2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Omega_Supreme]

If Lavine wants to play with Luka, he has the power to do that. We need Luka to get in his buddies' ear. Houston didn't want the shitty return they got for Harden but he was still able to force a trade... Lavine would actually have more leverage since he's on the final year of his contract.

This 100% and I am not sure why there is not a unanimous agreement on this. 

Lavine is the most realistic and best option given the agent connection and him being on the last year of his contract. He is the perfect fit to Luka as he is everything that Luka is not (Athletic, quick, explosive) while still being a legit ISO scorer just like Luka that can be a secondary playmaker when needed. 

The biggest thing lost in the Curry trade was that Curry could score unassisted and was a bail out option when Luka was being heavily focused. 

As you said yes I think we can get Lavine for nothing and we may be able to get Thaddeus Young as well. 

I will happily do something like this 

Chicago Receives 
Buddy Hield
Delon Wright 
Tyrell Terry 
2 1st round picks 
2 2nd round picks

Dallas Receives 
Laure Markkenen (Sign and Trade)
Zach Lavine

Sacramento Receives 
Kristaps Porzingis

The hope is that Duffy can be of some help here but he has 2 guys on that team in Vucevic and Lavine so who knows.
You could see something like this or you could see a three way trade with a team like Sacramento involved. 

KP will definitely be traded

[cjeter24]

That´s what I always think, when people moan about Lauri´s defense.

Btw Donnie/Nelson should only make trades with the best FOs in the league in the future. When you literally lose every trade (except the Luka deal) for the last decade, it looks a lot better to lose to Ainge, West or Ujri and not f*cking Vivek and Dolan.

Didn't realize the Knicks were one of the best FO in the league lol. 
I think they are better now but I don't believe that FO was there when we made the deal either.

[ClutchDirk]

This 100% and I am not sure why there is not a unanimous agreement on this. 

Lavine is the most realistic and best option given the agent connection and him being on the last year of his contract. He is the perfect fit to Luka as he is everything that Luka is not (Athletic, quick, explosive) while still being a legit ISO scorer just like Luka that can be a secondary playmaker when needed. 

The biggest thing lost in the Curry trade was that Curry could score unassisted and was a bail out option when Luka was being heavily focused. 

As you said yes I think we can get Lavine for nothing and we may be able to get Thaddeus Young as well. 

I will happily do something like this 

Chicago Receives 
Buddy Hield
Delon Wright 
Tyrell Terry 
2 1st round picks 
2 2nd round picks

Dallas Receives 
Laure Markkenen (Sign and Trade)
Zach Lavine

Sacramento Receives 
Kristaps Porzingis

The hope is that Duffy can be of some help here but he has 2 guys on that team in Vucevic and Lavine so who knows.
You could see something like this or you could see a three way trade with a team like Sacramento involved. 

KP will definitely be traded

As one of the last KP supporters I would do this trade if he indeed wants out or does not play hard this playoff run...

[StepBackJay]

If Lavine wants to play with Luka, he has the power to do that. We need Luka to get in his buddies' ear. Houston didn't want the shitty return they got for Harden but he was still able to force a trade... Lavine would actually have more leverage since he's on the final year of his contract.

Is LaVine the type to demand a trade? I have no idea. His situation is pretty fascinating. I don't see him forcing a trade but who knows. I do think it's an issue that Mavs don't really have anything the Bulls would care about.

[cjeter24]

Regarding Lavine I don't think he's going to be Supermax eligible based on how brutal the guard competition is for those triggers and how he's always on bad teams. So the financial incentive to stay is much lower than Beal. 

I've been wanting Lavine here for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. So I'm all about that. I was saying we should try and sign him as an RFA. Bulls originally got killed on that deal and I said I would have paid him more. He's such a gifted scorer. I'm glad he's finally showed what he's capable of. 

I've had a suspicion for a while that the Mavs have been planning to go into 2022 FA with cap space to try sign Beal/Lavine barring a star falling into their lap. They seem to keep hyping Luka as an attraction and want one more shot at getting someone to come play. Lavine might be that guy next summer.

[cjeter24]

As one of the last KP supporters I would do this trade if he indeed wants out or does not play hard this playoff run...

Even if I thought KP could be a true #2, I'm doing this trade. What we've seen from Lavine he'd be an absolute monster here and be able to be the secondary ball handler we clearly need in our lineups. He's an absolute dream backcourt partner with Luka except the defense will be fairly suspect. 

Who cares tho? They may both score 30ppg haha.

[ClutchDirk]

Even if I thought KP could be a true #2, I'm doing this trade. What we've seen from Lavine he'd be an absolute monster here and be able to be the secondary ball handler we clearly need in our lineups. He's an absolute dream backcourt partner with Luka except the defense will be fairly suspect. 

Who cares tho? They may both score 30ppg haha.

I wanted LM during the draft that year...him and Lavine would be a good combo to have...

[StepBackJay]

I like these trades that will pair KP with Vucevic bc that's a front court the Bulls are dying to put together.

Also I wonder if Bulls offered the Vuc package to the Mavs at the TDL?

[StepBackJay]

I wonder if Mavs could have gotten WCJ, OPJ and two first round picks for KP.

[Aussiebballer]

If you expect the Mavs to have cap space in 2022 then expect a big drop off next season. That would require dumping KP for draft assets and/or not resigning THJ.
Luka’s extension will kick in in the 2022 offseason and will take up a big chunk of the salary cap.

[Branduil]

The main thing with Lavine is I would say you need to put as many defenders around him and Luka as possible since neither guy is known for defense. Still easier to hide a long, tall guard than a 7'2" traffic cone center though.

I think you would probably have to add Brunson for Chicago- they need a PG, and Brunson would lose minutes with Luka/Lavine/THJ here anyway. I would only take Markennen if Lavine+Markennen adds up to a few million less than what we send out. As long as we got rid of JRich we could then target Holmes and re-sign THJ with the rest of cap space. Mavs would also have to add a cheap backup PG with the room exception... since we could have one of Luka/Lavine out at all times it could just be some solid veteran.

Luka / Vet PG
Lavine /THJ / Burke
DFS / Green
Maxi / Markennen
Holmes / WCS / Powell

[cjeter24]

If you expect the Mavs to have cap space in 2022 then expect a big drop off next season. That would require dumping KP for draft assets and/or not resigning THJ.
Luka’s extension will kick in in the 2022 offseason and will take up a big chunk of the salary cap.

We only have 63 mill on the books so far in 2022 not counting cap holds or THJ. 

27.5 of that is all expiring deals or an option we can decline (josh green). Powell is 11 of that sadly but Kleber's deal is non guaranteed. so almost 20 mill you could wipe without even "dumping" a contract. Luka's max will kick in but Luka had a massive cap hold anyways. I want to say the cap difference of waiting to sign him is like somewhere between 10-15 mill. It's significant but not something you couldn't compensate for by moving other players.

I mean it'll be pretty dang clear this summer whether the Mavs are going to keep flexibility open for next summer.

[Aussiebballer]

They could roll the cap space over another year but it would sacrifice improvement and potentially pissing Luka off. They have to communicate very clearly with Luka and his agent the next 2 years as keeping him happy and impressed with the way the team is moving is massively important.
There is no guarantee Luka will be like Dirk, he could rapidly turn into Lebron or KD if he doesn’t think the Mavs can build him title contenting teams.
And no one season 10 years  ago won’t impress him.

---

Effectively wasting 3 offseasons is an easy way to disillusioning your star player.

[cjeter24]

They could roll the cap space over another year but it would sacrifice improvement and potentially pissing Luka off. They have to communicate very clearly with Luka and his agent the next 2 years as keeping him happy and impressed with the way the team is moving is massively important.
There is no guarantee Luka will be like Dirk, he could rapidly turn into Lebron or KD if he doesn’t think the Mavs can build him title contenting teams.
And no one season 10 years  ago won’t impress him.

---

Effectively wasting 3 offseasons is an easy way to disillusioning your star player.

It's an unpopular opinion but I think the Mavs have played the last few years EXTREMELY well. 
They did not look themselves into a roster (*cough cough clippers) and have managed to find some good players. They know what type of players work well with Luka and some that don't. 

We complain about the lack of assets... But after this year we only owe a single 1st to anyone and own the rest. We don't have top end assets but we have plenty of players that we have been able to accumulate that do have decent value. 

Over the next 2 years, our asset pool will continue to widen as we get closer to 2023 and get all of our picks back + the young player development we already have AND we will have at least the ability to have cap space barring making a big trade or FA signing before then. 

We haven't wasted any offseason yet IMO. We haven't added a major piece yet but we have added some good players and than added a bunch of young talent. we haven't been able to see their progression with a proper offseason with the team. 

Mavs have gotten better each of the last few years. It's slow but it's not wasting an offseason. They'll improve this offseason too.

[KillerLeft]

It's an unpopular opinion but I think the Mavs have played the last few years EXTREMELY well. 
They did not look themselves into a roster (*cough cough clippers) and have managed to find some good players. They know what type of players work well with Luka and some that don't. 

I agree...right up to the point where they max extended a guy they weren't sure was a fit yet.

[Aussiebballer]

Have to disagree the only reason the Mavs have gotten better is due to existing assets improving, ie Luka, DFS and the KP tax THJ.
They haven’t used the offseason to add anything to the team. 
Not signing anyone to a bad deal is a pretty low bar for a front office and unacceptable if they intend to play for a title in the next 5 years.

[cjeter24]

I mean we get to much doom and gloom around here but I don't think you guys realize how good of a spot the Mavs are in right now. 

Moving forward they have a top 5 player in the league, a good team around him (albeit no 2nd star), cap space atm, all but 1 draft pick moving forward, some young players with upside that may turn into a better asset, and most importantly an owner willing to spend money and do whatever it takes to win. And Carlisle is a well respected coach no matter what you think about him. 

Now they have to execute and find a way to make all that fit together into a championship quality team.

[cjeter24]

Have to disagree the only reason the Mavs have gotten better is due to existing assets improving, ie Luka, DFS and the KP tax THJ.
They haven’t used the offseason to add anything to the team. 
Not signing anyone to a bad deal is a pretty low bar for a front office and unacceptable if they intend to play for a title in the next 5 years.

They resigned all of their own guys (including KP), signed curry and flipped him for a solid draft pick and Richardson. That's the last 2 offseasons. It's really not new additions but resigning your own guys you acquired is important and you have seen just how important with DFS and Kleber this year. 

Also context for last year, Mavs didn't have actual cap space. And they chose not to spend assets to create the cap space. 

Additionally the thing I like most about the last few offseasons for the Mavs is that they clearly have a vision for the team. Defenders who can shoot. Those guys are highly sought after and unfortunately Mavs didn't close the deal. Criticize away on that. But they also didn't panic and screw up future plans.

Sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't. We've shown that repeatedly with these free agents we went after that flopped. 
Honestly it seems like their is curse on FAs that spurn us. They flame out shortly after haha.

[Branduil]

The 2019 offseason is really indefensible at this point. The only good addition was Curry and we traded him away for a bad player. We could have easily added a legit guard like Brogdon that offseason but Cuban thought he was being clever by signing a "cheaper" version in Delon Wright.

[cjeter24]

I agree...right up to the point where they max extended a guy they weren't sure was a fit yet.

Did they have an option? He was a talented RFA and former all star. He was getting maxed whether we resigned him or not. It hasn't been the best signing for sure. But RFA tends to be like that with guys getting bloated contracts that aren't worth it. I think it's been a trend for a long time now because someone wants to find the next Steph Curry as an RFA. Remember he got a super cheap RFA contract with GS below his max and before his jump/new cba. Also Harden, same thing. 

I find it interesting how frustrated you all are with KP. He's not a great defender and puts up some absolute stinker of games at times but also can put up some big ones. That same description describes Hardaway who everyone seems to be willing to pay alot of money to bring back. That's bad value for KP's deal for sure. But I don't think he'd be viewed any differently if he was making 20 mill around here.