2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[mvossman]

I don't understand why Brunson couldn't start. Damien and McCollum have started for the Blazers for many years and they have been to the playoffs I think like 7 years in a row. Their supporting cast has also not always been very good. I would take a Luka, Brunson, KP core team over Dame/CJ/Nurkic honestly (Nurkic himself seems to be injured a lot). For sure Mavs will need to decide whether or not Brunson is best suited off the bench in starting but I am bullish on his future here.

Have the Blazers ever been considered a legit contender?  The reason not is because of their issues on defense.  The goal is not to make the playoffs every year.  The goal is to be a legit contender.  There is valid reason to question if a team starting Luka and Brunson can be good enough defensively to contend.

[BasketballJones41]

In both halves they played Vuc, Theis and Markkanen at the same time (so Markkanen is the SF?).

Is the Market for Markkanen really $22 million?  Between Christian Wood, Gallinari, Bertans and Grant, who is the best comp?  Is he a starter?  It would take a pretty specific group around him.  Or, is he more of a third big who can score off the bench?

If he wasn’t a lottery pick and we just looked at his data, I wonder if we’d see more Kelly Olynyk than $22mm guy.

BTW, depending on whether they are trying to operate under the cap to renegotiate LaVine, I think a S&T is possible here.  I just think it more likely for Hardaway than Powell.  Can you replace what Hardaway does with the MLE (McDermott?) and get two guys to help make the bench thrive?

I really think Markkanen can be had for Bertans type money. Around $15 million per year.
It doesn’t seem like they have any real intention on keeping him and I can’t imagine that he wants to stay. Probably a simple snt trade similar to what we did for Delon Wright would get it done.

[DrMav]

I might take Markkanen for the MLE or a S&T of Powell and no other significant asset (not even Terry), but anything beyond that I’m upset about it. I’m very out on his defensive fit on this team even if he can score the ball.

[khaled1987]

I might take Markkanen for the MLE or a S&T of Powell and no other significant asset (not even Terry), but anything beyond that I’m upset about it. I’m very out on his defensive fit on this team even if he can score the ball.

I used to really like Lauri, but even Bulls fan has been down on him for sometime. 
atm, I think he is having same worth as someone like Saric, which as you said is around MLE.

[StepBackJay]

Have the Blazers ever been considered a legit contender?  The reason not is because of their issues on defense.  The goal is not to make the playoffs every year.  The goal is to be a legit contender.  There is valid reason to question if a team starting Luka and Brunson can be good enough defensively to contend.

So that's fair but they did make it to the conference finals just in 2018 before running into the buzz-saw that is the Warriors super-team. They had a couple of duds the previous two years. One thing that is interesting about them is they have been a stay-the-course type of team for the most part. People have been telling them they need to trade CJ for years and they haven't done it.

I am not positive Brunson should start but I am pointing out I think that he *can* start for a very good team. The Dame/CJ backcourt is not the most stout defensive backcourt you will ever see but they are always a good team. Mavs are already ahead of where they were years ago because they never had a KP as part of their core. 

The Mavs having 3 good defenders in DFS, Maxi and KP to me make it possible to start Brunson. He already closes a lot of games and maybe that's his best role. I am open to the idea tho that Brunson should start and to the extent you need a J Rich type defender you can find those guys to come off the bench. Green is already waiting in the wings, he just needs to figure out a jumper. I think even as is he brings enough other things to the table that he could be a 10 mpg type guy next year.

[StepBackJay]

I used to really like Lauri, but even Bulls fan has been down on him for sometime. 
atm, I think he is having same worth as someone like Saric, which as you said is around MLE.

I like him fine but I also like McDermott as a potential cheaper option that would fit in well off the bench. I realize Lauri has upside but I think he will probably be overpaid by somebody.

[BolsDamols]

Bring Lauri home 

https://clutchpoints.com/bulls-news-laur...-nowitzki/

[soog]

He’s a Jason Kidd clone that has worked on his 3 early in his career unlike JK. He’s a defensive minded ball handler and distributor. He can play with the ball or without, which means he can give Luka rests in game. He’s young and was being shopped (at least rumored to be shopped) which possibly means NO won’t match all offers so is gettable.

All the things he offers have been talked about as needs on this team for about a year now.

JKidd clone? 

JKidd was in a different stratosphere.

[BasketballJones41]

I might take Markkanen for the MLE or a S&T of Powell and no other significant asset (not even Terry), but anything beyond that I’m upset about it. I’m very out on his defensive fit on this team even if he can score the ball.

Fair enough but if he winds up here I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

[BasketballJones41]

Bring Lauri home 

https://clutchpoints.com/bulls-news-laur...-nowitzki/

+41

[DrMav]

Fair enough but if he winds up here I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I think he would look really good on offense in Dallas but the biggest drawbacks to me are:
- Cost to get him
- Availability
- Defensive fit

If you aren’t signing him with the MLE, then you are having to let JRich and/or THJ go to open cap space, and I don’t think he’s enough better than them to justify it when you consider his frequent absences due to injury, plus the defensive fit with KP is horrible. Even though KP has been moving much better as he rounds into shape, he’s never gonna move like Bam.

[Branduil]

I don't understand why Brunson couldn't start. Damien and McCollum have started for the Blazers for many years and they have been to the playoffs I think like 7 years in a row. Their supporting cast has also not always been very good. I would take a Luka, Brunson, KP core team over Dame/CJ/Nurkic honestly (Nurkic himself seems to be injured a lot). For sure Mavs will need to decide whether or not Brunson is best suited off the bench in starting but I am bullish on his future here.

TBF the Blazers have the worst defense in the league and their undersized backcourt has clearly limited their ceiling over the years. Now, that's not to say you can't start a guy as small as Brunson and be a contender, teams have obviously done it before, but the Mavs will have to decide if that's the way they're going, and soon.

[ItsGoTime]

JKidd clone? 

JKidd was in a different stratosphere.

Ok...mold. That’s the word I was looking for.

[Mavs2021]

I can't imagine he's in their long term plans (rumors were they wanted him gone in a Lonzo package) or that it would take anything close to $88 million dollars to sign him.

Well they offered him 16-ish for an early extension. You can´t bargain a RFA, cause then his team will just match it to use him as a trade asset.

I´m also fascinated by the perception of Markkanen´s value. Is this a Euro thing?

23 year olds averaging 18/7 shooting nearly 50/40/90 will get paid for their potential alone. We gave Barnes 24 per year, averaging 11/5. Considering that we expect a post-COVID cap spike, I think that´s a fair deal.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I am not positive Brunson should start but I am pointing out I think that he *can* start for a very good team. 

It will be interesting to see if this Brunson-Closer thing continues and how teams counter.  If you can play the most important minutes of the game, then surely you can have your name announced at the beginning of the game.  Since it is so new, we don’t know if it will continue and we don’t know if it will continue to be successful.  I think it has a good chance.  If you look at two man lineups, Brunson is more positive with the other starters than JRich or THJ.  This is where I might say it would be difficult to sit JRich in a contract year for fear of upsetting his (and Luka’s) agent.  But, they did it to Hardaway.

The other thing to account for is 2022.  We shouldn’t lose him over pay.  We can pay whatever we wish.  But, if he doesn’t want to be the next Jet Terry, and really wants to be a starter, then we might lose him over role. I read somewhere that it really matters to Norman Powell that he starts.  To me, he would be an excellent THJ replacement, but when you think through what starting him does to the D, I’m not so sure.  That is kind of the beauty of the Brunson as Jet Terry thing.  You have a starting slot to recruit someone into (as long as you don’t lose Brunson in the process).

[F Gump]

I don't understand why Brunson couldn't start.

Yep.

Too many here are hung up on the things he can't do, and fail to see all the positives he does do (as well as the steady growth in his game, that still hasn't ended).

When you appreciate him for what he can do, you realize he's important.

See Barea, JJ.

And as for whether Brunson can start in the playoffs and excel, see Barea, JJ. NBA Finals starter on NBA Champion.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Tim Cato’s take from a Q&A last week on Collins vs. Ball:


Randall F. asks, “Let’s say the Mavs could add John Collins or Lonzo Ball (but only 1) next offseason, and that’s their main move. Which makes more sense? Which carries more risk? And which philosophy (strong frontcourt vs. strong backcourt) do you think they’ll ultimately pursue?” (Matt W. asks a similar question.)

If I had to guess, the team pursues Collins. If it were up to me, I’d try to sign Ball. The first option has more future trade value. Collins, although his fit might turn out to be tenuous, is an easy-scoring big man with a skill set that can’t be easily duplicated. The league hasn’t really “gone small” as much as it’s forced big men to have the same skill sets as guards. Collins is an example of this: He could, on consecutive possessions, convert a turnaround jumper from the post, hit a corner 3 and then jam the living hell out of the rim after attacking a closeout off the dribble. Teams want players like this. I’m not positive if he, Doncic and Porzingis could ever play defense at an adequate enough level no matter who’s on the court with them. I’m also not sure Doncic wants to play with a Collins-like player, although you could focus your Collins-centric offense involving isolations and post-ups for the times Doncic is off the floor. But whatever challenges signing him would present, it would be fun. You could certainly deal him later in a move to acquire someone who fits better.

But Ball might just fit better to start. He won’t have the same market value because he’s not a prolific scorer, but it won’t matter if he’s the functional third star the team needs from the moment he steps onto the court with them. He would improve the team in every area it’s light: shooting, perimeter defense and creation. He’s still young enough to fit the timeline well but proven enough through four years in the league that I trust you’re getting the player he’s been the past two seasons in New Orleans. Now, I’m not sure it really makes sense for the Pelicans to let him walk. But I could see the Mavericks being unable to play Porzingis and Collins at the same time in a postseason series. I don’t have these same concerns with Ball. If he’s available — and he simply might not be — I think he’s the obvious better fit.

Dallas might not go after either one. I’m already preparing for an incensed Mavericks Twitter whenever free agency actually comes. But there are reasons to be optimistic too, and the team must know some tangible improvement will be necessary for this roster that once again might not make it past the first round. I hope they deliver in a reasonable manner

[soog]

Ok...mold. That’s the word I was looking for.

Ok... so I’m looking at him more.  I’ve always liked him as an individual.  I’ve liked his composure on the court, how he plays the game at his speed (like someone else we know), and how he can block out his dad’s noise.

I never thought he’d succeed though because of his shot.  I know he worked to change his form, and I knew he had gotten marginally better but because I had already written him off I attributed any success he had in games Ive watched this year to being an anomaly.

Whelp, looks like I was wrong.  I just went back and watched a lot of videos of his shot this year and it looks mechanically sound and very consistent.  And his numbers this year support that.

I think Collins may still by my #1 target, but... what would this team look like with a starting line up of 

Luka/Ball/Dodo/Melli/KP

Hear me out, this team would move the ball like no other team, lots of people making the right decisions, unselfish play, hitting open shots, rotating on D.  I could be sold on that

(Yes I’m moving Melli into the starting line up, not because of pure talent, but because of BBIQ and potential fit in the proposed lineup.  Then you have a more talented bench coming in with Maxi poised to do some damage)

[haveitall]

I think people are thinking about Brunson from last year and earlier this year, he is a different player today.  He is scoring almost 20ppg lately and doing this super efficiently in the flow of the game while running the offense.  His range of moves is much larger now.  If he keeps this up its not a question if he is a starter its a question if he can be an all star.

[Mavs2021]

The other thing to account for is 2022.  We shouldn’t lose him over pay.  We can pay whatever we wish.  But, if he doesn’t want to be the next Jet Terry, and really wants to be a starter, then we might lose him over role.

I´d agree 100% with this statement, if we didn´t have so many extension coming up. Let´s say things work out well this summer.

We trade Powell +Burke +Terry for Markkanen 84/4

Extend THJ and Richardson 56/4 each.

Luka extension 150/5 whatever that max will be.

Dorian 50/4 + Brunson 50/4

Now your 2022 pay-roll roughly looks like this:

Porzingis 34
Luka 30
Markkanen 21
THJ 14
Richardson 14
Brunson 12.5
DFS 12.5
Kleber 9
Green 3

Over 150M for nine guys.

These are pretty fair numbers, even so this sh*t gonna be expensive. You can even allow THJ or Richardson to walk, you´ll still need a MLE replacement, which hardly saves you money. Or you can just ignore Markkanen, but then you still paying Powell + Burke. Not that much of a difference either.

Cuban better be ready to spend money soon.