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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived
I don´t get the negativity about trades like Lavine tbh. He has more leverage than Harden did. We can match the talent exchanged in the Harden trade. Then it´s all just (shitty) draft picks whether from Brooklyn or Dallas.

The real problem is that our front office is bottom five in the league and nobody expects them to be able to

1) convince Lavine to choose Dallas
2) Nelson to successfully mastermind such a trade

Many just don´t want to say it, but all their comments/discussions come down to the fact that they know this complacent FO and his outdated strategies have sucked for many years.

Without Luka this would be the worst team in the Western Conference. Even with a very good player like Ayton or JJJ, we´d just be a shittier Minnesota.

If Cuban still cared, he´d hire a different GM to run this team. Luka doesn´t care, that Cuban has already won his ring. He´s not here for Happy Cuban and his digital eucalyptus currency gambles. He wants to win basketball championships.
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Yup. Upgrading the decision making positions = THE biggest need

Just the last twelve months we’ve had:

The Delon fiasco
The Jrich trade that backfired 
The Reddick trade which was a waste of everybody’s time 
Three draft picks that were just thrown out the window by nailing the guys to the bench for a complete season 

On top of not being able to land even just a MLE guy they desired. Marc declined, Crowder did and probably a few others as well.

This won’t end well with these guys at the head. It’s been long overdue to get some changes here. We’re not competitive enough with these guys.

FFS the last time we’ve won a playoff series is literally a decade ago. 

That’s just not remotely enough.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...-offseason
Josh Green is a top 5 Mavs player...
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(05-30-2021, 08:28 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I don´t get the negativity about trades like Lavine tbh. He has more leverage than Harden did. We can match the talent exchanged in the Harden trade.

Harden is a guy that calls his own shots so him demanding a trade was a surprise to know once. Is Zach LaVine that type of guy? He doesn't strike me as a guy to do that but I don't follow him super closely. He seems like he will politely decline his extension and then it's in the Bulls court to figure out whether they can keep him by creating a winning team in a hurry or trade him. At the TDL they made a big move to get a second star in Vucevic. That shows you they are not giving up just yet. They can create cap space and also have Lauri as a potential trade chip to try to build a better supporting roster or land a third guy. Bulls do not have any more first round draft picks to trade so they are in a tough spot.

If the time comes to trade LaVine I think it's the Bulls who pull the trigger and while LaVine will have some leverage he doesn't have so much leverage that he can pick the exact team. He will want to go to a playoff team like Dallas but there could be other teams in the mix. Warriors have pieces to trade, Clippers have PG, 76ers have a couple trade options, Celtics have a couple options. Not sure if Pacers or Hornets are good enough to be on LaVine's resign list. Knicks have things they could trade, Raptors, Blazers, maybe Pelicans if LaVine wants to play with Zion. Pels who might lose Lonzo anyway could do a S&T for LaVine with no risk of really losing anything.

From a Mavs perspective I think the best chance you have is probably LaVine going to a team like the Pels and the Pels still missing the playoffs so that he doesn't feel any obligation to stay there. Even if the Mavs are over the cap they could construct a trade to get LaVine in Dallas. That to me is more viable than any trade in the near term.

I guess the only way is if Mavs do a 3-way where KP goes somewhere that brings assets back that Bulls would like. Even then Mavs would probably have to tack on more assets to swing for LaVine.
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(05-30-2021, 12:01 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: From a Mavs perspective I think the best chance you have is probably LaVine going to a team like the Pels and the Pels still missing the playoffs so that he doesn't feel any obligation to stay there.
Man, he couldn’t get his Chi team to the playoffs for years, he couldn’t help make it happen after getting a fellow all star in trade this year. If he goes to NO and they only lose Ball, and they still miss the playoffs? Is that a guy to bring in?
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(05-30-2021, 12:45 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Man, he couldn’t get his Chi team to the playoffs for years, he couldn’t help make it happen after getting a fellow all star in trade this year. If he goes to NO and they only lose Ball, and they still miss the playoffs? Is that a guy to bring in?

I mean I am believer in a LaVine + Luka guard combo. That would be insane. I don't care if he couldn't drag a Bulls team to the playoffs. The Pels should be better than they are but they are still young.

https://ontapsportsnet.com/2021/05/13/re...-contract/

Looking at this article LaVine doesn't strike me as a guy who is going to force his way out soon. I think they probably have at least the offseason to try to shake up the roster to build a winning team.

Bulls can create a lot of cap space and Lonzo has said he wants to be there. A Lauri for Lonzo S&T seems like a pretty great match for both teams honestly. Bulls have other pieces that can be traded. So I think its too early for the Mavs to really get into the mix. I imagine what will happen is by next TDL we will see which way the wind is blowing on LaVine. If they aren't a playoff team by that point then he could be on the move.
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Quote:StepBackJay
Harden is a guy that calls his own shots so him demanding a trade was a surprise to know once. Is Zach LaVine that type of guy? He doesn't strike me as a guy to do that but I don't follow him super closely. He seems like he will politely decline his extension and then it's in the Bulls court to figure out whether they can keep him by creating a winning team in a hurry or trade him. At the TDL they made a big move to get a second star in Vucevic. That shows you they are not giving up just yet. They can create cap space and also have Lauri as a potential trade chip to try to build a better supporting roster or land a third guy. Bulls do not have any more first round draft picks to trade so they are in a tough spot.

If the time comes to trade LaVine I think it's the Bulls who pull the trigger and while LaVine will have some leverage he doesn't have so much leverage that he can pick the exact team. He will want to go to a playoff team like Dallas but there could be other teams in the mix. Warriors have pieces to trade, Clippers have PG, 76ers have a couple trade options, Celtics have a couple options. Not sure if Pacers or Hornets are good enough to be on LaVine's resign list. Knicks have things they could trade, Raptors, Blazers, maybe Pelicans if LaVine wants to play with Zion. Pels who might lose Lonzo anyway could do a S&T for LaVine with no risk of really losing anything.

From a Mavs perspective I think the best chance you have is probably LaVine going to a team like the Pels and the Pels still missing the playoffs so that he doesn't feel any obligation to stay there. Even if the Mavs are over the cap they could construct a trade to get LaVine in Dallas. That to me is more viable than any trade in the near term.

I guess the only way is if Mavs do a 3-way where KP goes somewhere that brings assets back that Bulls would like. Even then Mavs would probably have to tack on more assets to swing for LaVine.


Every player in the last year of his contract that is guaranteed a max contract offer in free agency calls his own shot. It´s redickulous to thing that in 2021 a FO would still be dumb enough to acquire a player that specifically tells them, that he´ll sign with another team in 12 months.
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(05-30-2021, 01:13 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Every player in the last year of his contract that is guaranteed a max contract offer in free agency calls his own shot. It´s redickulous to thing that in 2021 a FO would still be dumb enough to acquire a player that specifically tells them, that he´ll sign with another team in 12 months.

Right but did. you see LaVine quoted fairly recently that he would even take a discount if the Bulls continue to build around him? Like he doesn't seem like a guy that's going to hold them hostage.
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(05-29-2021, 05:17 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Heat season is over. I wonder if they are willing to make some bigger changes or take a risk on a player like KP. Duncan Robinson and Tyler Herro tanked their value. Dragic is getting older but would still be a solid backup big for most teams. They don´t have any tradeable picks but young players like Achiuwa, Nunn or Okpala. Could also use one of the older vets with team options are larger capholds to match salaries (Iguodala, Ariza).

Honestly a trade of KP+Terry for Dragic/Robinson+2nd seems like a good trade for both teams.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam...story.html

Butler for KP?
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(05-30-2021, 02:40 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Those trades are less realistic than the one I proposed with OKC. OKC took on Al Horford which is a worse contract than KP. A team like OKC that has to maintain the salary floor would definitely get involved. They were a dump team for multiple contracts this past season. They are years away from competing and have a ton of draft capital, it would make more sense for them to take a shot on KP than a team like Atlanta that is playoff ready. 

Speaking of Atlanta, they also have a starting center and 95 million tied up for next season. They are better off letting Collins walk for nothing and using the cap space than maxing out their cap for KP. 

The trade I mentioned is to free up cap room to sign guys outright which will yield better players than what you are going to likely get for KP.

If it’s unrealistic then kp isn’t going anywhere. They aren’t dumping him for absolutely nothing. It’s unrealistic to think that type of trade happens.
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(05-30-2021, 02:25 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Honestly a trade of KP+Terry for Dragic/Robinson+2nd seems like a good trade for both teams.

Dragic is a 1000 years old and kp is way better than Robinson. Seconds are worthless. That trade makes no sense for the mavs. The only thing that does is generate cap space. 

And we have the ability to clear cap space both of the next 2 offseasons.
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(05-30-2021, 03:01 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: And we have the ability to clear cap space both of the next 2 offseasons.

How? DFS and Brunson will be free agents and if you want to keep them they will get a big raise. Luka will get a max and qualifies for all available kickers. I expect a Rose rule deal starting in the 34.5-35m range (4/155-156m, 5th year player option 46m)
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(05-30-2021, 03:01 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Dragic is a 1000 years old and kp is way better than Robinson. Seconds are worthless. That trade makes no sense for the mavs. The only thing that does is generate cap space. 

And we have the ability to clear cap space both of the next 2 offseasons.


Ok so add on Achiwua instead of a 2nd if you think the Mavs are getting fleeced here. Dragic might be old but what he might lack in production he'll bring in leadership. Dragic still put up 16 ppg on mediocre shooting numbers so it's not like he's on his last legs. 

Robinson is a top 10 shooter in this league and getting him and retaining THJ means the Mavs will always have a knockdown 3pt scorer on the court. Further we can pivot and use our newfound cap space to try and get something like a Markkannen/Holmes combo.

I'm not married to the idea of trading KP, but if the Mavs can get back 2-3 good players then you take the deal and retool. Luka is what we're building around.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(05-30-2021, 02:06 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Right but did. you see LaVine quoted fairly recently that he would even take a discount if the Bulls continue to build around him? Like he doesn't seem like a guy that's going to hold them hostage.

Honestly that quote makes no sense to me at all. The easiest way to take a discount and maintain your leverage to demand team improvements is to play out the final year of his current contract. Once he signs the (discount) extension what incentive do the notoriously cheap Bulls have to keep their word? Regardless of whether he takes a 10% discount or not, an early max extension will eat significantly into their available cap, so it´s counterproductive to his own demands of improving the team. To me this sounds more like him already setting the stage for his exit strategy: I told you. This is all you got me. I want out NOW.
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Brunson is a great backup guard. Nothing more, nothing less. Judging by his usage in this series, I think that's about as much as the Mavs view him too. That's why I'm skeptical on his long-term potential here and giving him big money
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(05-30-2021, 03:49 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Honestly that quote makes no sense to me at all. The easiest way to take a discount and maintain your leverage to demand team improvements is to play out the final year of his current contract. Once he signs the (discount) extension what incentive do the notoriously cheap Bulls have to keep their word? Regardless of whether he takes a 10% discount or not, an early max extension will eat significantly into their available cap, so it´s counterproductive to his own demands of improving the team. To me this sounds more like him already setting the stage for his exit strategy: I told you. This is all you got me. I want out NOW.


I understand you really want Lavine. I really want Lavine too.

CHI isn't trading Lavine. Lavine isn't forcing his way out... at least not yet. It won't be this summer but next summer if anything for Lavine to move. 

Maybe CHI really likes Porzingis...?
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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I think I might hound those who put THJ in their starting lineups for next year. That is such a recipe for disaster! He is the new JR Smith.
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(05-30-2021, 09:46 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: Brunson is a great backup guard. Nothing more, nothing less. Judging by his usage in this series, I think that's about as much as the Mavs view him too. That's why I'm skeptical on his long-term potential here and giving him big money
Correct. Brunson was abused again defensively last night. Need to pump the breaks. He’s a bit player like JJ Barea. If he wants to be a starter then this summer he should be traded. Because he is not a playoff starter in this league

(05-31-2021, 04:54 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think I might hound those who put THJ in their starting lineups for next year. That is such a recipe for disaster! He is the new JR Smith.
Yes. THJ is a bench scorer. He gives effort on defense but it won’t ever be good enough in the playoffs. They targeted him on defense all game long. His scoring is absolutely necessary, but on nights like last night he shouldn’t play more than 15-20 min.
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Man, this last week has been a wild roller coaster.   I really like Hardaway and would want him back, but the issue I keep on running into is if you bring him back it limits how you increase the talent of this team.   

Maybe I am wrong, but I am still in the Derozan camp.   Sure, he doesn't shoot threes, doesn't do well in the advanced stats and is not a good defender.  But I feel like he can play off Luka but not be dependent on him.   Last night, he would have gotten into the lane a lot and shot at least 10 free throws.   I think this team desperately needs more juice.   Maybe I am wrong though.   I think Derozan may be outside my price range though.  Hardaway and Derozan looks good on paper, but I don't think you can get both and not sure it works in real life anyway because both need $ and tons of playing time.  

Then I would try to find veteran's like PJ Tucker types. Fill out the rest of the team with long 3 and D player.  I know...easier said than done.   But I don't think having one non three point shooter causes issues especially if he can create off the dribble and get to the lane.
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