Thread Rating:
  • 4 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived
(04-07-2021, 10:03 AM)mvossman Wrote: If we are going to trade for these guys, It will require significant assets. 


Might be, but not necessary. It all depends how those two teams view their long term development. It is not easy to commit to a high or even max 4 year deal for a team that perhaps doesn't have contender potential. If Atlanta or NO don't want to match a max offer, they might be satisfied with an asset to let go. Like Milwaukee with Brogdon. Or Memphis with Wright, Minnesota with Jones and Washington with Sato. NO can't even make play-in tournament with Zion, Ingram, Ball and two good veterans. Are they really sure they want to pay max to that core? Same might go for Atlanta, depending on playoff performance.

(04-07-2021, 10:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Mostly because they could find a better package for Collins if they really wanted to move on from him


It is Collins who chooses his destination, not Atlanta. They can either sign him or negotiate a SnT with where he wants to go.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:36 AM)bin610 Wrote: Unless the Mavs feel very strongly that Atlanta will not max out Collins, trying to bid for an RFA while all the other good options get grabbed up is a mistake we have made too many times already in the past. Instead we need to go after someone like Richaun Holmes for 20+ million a year.
Have we ever missed out on another RFA besides Gortat? I’m seriously asking because I can’t remember one. Or did getting kicked in the Gortats just leave that bad of a taste in everybody’s mouth?
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Further, I don't see why ATL even wants to move on from Collins RIGHT at this moment.


Playoffs will tell. If they suck, they are bound to have a very expensive team that sucks. So it might be better to reset a little and construct a better fitting puzzle.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:32 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: This crosses my mind every time I think through a scenario where I keep JRich and move THJ.  I think that if they like Green, then this doesn't make sense and THJ is the keeper if Green is ever going to be a player.

I listened to a podcast yesterday where the host said something along the lines of "the target is probably someone nobody is talking about" because that's what the Mav's always do.  We have discussed the RFA PF's and the 33+ PG's and Ball and all sorts of MLE options.  Probably the best FA who hasn't gotten any discussion is Norman Powell.  He's the kind of guy we can sign at 5:01 and we don't need to do any kind of negotiation.  If we do negotiate, Portland is the kind of place that might could use Richardson (27th ranked D and plenty of O even before Powell showed up).  

The question is the fit with Dallas.  There is talk of needing another 15 point scorer.  He can do that and is a much scarier offensive threat than THJ.  He's not a defender (which is why I bring him up in a post focused on Josh Green).  But for as good an offensive team as we are, it gets really hard to score sometimes.  I'm not in love with the idea, but Powell hasn't always been the defensive disaster he's been this season (and he wasn't always the offensive powerhouse he's become either (95th percentile in Offensive RPM, 91st percentile in Offensive Raptor and 85th percentile in O-Lebron Box).  If he started in place of JRich and you added Theis and had Theis, Melli and Green as plus defenders off the bench, I wonder if you'd be more successful overall even if your D takes a bit of a hit.

Hows Rudy Gay playing these days?
I would love to keep our top9 and use our MLE on a bigger scoring wing to back-up DFS. Is Vince really done?
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 09:52 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: The Richardson/THJ deals will be tricky, I think. If you want them back, you want them at cost effective numbers. But, and this gets underplayed around here quite a bit, you absolutely do want them to feel valued, like they're being rewarded for their role(s) in building something HERE, and not necessarily just at the exact dollar amount dictated by the open market. To my way of thinking, that's worth a little (emphasis on little) extra. The locker room, and how people see themselves within the context of the team - that stuff is more important than we realize, I think.
^ this matters more than the flashy talking points about who starts and closes games. And i think the organization has done everything so far to make it a good situation for them. THj, JR and Brunson all bring something different and i don’t see them as having too big of an ego that it would get in the way of team success. All of them are close with Luka and just want to win. 

Brunson being a bench player yet playing when it matters most closing games. JRich making less than THj yet starting. THj coming off the bench and even barely playing on nights his shot isn’t falling. But also spot starting and getting significant run when he’s on fire.....these guys are team first guys that have all bought in. That’s valuable 

Main point: i feel comfortable trading for a superstar level player that comes available 1-3 years from now and I’m not worried about any of these guys being unhappy if their role were to change
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:45 AM)Mapka Wrote: Hows Rudy Gay playing these days?
I would love to keep our top9 and use our MLE on a bigger scoring wing to back-up DFS. Is Vince really done?

He's having a really good season.  He's a +9.0 on the Simple Rating at 82games.com.  He gets almost all of his minutes at backup PF, so probably more of a Melli replacement than a backup to DFS.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:50 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: And i think the organization has done everything so far to make it a good situation for them. THj, JR and Brunson


Are you really so sure? JRich was brought as a third man yet he takes least shots since his sophomore campaign, trailing both Brunson and THJ, besides the two stars. He is not even closing games on most nights, even when he goes 5-5 from three. And fans, at least majority of them, for sure don't really appreciate his signing. Even media thinks he is having another season where he regressed. So a change of scenery might do him good as Mavs situation certainly didn't raise his trade value. THJ and Brunson could obviously feel they deserve to be starters.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 11:12 AM)omahen Wrote: JRich was brought as a third man


I don't know that I agree with this. It might be true, but I don't think we have enough info to know that it's true.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:50 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: He's having a really good season.  He's a +9.0 on the Simple Rating at 82games.com.  He gets almost all of his minutes at backup PF, so probably more of a Melli replacement than a backup to DFS.

Is KP, Maxi, Melli, DP, Gay + X big enough as C/PF next year? It then would save Dorian from playing as a 4.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 11:22 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't know that I agree with this. It might be true, but I don't think we have enough info to know that it's true.


Point is, none of us knows how these guys think and it is very easy to construct a story why they would prefer to go somewhere else. Just as it is easy to construct a story how Dallas is a paradise situation for everyone involved.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 11:22 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't know that I agree with this. It might be true, but I don't think we have enough info to know that it's true.

We know for sure James Johnson didn´t like to be traded to NOLA.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 11:12 AM)omahen Wrote: Are you really so sure? JRich was brought as a third man yet he takes least shots since his sophomore campaign, trailing both Brunson and THJ, besides the two stars. He is not even closing games on most nights, even when he goes 5-5 from three. And fans, at least majority of them, for sure don't really appreciate his signing. Even media thinks he is having another season where he regressed. So a change of scenery might do him good as Mavs situation certainly didn't raise his trade value. THJ and Brunson could obviously feel they deserve to be starters.
I would say there’s a better argument that J Rich was brought in as a better fitting piece than Curry for our team building strategy of being better defensively. The “3rd guy” thing seems more of a made up fan idea. Unfair to both him and Hardaway. Fans and media perception don’t matter. If all 3 of those guys are happy and worried about the team winning and not what they “deserve”.......then i don’t see any problem with the dynamic. None of them are superstars, they all have their warts
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 11:58 AM)Mapka Wrote: We know for sure James Johnson didn´t like to be traded to NOLA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpFlm3lBMYI
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 10:38 AM)omahen Wrote: It is Collins who chooses his destination, not Atlanta. They can either sign him or negotiate a SnT with where he wants to go.

The only way Collins can choose his destination is if he's willing to take the qualifying offer and become a UFA in 2022. Atlanta is not obligated to cooperate with him in a SnT. They can make their best offer, then sit back and wait to see if another team maxes him. If they do, it's an easy match. If not, he likely takes the cheaper long term deal.
Like Reply
None of us know what any of these guys' personal lives are like, or what they might want. 

My thoughtful assumption in Richardson's case is that because he's originally from OKC, Dallas has to be at least a decent spot for him, lifestyle wise, and if I were he, I'd want to put a couple of seasons together with the same team. He has been bouncing around pretty frequently, and players who get passed around like a hot potato rarely end up having great careers. 

My guess is that he'll want to be back next year. Not sure whether or not the Mavs feel similarly.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 08:23 AM)soog Wrote: With their *sources*?  I’ve seen the Mavs linked to too many players over the years to put much credence in what “national guys” say.

More pertinent to our discussion - it’s a big leap to go from the speculation of some “national guys” seeking headlines and clicks to saying the Mavs are “obsessed”.  There might be interest there (I would be disappointed if there weren’t interest at some level), but we should keep it in perspective.

Okay it included Kevin O'Connor and Chris Haynes who are both connected reporters. It's not like some randos. You can dismiss them but I don't.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 12:19 PM)loki Wrote: The only way Collins can choose his destination is if he's willing to take the qualifying offer and become a UFA in 2022. Atlanta is not obligated to cooperate with him in a SnT. They can make their best offer, then sit back and wait to see if another team maxes him. If they do, it's an easy match. If not, he likely takes the cheaper long term deal.

I think what's going to happen is that Dallas and other teams will be negotiating with ATL first and then John Collins second. Also they can talk to ATL to set up a framework without wasting FA time.

The Bucks did this last year and screwed it up bc they put some cart before the horse with actually getting Bog on board with their Kings deal. Maybe he was on board until he knew he could get more money. At any rate that deal fell apart but if the team does its due diligence they can line up something like that.

The Mavs have leverage bc they can threaten a max offer sheet on Collins which ATL might not be crazy ab matching. ATL with their RFA rights have a lot of leverage bc they can simply match all offers. Collins leverage is he can have influence over which team he would agree to go to in a S&T situation (see Bog situation).

I expect the Mavs to take a crack at Collins even if its pre-FA negotiation w/ATL and potentially a third team to see if they can send ATL enough compensation for a S&T. If they get a deal there then getting Collins to sign a large deal (max or near max) shouldn't be too hard.

I wouldn't dismiss the Mavs pursuing this path *very* aggressively. They did a poison-pill contract on Parsons, they did an RFA max on Barnes who was a 10 ppg career scorer at the time! That deal was done solely on potential and was an indication of how desperate the Mavs were to find a foundational player.

Collins has shown way more already than Barnes ever did so the Mavs going all in on him would not be a surprise given what we've heard so far.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 12:19 PM)loki Wrote: The only way Collins can choose his destination is if he's willing to take the qualifying offer and become a UFA in 2022. Atlanta is not obligated to cooperate with him in a SnT. They can make their best offer, then sit back and wait to see if another team maxes him. If they do, it's an easy match. If not, he likely takes the cheaper long term deal.


I will just repeat, if it wasn't clear. Atlanta can keep him or send him where he wants to go. Atlanta doesn't have the luxury to choose between offers teams might make.
Like Reply
(04-07-2021, 01:26 PM)omahen Wrote: I will just repeat, if it wasn't clear. Atlanta can keep him or send him where he wants to go. Atlanta doesn't have the luxury to choose between offers teams might make.

I wouldn't frame it as "luxury to choose" I would say that ATL and Collins both have leverage in the situation. Collins doesn't have to participate in a S&T. ATL doesn't have to trade him. 

ATL has the choice of not trading him at all so in that sense they have the "luxury" of choosing between offers. So if they get subpar offers then they aren't going to trade him. If they get 2 "acceptable" offers but one is better than the other, then Collins has leverage to say ya I want team 2 (the worst package) or no deal. It's a 3-way negotiation between Collins, ATL and any team that would give him an offer sheet or participate in a S&T.
Like Reply
I still wonder about DeRozan. 

Spure are 12-15 without LMA. DeRozan leads them in PPG and APG. Nobody else on the team averages abover 16 PPG or 5 APG. He´s on a completely different timeline to the rest of the team. Unless they can convince Lowry to join him in San Antonio, I don´t see a reasonable scenario in which he should spend the rest of his prime on a rebuilding team. If it wasn´t DeRozan, but DuRant, I´d be 100% certain he´s gone. Then even taking Powell´s contract doesn´t matter, cause they´ll be far below the salary floor and one of the three worst teams in the West for the next two years anyway.
Like Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 61 Guest(s)