2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Omega_Supreme]

If you were able to get Lauri for J Rich then Lauri fills the need at the 5 and you have MLE to focus on a ball-mover (Dragic).

Luka/Dragic
THJ/Brunson
Wiggins/Green
Maxi/DFS
Lauri/Powell/WCS

+ Minney drafted player somewhere

Rick would have to figure out who to start/rotations once again. Its hard to sit Wiggins, DFS or THJ (especially after he gets a big contract). As good as DFS is you could probably put Maxi in the lineup for DFS and still give DFS a lot of minutes off the bench.

Respectfully I disagree with this approach. 

The Mavs need a wing scorer and iso player and the guy to target by all means is Zach Lavine. He is a Duffy client so I cannot help but think he is the guy that the Mavericks will go after. He is not going to extend and the Bulls are on the verge of losing him for nothing. You have also seen guys that are on the last year of a contract go on the cheap vs. guys already under contract. 

As for KP yes he needs to go and never was a fit. I have long maintained that Luka needs a traditional Big.

[IamDougieFresh]

We would be unstoppable with Mr. Lavine

[Jason Terry]

So it’s probably a given that THJ will be re-signed. The WCS team option will be picked up. We will operate over the cap. 

The offseason really hinges on: 

1. KP trade and the timing of it. What we get in return. How long will it take to make this deal? Do we need to push for it to happen before FA starts? Or do we need to be prepared for it to bleed into next season? 

2. Richardson and what we do with that. The best scenario is he picks up his player option. We definitely need to be collaborating with him and Duffy this offseason. Swapping him with Markkanen may make sense or it may not depending on the KP trade and the MLE. Maybe it would be better to use opted in Richardson to get Graham or Holmes? Maybe it makes sense to keep him. It’s a real wild card situation that’s dependent on other factors. We really don’t want to end up in a scenario where JR opts out and we either: a) lose him for nothing  or b) lose our flexibility post-KP trade by re-signing him

3. What do we do with the exceptions? Some of the smartest deals over the last few years have been MLE deals. I’d like to see us go best player available with the MLE. Get it done early. Get a guard like Dragic/Caruso or get a wing like Batum/Oladipo/OPJ/Fournier..........then leave the BAE as the final move of the offseason. For instance, if we keep Richardson it may make sense to get someone like Gay or Millsap. If we swap him for Markkanen it may make sense to use it on a McConnell/Bazemore/Craig

[Jason Terry]

If you were able to get Lauri for J Rich then Lauri fills the need at the 5 and you have MLE to focus on a ball-mover (Dragic).

Luka/Dragic
THJ/Brunson
Wiggins/Green
Maxi/DFS
Lauri/Powell/WCS

+ Minney drafted player somewhere

Rick would have to figure out who to start/rotations once again. Its hard to sit Wiggins, DFS or THJ (especially after he gets a big contract). As good as DFS is you could probably put Maxi in the lineup for DFS and still give DFS a lot of minutes off the bench.

CHI: Brunson, Wiggins, MIN 1st

GSW: KP

DAL: Lavine and Markkanen 

J Rich to Miami for Dragic. MLE on Theis

Luka/Lavine/DFS/Maxi/Theis

Bench of Dragic/THJ/Markkanen with some WCS-DP plus Green peppered in

[Scott41theMavs]

CHI: Brunson, Wiggins, MIN 1st

GSW: KP

DAL: Lavine and Markkanen 

J Rich to Miami for Dragic. MLE on Theis

Luka/Lavine/DFS/Maxi/Theis

Bench of Dragic/THJ/Markkanen with some WCS-DP plus Green peppered in

I'll say it again - far, far more is going out from the Mavs end for that to happen. Think like DFS and two unprotected firsts, at the very least. You are all grossly exaggerating KP's current value. We're talking about a max contract player who straight-up can't play basketball anymore.

[ItsGoTime]

who straight-up can't play basketball anymore.

No he's not.

[Mavs2021]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woWqSmichOo

Just bookmark it and whenever the trade request moment comes, imagine it´s Luka talking about the MBT.

[Omega_Supreme]

I don’t like Lauri, but I love Lavine and would make that trade everyday and twice on Sundays.

I think the key is guys that can score unassisted.

[ItsGoTime]

I think the key is guys that can score unassisted.

I agree that they have too many guys that can score on the pass and that we need more players that can score unassisted, but we also need someone else that can distribute since we already have so many assisted scorers.

[Omega_Supreme]

I agree that they have too many guys that can score on the pass and that we need more players that can score unassisted, but we also need someone else that can distribute since we already have so many assisted scorers.

Zach Lavine feels both of those needs as he is averaging 5 assist a game. He is the perfect guy to put next to Luka and would be insane given the attention Luka gets. 

Watch this highlight and ask yourself what would this guy do with Luka setting him up: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLKtZsHAGT4

[cjeter24]

I’ll hold back until the end of the series but the outcome will be the deciding factor for me on multiple fronts.

GM
coach
KP
THjr 

Right now GM is obviously the first to go. The KP mess, lack of both oncourt help AND assets remain gigantic problems.

The coach has pulled out two wins but we’re looking at a decade of missing the playoffs and/or getting bounced in the first round. I’m all in favor of firing him if we loose this series. Results matter. 

KP: yikes. The meniscus thing destroyed him, he’s not nearly the same anymore compared to the guy who used to live at the line in the bubble. It’s looking brutal right now.  Probably time to cut losses. What a disappointment. 

THjr: he has done everything (on and off the court) right since coming here. It will come down to the money but I guess $15-20M is his fair market. If we can keep him for that I’d do it. 

I still won't understand why everyone gripes at RC about not winning a playoff series in 10 years despite being massive underdogs in every series. 

The first half of those 10 years is all on Cuban. And he'll even admit that. The rebuild started when we started tanking and I've been very happy with what we have done. KP has been a massive miss as the second star but he's still a good player. He deserves the hate for the way he's played at times but scoring 20 ppg efficiently is good. It's clear he's not a star tho and I doubt he ever gets there with Luka. Maybe he never gets to the bubble form where he looked like a star. That sucks. But I've been saying for a long time, I don't think KP has the ceiling of a true #2. He's a 3 because he can't do anything himself and can't score in the post as a big.

[ItsGoTime]

Zach Lavine feels both of those needs as he is averaging 5 assist a game. He is the perfect guy to put next to Luka and would be insane given the attention Luka gets. 

Watch this highlight and ask yourself what would this guy do with Luka setting him up: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLKtZsHAGT4

I think the ship has sailed on a Lavine trade, at least for the assets we have. Him being a young all star makes him pretty untouchable with our assets, IMO. The time to have pulled that trigger would have been a KP fresh off his all bubble performance. I'd love to be wrong and KP being in their vision going forward, I just can't see why he would be. Only way it works is if he demanded a trade to here and only here and they see him as a PF, or they trade Vuc as well.

Two more things, Lavine for KP has us giving them a lot more. I'm thinking JB and possibly DFS, they just traded OPJ away. I also would be very against LM coming here if we got Lavine from them. Not enough defense. Man, if only we could have done a WCJ and Lavine deal last summer.

[cjeter24]

I'd love for KP to stay here as the #3 guy. But if he does have value and you can get a true #2 in a trade this summer, you got to do it no matter if you really like KP or not. 

Your obvious candidates for trade based on them being in FA next summer are Lavine and Beal. Beal seems unlikely after they surged and started to look pretty decent and make the playoffs. If they are improving, a super max is hard to turn down. 

So Lavine is the big target that's probably available. I realize the desire to trade him for a bag of chips... But if you can't trade for Lavine who are you getting that's giving you an efficient 20 ppg? 

Is Sabonis available? Wiggins was fairly efficient this year. I don't want Wiggins over KP. I think Wiggins and Minny pick for KP is a pipe dream. But I'd be interested in that deal if not. 

The problem with trading him for a bag of chips in order to get him off the team is the stuff he does do, isn't easily replaceable and certainly not with zero assets. 

Granted if he plays like he has in the playoffs all the time that's a different story...

[cjeter24]

I think the ship has sailed on a Lavine trade, at least for the assets we have. Him being a young all star makes him pretty untouchable with our assets, IMO. The time to have pulled that trigger would have been a KP fresh off his all bubble performance. I'd love to be wrong and KP being in their vision going forward, I just can't see why he would be. Only way it works is if he demanded a trade to here and only here and they see him as a PF, or they trade Vuc as well.

Two more things, Lavine for KP has us giving them a lot more. I'm thinking JB and possibly DFS, they just traded OPJ away. I also would be very against LM coming here if we got Lavine from them. Not enough defense. Man, if only we could have done a WCJ and Lavine deal last summer.

I think if Lavine does wind up on the Mavs it's because he asks to be traded before FA or he walks as a FA. 
Asking price is always lower when someone forces their way out and the market for star trades is going to be terrible for a year or 2 due to the lack of first round picks available on good teams. The only playoff team to have extra 1st rounders is the Knicks I believe. So if the Knicks aren't in on you... There's not a large market. Granted I think the Knicks are going to be in on everyone this summer. I could see them trying to trade those for someone big named and sign someone in FA.

[ItsGoTime]

Asking price is always lower when someone forces their way out and the market for star trades is going to be terrible for a year or 2 due to the lack of first round picks available on good teams.

It is always lower, I agree, but what we have to give, doesn't match up with what they would want IMO.

[dynamicalVoid]

I still won't understand why everyone gripes at RC about not winning a playoff series in 10 years despite being massive underdogs in every series. 

The first half of those 10 years is all on Cuban. And he'll even admit that. The rebuild started when we started tanking and I've been very happy with what we have done. KP has been a massive miss as the second star but he's still a good player. He deserves the hate for the way he's played at times but scoring 20 ppg efficiently is good. It's clear he's not a star tho and I doubt he ever gets there with Luka. Maybe he never gets to the bubble form where he looked like a star. That sucks. But I've been saying for a long time, I don't think KP has the ceiling of a true #2. He's a 3 because he can't do anything himself and can't score in the post as a big.

I think this is where I am at with him too.  Unless...he is bluffing and gets to a team he likes and switches to another gear he refused to use here in Dallas.

But...my issues with KP(and I am a big KP supporter here)...he cant seem to dominate around the rim offensively.   With his size and reasonable quickness and athleticism...we should get more from him but dont.   Like someone posted in another thread about Dirk saying KP just doesnt have the skills/tools/moves/fundamentals/whatever to take advantage of even mismatches around the rim.   Every time he puts the ball on the floor I feel it is going to get ripped.   When they pass it to him in the post...teams know to send a wildcatter around the blindside and rip it from him.  This happens so much I cant believe KP doesnt expect it to happen to help prevent it from happening.

KP was disappointing last night on defense with only 2 fouls and half the 4th quarter was over...he had plenty of fouls to give so he could have played aggressively and I didnt see it.   I still think his defense can get there and wouldnt be surprised if he goes to a team he likes and his defense all the sudden is more solid.

My opinion on players like KP...and I dont fault the Mavs for going after him if the value seemed to be there...I would just avoid them.  Unicorn implies that he is some sort of freak that may or may not be good at basketball.   I want basketball first guys...not potential Unicorns or Unicorns that may have potential.

Basketball is a game of skill...especially now a days.   There might be another Shaq that comes around that can dominate while having little to no skill other than dominating the paint...but I would pursue basketball players.   Guys that know how to dribble, pass and dont have ugly shot mechanics.   Also...guys that seem to have a feel for the game.   I dont want players that look like they have only been playing basketball for 2 years....I want guys that perform on the court like they were born with a basketball in their hands.  It seems so simple to me...but I dont work in a front office.

You cant have slow footed guys in todays NBA.   You need guys that can jump quickly.   Guys that can put the ball on the floor but know how to protect it when they do...even in the paint.   Your front court players(Center especially) need to be able to defend...bottom line.  Avoid all guys that arent basketball players first.

[Mavs2021]

I think if Lavine does wind up on the Mavs it's because he asks to be traded before FA or he walks as a FA. 
Asking price is always lower when someone forces their way out and the market for star trades is going to be terrible for a year or 2 due to the lack of first round picks available on good teams. The only playoff team to have extra 1st rounders is the Knicks I believe. So if the Knicks aren't in on you... There's not a large market. Granted I think the Knicks are going to be in on everyone this summer. I could see them trying to trade those for someone big named and sign someone in FA.

Lavine sold his house in Chciago. It was on the market since 2019. I´m no American/Chicago real estate expert, but I assume the pandemic/economic crisis is not the best time to sell high on the property. Seems a pretty telling move imho. He´s ready to move on.

I just talk this into existence. We can easily eat some bad (expiring contracts), so the Bulls can chase Ball.

Trade #1: Brunson + removal of the 2023 lottery protection for Knox (salary dump) + our 2021 1st round pick back.

Trade #2: Porzingis + THJ + Green for Hield + Bagley III + Wright.

Trade #3: Hield + Bagley III + 2021 + 2025 + 2027 1st round picks unprotected + swap rights 2022 + 2024 for Lavine + Young + Aminu + Markkanen.

I think all these trades are fairly balanced.

[ItsGoTime]

I think this is where I am at with him too.  Unless...he is bluffing and gets to a team he likes and switches to another gear he refused to use here in Dallas.

But...my issues with KP(and I am a big KP supporter here)...he cant seem to dominate around the rim offensively.   With his size and reasonable quickness and athleticism...we should get more from him but dont.   Like someone posted in another thread about Dirk saying KP just doesnt have the skills/tools/moves/fundamentals/whatever to take advantage of even mismatches around the rim.   Every time he puts the ball on the floor I feel it is going to get ripped.   When they pass it to him in the post...teams know to send a wildcatter around the blindside and rip it from him.  This happens so much I cant believe KP doesnt expect it to happen to help prevent it from happening.

KP was disappointing last night on defense with only 2 fouls and half the 4th quarter was over...he had plenty of fouls to give so he could have played aggressively and I didnt see it.   I still think his defense can get there and wouldnt be surprised if he goes to a team he likes and his defense all the sudden is more solid.

My opinion on players like KP...and I dont fault the Mavs for going after him if the value seemed to be there...I would just avoid them.  Unicorn implies that he is some sort of freak that may or may not be good at basketball.   I want basketball first guys...not potential Unicorns or Unicorns that may have potential.

Basketball is a game of skill...especially now a days.   There might be another Shaq that comes around that can dominate while having little to no skill other than dominating the paint...but I would pursue basketball players.   Guys that know how to dribble, pass and dont have ugly shot mechanics.   Also...guys that seem to have a feel for the game.   I dont want players that look like they have only been playing basketball for 2 years....I want guys that perform on the court like they were born with a basketball in their hands.  It seems so simple to me...but I dont work in a front office.

You cant have slow footed guys in todays NBA.   You need guys that can jump quickly.   Guys that can put the ball on the floor but know how to protect it when they do...even in the paint.   Your front court players(Center especially) need to be able to defend...bottom line.  Avoid all guys that arent basketball players first.

All of the things you listed are things that KP could have been working on if he wasn't rehabbing an injury for the last 3 offseasons/years. That's why I am in no way believing the book is written on him as a player. HE HAS TALENT! Realizing that talent and working on it are the concern for me.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

The problem with trading him for a bag of chips in order to get him off the team is the stuff he does do, isn't easily replaceable and certainly not with zero assets. 

Trade him for a bag of chips and sign Lauri for less than half the money.  He's a better shooter than KP and equally shitty on defense.

---

Lavine sold his house in Chciago. It was on the market since 2019. I´m no American/Chicago real estate expert, but I assume the pandemic/economic crisis is not the best time to sell high on the property. Seems a pretty telling move imho. He´s ready to move on.

Housing prices are through the roof right now.  People are routinely getting way above their asking price. Probably the best sellers market in recent history.

[Mavs2021]

Trade him for a bag of chips and sign Lauri for less than half the money.  He's a better shooter than KP and equally shitty on defense.

That´s what I always think, when people moan about Lauri´s defense.

Btw Donnie/Nelson should only make trades with the best FOs in the league in the future. When you literally lose every trade (except the Luka deal) for the last decade, it looks a lot better to lose to Ainge, West or Ujri and not f*cking Vivek and Dolan.