re-tradeable ROSTER.

Three team deals are not easy to orchestrate, but that one seems reasonable.  I would much rather go after Brogdon and would be willing to add Brunson to get him.

Lavine is a pipe dream.

Lonzo makes sense, but it will cost an asset and I doubt THJ trade would do it.

Markkanen is not a startable player on a contender.  He would get abused on defense, particularly in the playoffs.

[BasketballJones41]

It´s honestly not some sort of witchcraft to trade Porzingis. You just have to be realistic.



Last summer the Pacers were willing to trade Myles Turner for Gordon Hayward on a max contract, who came off a nerve-damage injury to his leg. So we have almost a perfect match on what kind of player value the Pacers attach to Myles Turner. Now all you need to do is find a trade partner interested in Porzingis. Washington is clearly that.

Turner/Lamb to Dallas
Porzingis to Washington
Bertans/Gafford/Avdija/15th pick to Indiana.

IT IS DONE. No drama.

Sign(& trade) Markkanen.

You try and collude with Duffy on Lavine THIS SUMMER and you have the complete roster overhaul for 2022.

If Lavine does not give you good vibes for 2022, you offer the Pelicans a THJ for Lonzo S&T and threaten them with a big offer.

Doncic
Lavine or Ball
DFS
Markkanen
Turner

And that is a YOUNG re-tradeable ROSTER.

I like this a lot. I’d like it even better if we could route lamb to a 3rd team. A Lonzo/Lauri/Turner off-season would be insane. That’s top 3 seed stuff right there.

[ItsGoTime]

Best offseason is Turner and Brogdan here. If we have to send out Maxi (because he would fit well with Sabonis) and Brunson (along with KP) in the 3 team deal, I’m fine with that. That package is easily more value than the incoming and I would prefer getting a 23 first back from either team in the 3 team trade, but because of perceived fit, I would be fine with it.

[ItsGoTime]

Brogdon/THJ/DFS/Luka/Turner starting is good enough. Hopefully we’re paying THJ no more than $15M so that when we find his better, more defensive minded replacement, he can come off the bench and play the JET role.

[Mavs2021]

Brogdon/THJ/DFS/Luka/Turner starting is good enough. Hopefully we’re paying THJ no more than $15M so that when we find his better, more defensive minded replacement, he can come off the bench and play the JET role.

Come on. You know better than that. They are not giving us Turner and Brogdon, but....

Brogdon/McConnell
Levert/Holiday
Warren/Avdija
Sabonis/Bertans
Gafford/Bitadze

+ 11th and 13th pick!!!

That is a classic Indiana trade, that keeps them competitive.

It´s stupid how much sense this makes on paper for all three teams involved.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Anyway, I think we should keep our eyes on Milwaukee. If they flame out yet again there's going to be massive pressure to make changes- they'll fire Coach Bud at least, and probably look to change the team. The "idea" of KP would surely be a perfect fit with Giannis as well... Lopez is getting older and slower, and his shooting has gone down. If we could manage to get Middleton with something like KP+Brunson that would be a steal.

1) I think they fire Bud and run it back.
2) Even if they want to make changes to get them over the hump, I dont see any way KP enters the picture.

[Mavs2021]

1) I think they fire Bud and run it back.
2) Even if they want to make changes to get them over the hump, I dont see any way KP enters the picture.

What else can they do. They sure as hell could use the mental toughness and play-making of Bogdan Bogdanovic right now.