2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[ItsGoTime]

His last deal was a paid for potential - bribe him away as a RFA - deal. In NY he didn't live up to his contract.

Also, is it coincidence that he played off the bench in Atl and got this big deal, went to NY, crapped the bed as a starter, came to Dal, built his rep back coming off the bench?

[Scott41theMavs]

He's basically one of the best bench players because he's a specialist in what he can do. 

In his defense (as someone who will go brown in the pants if we pay him his current contract or more), his one area of strength - scoring ability, shooting, and the ability almost to be able to create his own shot - is one of the league's most valuable.

[dynamicalVoid]

Also, is it coincidence that he played off the bench in Atl and got this big deal, went to NY, crapped the bed as a starter, came to Dal, built his rep back coming off the bench?

Shamgod angling for a promo.

[ItsGoTime]

I'd bet on about 70-80 Mio /4 years with a player option.

If we pay him any more than $15M starting, I hope it's for 2 years, cause that might be the only redeeming quality of the contract.

[cow]

Luckily before his latest outburst, THJ spent a good month sucking eggs.  Hopefully the MBT are paying attention.

[ItsGoTime]

In his defense (as someone who will go brown in the pants if we pay him his current contract or more), his one area of strength - scoring ability, shooting, and the ability almost to be able to create his own shot - is one of the league's most valuable.

Hehe, you said defense in the same sentence that says good things about THJ. 


It's great to have him off the bench in that specialist role. I have to wonder how much of it is him (who came here shooting 33ish% from 3) or is it the Luka effect/team scheme/him working HARD at it knowing he has a full green light on a team that has promise to go somewhere. I then have to wonder if that is more plug and play with a confident shooter that works hard on his craft, or can no other player do what he does?

[dynamicalVoid]

I dont know about career numbers...

But one thing that has kept me a little cautious on "hating" on Collins since he doesnt jump off the screen the few times I have watched him...and Holmes has the few times I have watched him...

Holmes FG% is better than Collins even though it seems like I watch Collins FG% since everyone on here talks about him...Collins is always pretty good at like 7 for 11(not including 3%)

Kind of surprised that Holmes is even higher FG% wise.  And seems very mobile?

Im still questioning why we should pay Collins near max.  Luka factor?

Someone please break it down for me.  Please tell me that he is very capable in PNR and can also shoot the 3...but provide video evidence.   Why is Collins so coveted at near Max?

[Mavs2021]

Anyone seen the numbers SG Khyri Thomas put up on the 10 day contract for Houston so far? 

21.5 PPG

57/40/100

4.0 SPG

1.5 BPG

Loved him out of college, wanted him over Brunson in 2018, then he was buried and often injured on the Pistons bench. Maybe he has figured it out. Okay it´s two games and basically all garbage minutes in Houston, but playing next to Luka you get as much defensive attention as the tanking Rockets.

He also shot 51.1 FG% and 40.6% 3pt FG% in three years of college, besides being a two time Big East defensive player of the year like Ewing, Mutombo, Iverson, Dunn, Okafor and Thabeet.

Maybe that´s the smart way to get Marcus Smart on a really cheap contract. Look for these guys before they get paid. Just because Iwundu didn´t work out, doesn´t mean Thomas can´t. I like the general idea behind this. Keep trying. It´s what the Sixers did during The Process. Play American Idol with 10 day contracts till Covington stuck around.

[Mapka]

If we pay him any more than $15M starting, I hope it's for 2 years, cause that might be the only redeeming quality of the contract.

15 Mio would be just under 70 Mio/4 years, if I'm not missing anything.

[Mavs2021]

I dont know about career numbers...

But one thing that has kept me a little cautious on "hating" on Collins since he doesnt jump off the screen the few times I have watched him...and Holmes has the few times I have watched him...

Holmes FG% is better than Collins even though it seems like I watch Collins FG% since everyone on here talks about him...Collins is always pretty good at like 7 for 11(not including 3%)

Kind of surprised that Holmes is even higher FG% wise.  And seems very mobile?

Im still questioning why we should pay Collins near max.  Luka factor?

Someone please break it down for me.  Please tell me that he is very capable in PNR and can also shoot the 3...but provide video evidence.   Why is Collins so coveted at near Max?

Well I´d throw the counter argument: Why was Porzingis, but Collins is not?

Best season of Collins: 21.6 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 1.6 BPG, 1.5 APG, 58/40/80
Best season of Porzingis: 22.7 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 2.4 BPG, 1.2 APG, 44/40/79

Seems if I straight swap them, I get a healthy player on the same level at a cheaper salary. You look at the on/off stats, Collins has been a huge net positive ever since his 2nd season.

I think the Hawks would be very interested in Kleber. He´s basically what they are missing, a stretch 4/5 to spare the inevitable Gallinari injuries and back-up Capela. Well they have a better version of it in Collins already, but it all depends how bad this Collins situation truly is/was. We have seen with Gobert, that some situations can be fixed.

It would probably be the easiest solution to our off-season.

Kleber/Richardson for Dunn + Collins S&T. Maybe you can even get Reddish. 36/26/82 seasonal shooting. Yikes. 
 
Offer THJ 60/2 with the 2nd year partially guarantee like $5M.

Then you can try to move THJ (or/and Porzingis) in a Lavine deal. Either way it´s a win-win for THJ with 35M guaranteed for a year. 

Next season:

Doncic/Brunson
THJ/Dunn
DFS/Green
Collins/Powell
Porzingis/WCS

At least we make Jeff Schwartz happy, cause either way he gets another of his clients paid like Kemba Walker.

[Jason Terry]

Mavs get Kemba and Nesmith

Celtics get KP, Burke and Mavs 2nd

[dynamicalVoid]

Is THJ considered a 6th man?  He starts on a lot of team or no?

This probably doesn't mean jack...but I looked up the salaries of 6th man award winners and I believe THJ is getting paid a lot more than those guys.  I looked this up like a month ago and it doesn't take into account cap increases or inflation or whatever else could effect pricing...so it's not perfect.  I believe Jamal Crawford was getting around 10M per and same with Lou William's.  Eric Gordon had a large contract though if I remember right.  Anyway...if I remember correctly I came away thinking THJ was getting paid well compared to those guys.

[StepBackJay]

Is THJ considered a 6th man?  He starts on a lot of team or no?

This probably doesn't mean jack...but I looked up the salaries of 6th man award winners and I believe THJ is getting paid a lot more than those guys.  I looked this up like a month ago and it doesn't take into account cap increases or inflation or whatever else could effect pricing...so it's not perfect.  I believe Jamal Crawford was getting around 10M per and same with Lou William's.  Eric Gordon had a large contract though if I remember right.  Anyway...if I remember correctly I came away thinking THJ was getting paid well compared to those guys.

THJ is sort of borderline starter/6th man.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/202...ing-guard/ gives you a good look. THJ & Harris round out the current top of the list of guys in their "tier." I think Terrance Ross at 13.5 gives you the floor of what he could get. Kennard's extension is also around that number. Remember that Bog just got 18 mil but he was and RFA.

All that to say I think its pretty clear to me that the salary range for THJ will be 13-18 mil/yr based on comps.

[dirkfansince1998]

Last chance to make a big free agent signing for quite some time. If the Mavs want to keep THJ I would prefer an extra year over a big starting salary.

Let´s say his options are 3/55 or 3/60 with another team. Mavs could use his bird rights and offer 4/62.7. Starting at 14m.

[StepBackJay]

Mavs get Kemba and Nesmith

Celtics get KP, Burke and Mavs 2nd

Yuk. Kemba is a good offensive player but his contract is no good. I think Celtics probably will be trying to dump his deal somewhere. They might just give you Kemba for nothing.

I could see a scenario where they are moving Kemba for Horford to shore up their frontcourt and paying OKC to take him. The OKC might move him again to some team desperate for talent.

[StepBackJay]

I dont know about career numbers...

But one thing that has kept me a little cautious on "hating" on Collins since he doesnt jump off the screen the few times I have watched him...and Holmes has the few times I have watched him...

Holmes FG% is better than Collins even though it seems like I watch Collins FG% since everyone on here talks about him...Collins is always pretty good at like 7 for 11(not including 3%)

Kind of surprised that Holmes is even higher FG% wise.  And seems very mobile?

Im still questioning why we should pay Collins near max.  Luka factor?

Someone please break it down for me.  Please tell me that he is very capable in PNR and can also shoot the 3...but provide video evidence.   Why is Collins so coveted at near Max?

I am not sure we should be paying Collins near max either. He does have an outside game, so like Powell if Powell could shoot outside and do other things offensively other than catch lobs. You have one guy that's both a rim-roller and can stretch the floor which Mavs would like. Again I don't think its worth near max money at this point, especially if you have to send assets to ATL and/or forfeit THJ.

The only way I am interested is if ATL likes Powell as a suitable cheaper replacement (which might work well for their needs). So Mavs start out with 34 mil, send Powells 11 (that gets them up to 45), then sign Collins for 22-25 range which still leaves enough money for THJ. As it is THJ could fall 13-18 range which means there's not enough money to get in the Collins 22-max range.

In this scenario you have something like:

Luka/Brunson
THJ/Burke (BAE shooter?)
DFS/Green
Collins/WCS (rMLE)
KP/Maxi

I know the Mavs offered Maxi at the TDL but hopefully that was a one-time offer to take advantage of Collins low cap-hold. 

Mavs could also try to do J Rich extension + Powell for salary matching Collins if that's cap legal that would give Mavs a lot more tools for keeping guys and improving their roster.

[StepBackJay]

The other option would be Maxi + Powell for Collins if you can do the 125% trade match on his first year. The issue with any of these deals is that the Hawks already spent money on vets so unless those guys get moved they are going to want cheaper role guys given that Trae's max extension kicks in next year.

I am sure they want something for Collins but its probably a pick or young player on a rookie scale contract. I am not sure Mavs have something they want.

[dirkfansince1998]

Am I the only one that is completly out on a Collins/KP pairing? Surefire way to build a bottom ten defense.

[ClutchDirk]

Am I the only one that is completly out on a Collins/KP pairing? Surefire way to build a bottom ten defense.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsYWCHF.../giphy.gif

[omahen]

Mavs could use his bird rights and offer 4/62.7. Starting at 14m.

I agree with Stepback about the range of salary (13-18) THJ might get, depending on the playoff performance. I also think that 60/4 is a realistic option for a guard of THJ caliber and it would leave Mavs with another 20 mil to spend in FA, if they decide to keep him. I think Mavs need to promote Brunson and Green to third and fourth guard in the rotation with Burke as a reliable reserve. This means there is room for one guard from FA, assuming Mavs go under the cap way. If they decide to keep THJ, they have an interesting dilemma, who to start. Either THJ or Brunson. Will defense be good enough next to Luka to contend? It would leave Mavs 20 mil or so to spend on the second position of need, the PF or big wing type. But unfortunately, there is no one worthy of that money available. I think Collins is the only PF worthy of 20+ mil in this FA class. But sure you could execute a SnT. I am not really a fan of adding a rim running center to existing big rotation.

The alternative is to go "rich" at guard with Conley, Lowry or Ball with the likes of New York lifting the prices and spend the remaining change at the MLE level for a back-up PF.

Realistically, only trading KP provides ability for bigger shuffling around Luka.