2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[MFFL]

The Mavs have to play assetball more than moneyball. Moneyball is all about a small market team identifying solid pieces at bargain rates  and then letting them go earlier than later to get the next wave of bargain talent in there. Even with Cuban a bit reluctant to pay the repeater tax, no one can call his franchise small market or call him cheap. 

The MBT issue is that they rarely think out of the box. Picks are not hoarded and moved around to get better picks or players. Picks are devalued and thrown in as an extra bagel in a baker’s dozen box. Players are evaluated strictly on fit. For eg they never thought of doing what GS did in paying a hefty contract for DeAngelo just to trade him. GS did not want him just like the Mavs didn’t.  However they looked at him as an asset for another move. 

When coveted FAs time and again are implicitly telling you that your franchise is nothing special, you have to acquire assets differently.  Be it via drafts, via picks and trades or via thinking out of the box like GS did.

And we need to start developing young players better

I like Carlisle as a coach. BUT he has his style and that doesn't really involve playing youngsters. That was great when it was Dirk and we had the veteran guys who were capable of carrying their share of the load. But the veterans we have now are not the same caliber of Terry/Kidd/Marion/Chandler/Barea

There needs to be an organizational program to develop young players and Carlisle either has to buy in or be replaced. I really hate that it comes to that but we HAVE to have a continuous wave of young players to supplement the huge contracts of Porzingis and Luka (soon)

[Kammrath]

And we need to start developing young players better

THIS. Internal development of talent is essential if the Mavs are going to reach their potential as an organization.

[F Gump]

Nico Melli.

Discuss.

[cow]

Why is there no "why can't Nicolo Melli be a franchise player" thread?

[Omega_Supreme]

How would you guys feel about something like this as a post season trade 

OKC gets 
Dwight Powell 
Willie Cauley Stein 
Trey Burke 
Tyrell Terry 

Dallas gets 
Al Horford
Heat first round unprotected 2021
Nuggets 1st rd protected 20023

OKC frees up about 16 million dollars and get a young guard 
Dallas gets  a vet big and a 1st rd pick in 2021 for taking on the salary 
Dallas frees up guard spot for Nate Hinton next year
Th net in salary is just 2 to 3 million out of our cap but we get a 1st rd pick and we get

[Aussiebballer]

OKC aren’t giving up 1st rd picks to free up cap space.

---

They will be more than happy to draft numerous players, give them a year or 2 and if they aren’t happy with them they will trade them for more draft capital

[Branduil]

I think OKC is planning to use their stash of picks+Horford to go after a star. Which is why I've floated trades of KP to OKC before with the assets going to a third team, i.e. a 3-team KP-for-Collins deal.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

They would be dumb if they didn't use their draft capital to land a star player.   No way they can develop all those draft picks, and high probability if they tried they will end up paying out a max deal to some version of Andrew Wiggins or Otto Porter to lock in a young player on a 2nd contract before you even know what he ultimately is (they're just about to do that with SGA).

[StepBackJay]

I think Horford will get moved to a contender who has their own contracts to dump.

For Powell I don't think he's untradable. Evidently there was some interest in him at the TDL but we don't know for what. I could see Powell getting traded for an expiring player next year. It'd be nice to trade him for cap space but that could be tricky.

[StepBackJay]

I think OKC is planning to use their stash of picks+Horford to go after a star. Which is why I've floated trades of KP to OKC before with the assets going to a third team, i.e. a 3-team KP-for-Collins deal.

So OKC likes to be a facilitator. They definitely want to move Horford to a new home. I could see a scenario where Celtics want to move off of Kemba and bring back Horford home. They have a very high payroll. They would also probably like to move off of Thompson who hasn't worked out well there.

Knowing Donnie I could see him having interest in 2 yrs of Kemba, flaws and all if he is getting him cheap in terms of assets (namely no THJ, J Rich coming back). The trade would be something like Kemba, Thompson to Dallas, Horford to Celtics, Powell, WCS to OKC (and J Rich if he opts in).

Celtics would get a better fitting player in Horford plus free up money to resign Fournier (who had a terrible debut but could be a fit) and dump Thompson. Dallas would get a 2 year rental of Kemba, going pretty heavy in the "offensive" direction for the time being. Thompson would be more useful as a third big in Dallas and would also be expiring.

OKC would clean up their salary rolls some and find a home for Horford, plus likely pick up some 2nds along the way.

I know this board would hate it but your rotation would be Luka, Kemba, DFS, Maxi, KP with Brunson, Thompson as key reserves and maybe Green, Melli joining the rotation. They would be operating under the cap so would have a room exception as well.

[Omega_Supreme]

I think Horford will get moved to a contender who has their own contracts to dump.

For Powell I don't think he's untradable. Evidently there was some interest in him at the TDL but we don't know for what. I could see Powell getting traded for an expiring player next year. It'd be nice to trade him for cap space but that could be tricky.

Horford makes sense for only a few playoff teams. Most playoff teams don't have the expirings to do a Horford Trade. 

Dallas is an exception

[StepBackJay]

Horford makes sense for only a few playoff teams. Most playoff teams don't have the expirings to do a Horford Trade. 

Dallas is an exception

Well Dallas would be using cap space not expirings if they wanted Horford and I don't think they do really, even if Powell is dumped just bc you are still eating like 15 mil of Horford and he's your 3rd big.

[luka_skywalker_77]

I could see OKC making a deal for Wiseman at some point is GS becomes disillusioned. Probably wouldn't take much tbh. and that would be a hell of a start.

[Time Machine Dirk]

I know this board would hate it but your rotation would be Luka, Kemba, DFS, Maxi, KP with Brunson, Thompson as key reserves and maybe Green, Melli joining the rotation. They would be operating under the cap so would have a room exception as well.

Is that the personnel of a championship contender in the NBA? I'm not so sure.

[michaeltex]

THIS. Internal development of talent is essential if the Mavs are going to reach their potential as an organization.

I agree that it is essential, but there have been some successes. Powell wasn't much until he came to the Mavs. I think you can go back to players like Aminu , Crowder and Kris Humphries as examples of young players that found success on the Mavs and have gone on to have good careers.

IMO, they have to have something to make them stand out within the team to get into RC's planning cycle. Melli's performance in OKC with his first opportunity as a Mav is such an example. He's going to see limited exposure initially, but his PT could grow quickly with continued success. Especially if Luka shows confidence in him.

[michaeltex]

I think OKC is planning to use their stash of picks+Horford to go after a star. Which is why I've floated trades of KP to OKC before with the assets going to a third team, i.e. a 3-team KP-for-Collins deal.

Don't they have to do something like that? I'm not sure a team full of rookie contracts will even meet the minimum team salary requirement.

[KillerLeft]

THIS. Internal development of talent is essential if the Mavs are going to reach their potential as an organization.

Not directed specifically at you, Kamm, but this topic is so bananas to me. I don't get the anger it brings out in people at all. 

If the Mavs are carrying rookies, it is logical to assume they're developing those rookies. Otherwise, they would not have them on the roster. They aren't intentionally depriving themselves of helpful, experienced vets without purpose. There's a reason and a plan. 

When Green comes in and plays 16 minutes of effective basketball, basically for the first time all season, some people say "SEE? WHY ISN'T HE DOING THAT EVERY GAME???!!!" My strong reaction is "See? That kid is learning PLENTY. He has definitely improved since last we saw him. The plan is working."

[StepBackJay]

Is that the personnel of a championship contender in the NBA? I'm not so sure.

Dunno but then this assumes that the personnel of a championship contender is not available. Kawhi or Jrue aren't coming to Dallas. It at least tries to get you a third star that fits offensively. Not saying I would do it, but I don't think its that much of a risk given that an opted-in Kemba would be expiring one year late. I think lots of options will be looked at this offseason.

[Tyler]

Nico Melli.

Discuss.

While everyone assumed he'd be treated as an unwanted expiring salary, it's interesting to note that Melli is a RFA with a cap hold just under $5mm. I wonder how many more good games it would take for Dallas to decide it makes more sense to retain those rights or lock him up early in FA at a lower cap hit.

[ItsGoTime]

While everyone assumed he'd be treated as an unwanted expiring salary, it's interesting to note that Melli is a RFA with a cap hold just under $5mm. I wonder how many more good games it would take for Dallas to decide it makes more sense to retain those rights or (at the very least) lock him up early at a lower cap hit.

Hopefully more games than Burke showed last year.