2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Building from this question with frontcourt filled with Holmes and Markkanen. My best option would be Charlotte or a three way with Indiana for Brogdon+. But lets assume these two are not on the table. Would you trade KP for:
- Kemba and a couple of picks (not really interested in any of their young guards/SF)?
- Dinwiddie, Shamet and Claxton? Not really sure where to finds minutes for everyone
- one for Kamm with Detroit  taking a shortcut from rebuild: Hayes, Bey and 2021 FRP (let's say pick is not top3, otherwise no way from Detroit)?
- Beverly, Kennard and Zubac (he would have to be traded to third team as there would be no place with Holmes at C)?
- Robinson, Dragic and Achiuwa?
- FVV, Hood and pick?

I like any kind of Brogdon+ deal. The other deals don't seem likely at all. Kemba is an interesting name. To me they trade him for Horford or something and then if OKC winds up with him would you take Kemba on in some kind of dump-package? I certainly wouldn't give up KP but I could see Mavs considering Kemba if he can be had at a bargain.

That being said even if you get Kemba for "cheap" like Powell for instance, it's tough to play him. Kemba is so small he gets attacked by the opposition and is also injury prone. I would rather go with a different option even if I got him for "free".

[StepBackJay]

It's easy - if KP is healthy every team is in for a Kings ransom.

He is not. So teams will offer no real value.

We can gift away him or keep him as a lottery ticket ourself.

I don't agree with any of this.

[StepBackJay]

The ship has sailed on KP being healthy and returning equal value.  He also is not as transcendent, dominant or impactful as an AD or Embiid so having him for 60% of your games isn't as easy of a pill to swallow.

As far as who would want him, I think the list will be pretty short.  It needs to be a team ready for a championship push and not risk averse.  I don't really see the desire for an up-and-coming team to trade for him which is why the Charlotte idea doesn't make a lot of sense as they'd be much better with organic growth at this stage of their team's development.  Maybe you look at bottom feeding teams but none of those team names jump out to me as being a fit either.  Maybe you could sucker the new Rockets ownership...

I believe several teams would be interested, it just comes down the price. If the asking price is the moon, well then no team is going to want him. There aren't enough stars to go around and KP has enough upside to be considered a star or near-star.

I have brought up the Wizards as an example before. Like would they trade their whole team + picks for KP to create a big 3 that is actually an interesting basketball team? What's their other option? Beal and Westbrook are both all-stars that won't be around that much longer, Beal in particular. KP would make that team pretty interesting.

I bring them up bc there was an article that the Wizards were "monitoring" the KP situation earlier this year. Again if you are the Wiz, what's your best chance to create a 3-star team that people actually think has a chance to do anything?

That's just one example, not saying Mavs would be interested in Wiz pieces but there are others (GSW oft mentioned).

[StepBackJay]

KP makes sense for the Pelicans. Only player that's a clear upgrade for the Mavs is Ingram. I just don't find it realistic.

An Ingram, KP swap doesn't sound that crazy to me. BI has better production but KP fits Zion better. Mavs might have to include something else like taking Adams for example.

[StepBackJay]

Even Atlanta. They have been disappointed with Dunn, so maybe Collins + Dunn for Kleber + Richardson.

I don't think J Rich will opt in bc his floor is probable MLE and his opt-in is close enough that he can get close or more than he would make in an opt-in plus choose his destination. I don't see a scenario where J Rich opts in without a trade and extend.

[KillerLeft]

Outside the box idea. Is a Heat trade legal?

KP + Richardson for Robinson + Achiuwa + Dragic + picks

Sold!

But I doubt the Heat would want Porzingis. Seems like defense is really important to them.

[StepBackJay]

Heat are going to get Lowry probably so Mavs could easily get Dragic in that scenario. I could see a Dragic, Holmes + some other piece as one path. Dragic will miss games so its hard to depend on him.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Can't see the Mavs trading KP to a team within their division. Maybe if they offer Ingram though...

Yeah, you know how it works. He goes to N.O. gets his game and health right, and comes back and busts your ass, every time they play. Trading within the division is always a bad move.

[StepBackJay]

Mavs will face stiff competition for Holmes if they want to go that route at all. Raptors and Hornets both had interest at the TDL. Mavs have a center at the moment KP, so if they plan on keeping KP then Holmes is sort of a bonus for them. This is different from the Raptors or Hornets who would really value Holmes. I honestly think Mavs will have eyes more towards Collins. He probably fits more the vision of what they want to do with KP and even if KP is traded at some point he would still make sense.

I do like Theis and Baynes as cheaper options should the Mavs be shopping for a cheaper rotation big.

[StepBackJay]

Collins numbers have definitely dipped this year. That along with his usage in ATL (ie getting a lesser role in the offense) makes me think he's very gettable.

He had two seasons at 20/10, so it's not surprising he would turn down a big extension.

This year more like 17/7 at 29 mpg. Mavs might actually be able to get him with just a healthy contract that ATL won't be inclined to match. It is curious that the Hawks didn't trade him at the TDL but my guess is they feel like that could get similar value in a S&T. Salary matching will be harder in a S&T so honestly I am not sure what they are thinking.

[Scott41theMavs]

Collins numbers have definitely dipped this year. That along with his usage in ATL (ie getting a lesser role in the offense) makes me think he's very gettable.

He had two seasons at 20/10, so it's not surprising he would turn down a big extension.

This year more like 17/7 at 29 mpg. Mavs might actually be able to get him with just a healthy contract that ATL won't be inclined to match. It is curious that the Hawks didn't trade him at the TDL but my guess is they feel like that could get similar value in a S&T. Salary matching will be harder in a S&T so honestly I am not sure what they are thinking.

You could argue that Collins is a must if you get rid of KP. KP isn't bringing back another star (if we somehow got Brogdon for him, Halleluka), and in a Western Conference in which all the top teams have two, if not three, stars, you have to have at least two. I think that what Luka has done with this ramshackle group - being in competition for the 5th seed in a tough Western Conference, even in the midst of the Mavs' Covid debacle - shows that he could do a great deal himself with the right supporting cast. I'd still rather have a star or two with him on the roster. Collins is a great candidate, and the other should be a backcourt stud to ease Luka's load. Holmes and DFS rounding out the starting lineup? That team would be a contenda, at least in terms of starting lineup.

[cow]

If Toronto and Charlotte are gunning for Holmes, I'd put us in 3red place as far as recruiting ability.  Maybe you could money whip him but I'd assume Charlotte would do the same thing.

I believe several teams would be interested, it just comes down the price. If the asking price is the moon, well then no team is going to want him. There aren't enough stars to go around and KP has enough upside to be considered a star or near-star.

I have brought up the Wizards as an example before. Like would they trade their whole team + picks for KP to create a big 3 that is actually an interesting basketball team? What's their other option? Beal and Westbrook are both all-stars that won't be around that much longer, Beal in particular. KP would make that team pretty interesting.

I bring them up bc there was an article that the Wizards were "monitoring" the KP situation earlier this year. Again if you are the Wiz, what's your best chance to create a 3-star team that people actually think has a chance to do anything?

That's just one example, not saying Mavs would be interested in Wiz pieces but there are others (GSW oft mentioned).

If I put on my Wizards GM hat, I don't want KP.  What's the ceiling for that team?  Making it to the second round of the playoffs?  Depending on how many bits and pieces I'd have to trade, that big three might be a worse team than what I have now.  If I'm sure Beal is leaving, I'd just trade him and restart the rebuild process while Westbrooks racks up as many stats as he'd like.  

I think KP's demand is going to be pretty low unless the Mavs are having a fire sale.  He's expensive and has shown as many injuries as he has flashes of greatness.  Everyone here what's to trade to the dude, so ask yourself what you'd be willing to pay for him if he were available based on what we've seen in his Dallas tenure.

[Kammrath]

Would you trade KP for:
- Kemba and a couple of picks (not really interested in any of their young guards/SF)?
- Dinwiddie, Shamet and Claxton? Not really sure where to finds minutes for everyone
- one for Kamm with Detroit  taking a shortcut from rebuild: Hayes, Bey and 2021 FRP (let's say pick is not top3, otherwise no way from Detroit)?
- Beverly, Kennard and Zubac (he would have to be traded to third team as there would be no place with Holmes at C)?
- Robinson, Dragic and Achiuwa?
- FVV, Hood and pick?

NO on Kemba.

NO on Dinwiddie and company.

HELL YES on Hayes, Bey and 2021 FRP!!!!!

NO on Bev and company.

YES on Robinson, Achiuwa and Dragic.

NO on FVV.

[omahen]

NO on Kemba.

NO on Dinwiddie and company.

HELL YES on Hayes, Bey and 2021 FRP!!!!!

NO on Bev and company.

YES on Robinson, Achiuwa and Dragic.

NO on FVV.

Looks like KP is not that bad

[Kammrath]

Looks like KP is not that bad

I do not think he is bad in a vacuum and never have. I think he is a BAD FIT on this team and needs to go.

[omahen]

I think he is a BAD FIT on this team and needs to go.

Even so, looks like you are not THAT desperate to see him go

[StepBackJay]

If Toronto and Charlotte are gunning for Holmes, I'd put us in 3red place as far as recruiting ability.  Maybe you could money whip him but I'd assume Charlotte would do the same thing.


If I put on my Wizards GM hat, I don't want KP.  What's the ceiling for that team?  Making it to the second round of the playoffs?  Depending on how many bits and pieces I'd have to trade, that big three might be a worse team than what I have now.  If I'm sure Beal is leaving, I'd just trade him and restart the rebuild process while Westbrooks racks up as many stats as he'd like.  

I think KP's demand is going to be pretty low unless the Mavs are having a fire sale.  He's expensive and has shown as many injuries as he has flashes of greatness.  Everyone here what's to trade to the dude, so ask yourself what you'd be willing to pay for him if he were available based on what we've seen in his Dallas tenure.

I just disagree. If you are the Wiz you get KP, try it for a year and then sell everything off if it doesn't work. I just don't think KP's "demand" is low at all. Doesn't mean it's amazingly high but Mavs can get back value if they so desire. The jury's out on whether or not they will move him. I am going to keep riding the fence until probably the offseason.

[Kammrath]

Even so, looks like you are not THAT desperate to see him go

I just think there are other viable trades I would do rather than some of those. But maybe I am wrong about what is viable.

[omahen]

I just think there are other viable trades I would do rather than some of those. But maybe I am wrong about what is viable.

That's sort of what I was trying to ask, but wasn't clear. Not to compare offers with each other, but look at each individual offer and choose between take the offer or keep KP. As if only that specific offer was on the table and nothing more. I think none of the offers is unrealistically bad, I could made arguments for any of them why I think they are fair.

Taking into account that you know you can get Holmes and Markkanen in FA. So that one can see the whole team building perspective.

[mvossman]

The ship has sailed on KP being healthy and returning equal value.  He also is not as transcendent, dominant or impactful as an AD or Embiid so having him for 60% of your games isn't as easy of a pill to swallow.

As far as who would want him, I think the list will be pretty short.  It needs to be a team ready for a championship push and not risk averse.  I don't really see the desire for an up-and-coming team to trade for him which is why the Charlotte idea doesn't make a lot of sense as they'd be much better with organic growth at this stage of their team's development.  Maybe you look at bottom feeding teams but none of those team names jump out to me as being a fit either.  Maybe you could sucker the new Rockets ownership...

It is too early to make this call.  If he goes ham in the playoffs (ideally leading to at least second round) injury free then his value shoots up.  Recency bias will have teams imagining what he could be for them and willing to swallow his load management and injury issues.  The irony is that if that happens the FO will probably have similar mentality and it will be less likely they will want to move him.