2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[RedFlag41]

I would be okay with a trade of KP for Gordon Hayward if he can play the shooting guard position for the Mavs.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Yeah.......so if I’m Charlotte there’s no way I’m trading that dude for KP

I know.  The original conversation had us getting Washington AND Bridges.

So, you are the guy who wants to stick us with 31 year old, often injured, Gordon Hayward.  BTW, I like that for you (Charlotte) as 25 year old, often injured, KP fits your (their) timeline better.  But, your roster is essentially complete after the deal and I still have holes to fill.  

So, what are you giving me for the age difference?  Do I get  McDaniel and the unprotected 23?

It is kind of an interesting thought exercise.  To me, I think Gordon's timeline is why they deal youth (and one year of Rozier) for KP.  In your mind, they want to trade their injury issue for ours.

[Mavs2021]

You aren't Charlotte. MJ is. So there's a clear chance.

I have actual no feel what MJ would do. Most likely offer would be Rozier + their 2021 1st round pick, maybe 2020 heavily protected.

If you guarantee me that we´ll get Alperen Sengun with one of the picks, I´d do it.

Kid is having a breakout season in Turkey, arguably the 2nd best league in Europe. Currently 2nd in points, 2nd in rebounds, 2nd in blocks in the league at age 18. His footwork, fakes and strength in the post remind me a bit of a center version of Luka. Also seems an athletic strong finisher through contact as a roller.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Bill Simmons says if Clippers get bounced in the first round, Balmer is likely shipping off George.      So how about PG  for KP + DFS

[Mavs2021]

Bill Simmons says if Clippers get bounced in the first round, Balmer is likely shipping off George.      So how about PG  for KP + DFS

Got to add Kleber + Richardson instead of DFS, otherwise we don´t have the capspace to sign the pissed off and opted out Kawhi.

I´m only half kidding. Unless Kawhi´s LA ties are super-strong, I don´t see a reason why he´d stay there for Porzingis.

And for those reasons the PG13 trade threat does not seem credible to me, not with Kawhi sitting on a player option.

[Branduil]

I could actually see the Charlotte trade happening, simply because they have a glut of guards they're about to need to pay, their center situation is really bad, and the Mavs have a friendly history trading with them. Selling high on Rozier now makes sense from them and allows them to free up money and minutes for a 3-guard rotation of Graham/Lamelo/Monk.

The Mavs would also open up additional salary while presumably adding 2 starters for the price of 1. So the Mavs could then easily sign someone like Holmes and still bring back THJ, or even go after someone else bigger than that.

[Jason Terry]

I know.  The original conversation had us getting Washington AND Bridges.

So, you are the guy who wants to stick us with 31 year old, often injured, Gordon Hayward.  BTW, I like that for you (Charlotte) as 25 year old, often injured, KP fits your (their) timeline better.  But, your roster is essentially complete after the deal and I still have holes to fill.  

So, what are you giving me for the age difference?  Do I get  McDaniel and the unprotected 23?

It is kind of an interesting thought exercise.  To me, I think Gordon's timeline is why they deal youth (and one year of Rozier) for KP.  In your mind, they want to trade their injury issue for ours.

Hayward, McDaniel and 2023 unprotected for KP seems like a fair deal. I’d take Hayward over KP because if Hayward is hurt it’s easier to win. KP’s position is so critical defensively on a nightly basis that without him we need to play totally different. Hayward is an easier plug and play. Also the KP ego etc factor for team morale. Mcdaniel would be an ideal prospect at a need position and the pick could be used in a big trade down the line. I would still want the mavs to steal away Graham as well. While Hayward and DFS together would have issues it’s possible they could be ideal fits together on the court against small ball teams and especially in the playoffs when teams go small. Just looking at lakers last year they used AD at C and LBJ at PF in the finals. I think Doe Doe could play the 4 in that scenario

[Mavs2021]

I could actually see the Charlotte trade happening, simply because they have a glut of guards they're about to need to pay, their center situation is really bad, and the Mavs have a friendly history trading with them. Selling high on Rozier now makes sense from them and allows them to free up money and minutes for a 3-guard rotation of Graham/Lamelo/Monk.

The Mavs would also open up additional salary while presumably adding 2 starters for the price of 1. So the Mavs could then easily sign someone like Holmes and still bring back THJ, or even go after someone else bigger than that.

I don´t see much of an argument with the three guards to be honest. They could just let Monk or Graham walk imho. The better pro-Porzingis argument would be that he´s a still (perceived as) a massive talent upgrade over the available free agent centers like Kanter, Noel, Drummond, Theis, Holmes, Z. Collins, Ibaka, Dieng, Dedmon.

When you present the argument as Rozier + Theis vs. Porzingis, then it seems favourable for Porzingis.

I just want Sengun. He´s projected mid to late 1st this year, cause he´s an old school big in the vain of Nurkic, Valanciunas and Jokic. Good lord, please not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhNh5zNHOE

[Hooper21]

Sengun looks like he's watched hours of Kevin McHale highlights.

[Kammrath]

Sengun.

Thanks for introducing him to me. 

Definitely intrigued and I love the stat stuffing at his age. Big question mark on length and D for me though.

[MAVS-SLO]

Anyone been paying attention to Michael Porter living up to all the (pre-injury) draft hype and turning into Kevin Durant in the absence of Murray?

Averaging 25.5 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 1.4 BPG, while shooting 56/47/80.

Also Jokic, Murray and MPJ are nearly shooting 50/40/90 COMBINED for the SEASON, , plus Aaron Gordon as a 4th option.

This is what Doncic will have to compete with for the next decade

You realize all these other teams are f******g loaded with young talent, too.

Combos like Embiid/Simmons or Tatum/Brown that are at least level with Luka/Porzingis, but have coaches/GMs with proven FA drawing power, because they have actually won a play-off series in the last decade.

We argue about Devonte Graham.

We can all agree that those teams have stronger/deeper roster than we have, but we are not so bad. We are just few pieces away from taking step forward. And teams mentioned are bulding their roster for much longer than we.

There to main 2 mistakes our front office did/is doing. First is draft choices. I'm not going back to the history, but we should just look to the last draft and see on which players we passed. After that is development of young players. 

Other mistake is living in free agency dreams. On how many good players we passed living in FA drams of Giannis, Gobert, Leonard and others? We should realize that we are not likely destination for FA stars and try quietly targeting good players who could be good fit there. Better forget Derozan, Lowry, Collins, Lonzo and others beacuse they will not sign there. Pursue and build on a players who want to be here.

Similar thing is in trade rumours. We don't have many assest's so we should be looking for a teams when they are a sellers and buy low. Buy low and hope that player will fit there and take a gamble on potential on ''reclamation projects''.

As an example, is Gordon a star? He isn't, he is just good fit in Denver, and the trade for him when price was low.

But with all these problems, trades we lost we are still 5 in the west so that also speaks something. 

Looking forward in offseason:

- Extend THJ for reasonable price (i think we could also use his bird rights?)
- Go after Spencer Dinwiddie as J-Rich replacement. After a injury i don't think that price will be too high.
- If J-Rich opt-in trade them for some other reclamation project (J-Rich + picks for Bagley?)

[Mapka]

Hayward, McDaniel and 2023 unprotected for KP seems like a fair deal. I’d take Hayward over KP because if Hayward is hurt it’s easier to win. KP’s position is so critical defensively on a nightly basis that without him we need to play totally different. Hayward is an easier plug and play. Also the KP ego etc factor for team morale. Mcdaniel would be an ideal prospect at a need position and the pick could be used in a big trade down the line. I would still want the mavs to steal away Graham as well. While Hayward and DFS together would have issues it’s possible they could be ideal fits together on the court against small ball teams and especially in the playoffs when teams go small. Just looking at lakers last year they used AD at C and LBJ at PF in the finals. I think Doe Doe could play the 4 in that scenario

Are we talking the same Hayward? Don't get me wrong - I would have loved getting him last FA - even at this contract.
But he's not at all plug'n play, couldn't mesh with Boston young players at all and his ego made him leave Utah for not maxing him as a RFA.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Hayward seems to be working out well in Charlotte.  Don't imagine them trying to move him, only to add pieces around him.

[StepBackJay]

I know.  The original conversation had us getting Washington AND Bridges.

So, you are the guy who wants to stick us with 31 year old, often injured, Gordon Hayward.  BTW, I like that for you (Charlotte) as 25 year old, often injured, KP fits your (their) timeline better.  But, your roster is essentially complete after the deal and I still have holes to fill.  

So, what are you giving me for the age difference?  Do I get  McDaniel and the unprotected 23?

It is kind of an interesting thought exercise.  To me, I think Gordon's timeline is why they deal youth (and one year of Rozier) for KP.  In your mind, they want to trade their injury issue for ours.

I have zero interest in Hayward for KP. I liked the Bridges/Rozier/Washington idea like Dan.

Last year I was interested in Hayward because at the time it looked like you could send the Celtics expirings + some asset to make it worth their while and only have to pay Hayward some money. The deal would have been THJ + other filler. Not sure what the main asset would have been but I wish Mavs had explored it at least.

[StepBackJay]

I could actually see the Charlotte trade happening, simply because they have a glut of guards they're about to need to pay, their center situation is really bad, and the Mavs have a friendly history trading with them. Selling high on Rozier now makes sense from them and allows them to free up money and minutes for a 3-guard rotation of Graham/Lamelo/Monk.

The Mavs would also open up additional salary while presumably adding 2 starters for the price of 1. So the Mavs could then easily sign someone like Holmes and still bring back THJ, or even go after someone else bigger than that.

This is exactly my thinking, well stated.

1. Glut of guards
2. "Cash" in on Rozier's success (remember everyone panned his deal when signed)
3. Solve center issue, maybe Charlotte a more interesting team (Ball, Hayward, KP all having star-power)

I like Holmes a lot and then you have flexibility on how to finish out the roster. I am not really crazy ab THJ under any circumstances but I can see how he could be brought back as a 6th man.

Main rotation pieces would be:

Luka/Brunson
Rozier/THJ
DFS/Miles (both starting caliber)
Maxi/WCS? (alternatively Rick might experiment with DoDo at PF)
Holmes/Powell

This type of team fits more what the Mavs are trying to accomplish imo.

[dynamicalVoid]

Yall out here disrespecting MJ

[StepBackJay]

Looking forward in offseason:

- Extend THJ for reasonable price (i think we could also use his bird rights?)
- Go after Spencer Dinwiddie as J-Rich replacement. After a injury i don't think that price will be too high.
- If J-Rich opt-in trade them for some other reclamation project (J-Rich + picks for Bagley?)

- THJ is just meh to me. Like if we run out of other options and can get him on a team-friendly deal then maybe but his value is like as a 6th man so we need to solve starting SG first.
- I do like Dinwiddie and he feels like a Mavs-type target as they like to find guys that are available at a discount
- I can't imagine Kings would trade Bagley right now. He looked awesome last night. They should hold onto him at least until his value is higher. He just got back from injury so if he plays like he did last night Kings are going to want to hang onto him. We should hope he plays decent at least because it might make the Kings feel like Holmes is expendable.

[MaxiThreeba]

I'm having one of those doom and gloom days when it comes to the Mavs and the constant rollercoaster ride.

For the sake of talking through it I am going to axe JRich, THJ, WCS and Boban from the roster so I can work from a clear roster perspective.

That would leave the Mavs with two players that can start in Luka and DFS and three players that are okay in a 1-10 rotation in Brunson, Maxi and Powell.

The rest of the roster is KP, Burke, Green, Bey and Terry.  Burke is a great fit in your 11-15 as a guy that can step in and contribute when needed as he has shown.  The three rooks are....well who knows what they are??

So now you need to go get three starters and 2 bench pieces (Green the wildcard here).  Your tools for doing so are a KP trade and an additional $36.8 million in Cap Space.  I love Charlotte as a trade partner because I think MJ could be sold on what KP could bring to an up and coming roster.

So let's trade KP to Charlotte for Rozier, Bridges and McDaniels...hell maybe you can even squeeze a pick out of them.  Leaves Charlotte a Ball-Graham-Hayward-PJ-KP starting group with cap space to fill out their bench as well as rights to Monk.

Mavs now sit at Luka-Rozier-DFS-Bridges-EMPTY starters and Brunson-EMPTY-EMPTY-Maxi-Powell as 2nd unit.  Cap Space for Mavs jumps to $43.3 million and we still need a Center and 2 bench pieces (or another starter that pushes DFS or Bridges to the bench.).

$15 million to Holmes
Mavs still have space for Collins and he informs Hawks he intends to sign with Mavs.  Hawks are a playoff team and want to stay there so they work a S&T to add veteran big man that can offer some of what Capela does.  Powell and Terry to Hawks for Collins at $28.3 million.

Mavs rotation is now Luka-Rozier-DFS-Collins-Holmes.  Mavs take their roughly $12 million in leftover cap space and re-sign THJ.  Bench is now Brunson-THJ-Bridges-Maxi-EMPTY.  Burke, Green, McDaniels, Bey still around.  Mavs now bring back Bobi on vet min because everyone loves Bobi.  The room exception is used on the backup center position (WCS, Theis, McGee).

Starters: Luka-Rozier-DFS-Collins-Holmes
Bench: Brunson-THJ-Bridges-Maxi-Room Exception
Deep Bench: Burke, Green, Bey, McDaniels, Bobi

NBA 2K post that will never...and based on my total lack of real cap knowledge...possibly could never happen is now over.

TLDR; Can the Mavs actually build a better roster this summer??

[StepBackJay]

So @"MaxiThreeba" you lost me at the Collins part bc there is no way that happens. The KP/Charlotte trade + Holmes and resigning some guys is feasible though.

[StepBackJay]

Has any team executed a strategy where they sign guys, sell role players for picks and then just replace them in FA? OKC has done a lot of selling not through FA but through just swapping guys constantly (and pretty effectively I might add).

NYK might be the only team I can think of that is sort of doing this kind of strategy which is lock in a good player, then flip him for a pick and just rinse and repeat. Remember they signed Marcus Morris to a 2 year deal and then quickly traded him for a pick.

I feel like Houston used to be good about signing guys then flipping them for better assets (pre-Harden days). To me if you have a FO that knows how to find the right guys in FA then you could continually build up your war chest of picks. The issue is that teams fall in love with their own guys.