2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Hypermav]

We all know AG is an upgrade over DFS on offense.  AG can play point forward and is actually a better passer than Brunson (who happens to be the next best playmaker the Mavs have), Unlike DFS and Maxi, AG can create his own shot and not just stand around the 3 point line and wait for Luka's pass. He is a threat to shoot from distance, a lob threat and also has the advance moves to score in the paint un-assisted (something neither DFS or Kleber could).

And then there is AG's defense.

There was a game where I was very impressed with AG's one-on-one defense against Luka. Luka couldn't seem to shake him easily, AG was always in front of Luka and Luka couldn't bully him. Of course, Luka scored a lot anyway, but on some plays, AG made Luka give up the ball. If AG brings that kind of defense and effort to the Mavs he'd easily be the Mavs best defender against big wings and small 4s.

AG seems to be a fit, a versatile big who can also play make.  If the Mavs need to include Brunson in a trade, so be it.  Mavs will trade a starting PG who can't start for a starting PF who can, and also play the point.

But of course if Orlando settles for the rookies (either or both) Green and Terry, then, much better trade for the Mavs.

What I would like:
Gordon+Fournier for Powell+Johnson+Terry

Just for your username

[HanspardShowerVoice]

The other significant upgrade that Gordon gives you over Dodo is rebounding.   

I'd hate to give up Brunson because he is very good at basketball and on cheap deal and fills a huge need in this team/system  ... and ... Trey Burke is my kryptonite (as soon as he came into the game last night the offense became the audible equivalent of the sad trombone), but could be talked into this ...

Brunson + JJ + DP .>> AG + Terrence Ross. 

Ross signed through 2023 at a reasonable 10/per allows the Mavs to let Richardson walk in the offseason without having to overpay (or maybe get something back in a SnT).  I view them as comparable players. 

Brunson is vastly better than Jarrett Culver, Anfernee Simmons (aka Pacific Northwest Roddy Beaubois) or anything the Blazers/TWolves could contribute as far as young players on rookie deals.

[Time Machine Dirk]

I couldn't understand the premature desire to trade KP and now it's the same thing with Brunson.
Why would we give up Brunson who has been playing great this season as our backup pg?
Tbh I can even see borderline allstar potential with Brunson if he keeps this upward trajectory going.
His quickness, finishing at the rim, mid range and 3-point-shot add up to an almost complete combination of offensive skills. If he manages to be more of a floor general, we have the future best pg backup in the league to run the show for the second unit.

The point is: We want to add talent to the roster in order to compete for a championship. Adding talent while losing our 3rd best player in Brunson is not getting us far.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

I couldn't understand the premature desire to trade KP and now it's the same thing with Brunson.
Why would we give up Brunson who has been playing great this season as our backup pg?
Tbh I can even see borderline allstar potential with Brunson if he keeps this upward trajectory going.
His quickness, finishing at the rim, mid range and 3-point-shot add up to an almost complete combination of offensive skills. If he manages to be more of a floor general, we have the future best pg backup in the league to run the show for the second unit.

The point is: We want to add talent to the roster in order to compete for a championship. Adding talent while losing our 3rd best player in Brunson is not getting us far.

In my proposal of Brunson for Terrence Ross and Aaron Gordon, you're trading 1 back up for two 2021-2022 Starters (and then using the savings on resigning Richardson on better opportunities).   The one thing this free agent crop has is point guards who can score off the dribble.  

I like Brunson a lot too, hate to give him up.  But let's also remember the clock is ticking loudly on his rookie contract and he's about to get paid.     I like Brunson a lot on his current contract.   I don't like him as much at $17+ million per year.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Hoops Hype just released their updated rankings of 2021 Free Agents ... Josh Richardson, not highly thought of. 

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2021-nba-fre...ankings-2/

[Kammrath]

Josh Richardson, not highly thought of. 

Two things:

1) The trade by which he was attained told us that much.

2) His play this year has confirmed it. He has been the weakest link on this team IMO other than the KP ups and downs. But right now KP is stabilizing and JR is still an anchor.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Some notes from the latest Zach Lowe podcast with former Spurs analytics guy Kirk Goldsberry.

Lowe: The old argument for Gordon is that Orlando misplayed him as a 3.  He really should be a full time 4.   But now he's not a good fit with Isaac who they signed longterm.  They like Okeke.  Minnesota really wants Gordon. If I had to guess, I think Orlando are going to trade Fornier, keep Ross, keep Vuc because they're going to demand a Jrue Holliday return because he's been so good this year, and 51% chance they trade Gordon and 49% keep.

Goldsberry: I heard the same things about Minnesota.  I don't have a good feel for Gordon in the market.  He's  an enigmatic player. Analytically it's hard to buy into him.   Is this a guy you build around?  I'm not sure

The play-in playoff format has really shrunk the sellers market.  Orlando and Houston are really one of the few teams that are really out of it and have a lot of tradeable pieces on nice contracts, which gives them a lot of leverage.   Fornier is the #1 scoring guard available at the trade deadline, and I think he gets moved.   Some teams think Gordon is a potential superstar. 

Minnesota:  They should be obvious sellers, but I don't know what they have to sell really.  So they might be active on offense to try to aquire pieces for next year.  If you're a GM who likes Jarrett Culver, you should be calling Minnesota (I'm not sure such a GM exists).

[Time Machine Dirk]

But is there really a need to trade for Terrence Ross when we have THJ?

I would rather trade DFS, expirings, one of our rookies and two future 2nds for Aaron Gordon.

Regarding Brunsons payday: Can't we pay him with our Bird Rights? I'm not so familiar with the NBA financials...

Regarding JRich: As of right now I'm opposed to resigning him. He looked lost in defense against the Clippers on multiple possesions while defense was supposed to be his strength. He has to play like in the 3-4 games before the Clippers game in order to have a reason to be resigned.

[ItsGoTime]

We all know AG is an upgrade over DFS on offense.  AG can play point forward and is actually a better passer than Brunson (who happens to be the next best playmaker the Mavs have), Unlike DFS and Maxi, AG can create his own shot and not just stand around the 3 point line and wait for Luka's pass. He is a threat to shoot from distance, a lob threat and also has the advance moves to score in the paint un-assisted (something neither DFS or Kleber could).

And then there is AG's defense.

There was a game where I was very impressed with AG's one-on-one defense against Luka. Luka couldn't seem to shake him easily, AG was always in front of Luka and Luka couldn't bully him. Of course, Luka scored a lot anyway, but on some plays, AG made Luka give up the ball. If AG brings that kind of defense and effort to the Mavs he'd easily be the Mavs best defender against big wings and small 4s.

I haven't watched a lot of AG ball, but this makes it sound like he's Miami JJ when he earned the contract he has now.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Any trade made at the deadline should be made for the next 2-3 years in mind.   There isn't a trade out there that makes the Mavs title contenders this year.   Mavs only have THJ for a few more months under contract.  The appeal for Ross for me is he gives the Mavs leverage not to have to overpay THJ and Richardson in the summer, and allows them to allocate money elsewhere.  Ross is on an affordable contract for several more years.  

[Time Machine Dirk]

Okay, you're right there: Ross can be THJ on a cheaper contract. But is that really worth it to trade Brunson? I think that Brunson can still be traded nicely with a 17M contract if he keeps improving like this, which I think he will.

[omahen]

There isn't a trade out there that makes the Mavs title contenders this year.

Is there really so much missing to become a contender? Mavs have two legit stars when healthy as (also) shown yesterday. We have 5 good role players. Some can score and some can defend. 

I am mkre optimistic. I think one correct piece might change things significantly. Of course you have to nail that one piece.

[ItsGoTime]

I am mkre optimistic. I think one correct piece might change things significantly. Of course you have to nail that one piece.

I don't think (the right) 1 more piece makes us contenders, but I think it would put us in a HCA situation next year. I think (the right) 2 more pieces makes us contenders. 


I mean, 1 more piece being a (well fitting) star, sure...our team is built for that scenario already. However, what does the team look like after giving up what it takes to get that 1 more star.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Is there really so much missing to become a contender? Mavs have two legit stars when healthy as (also) shown yesterday. We have 5 good role players. Some can score and some can defend. 

I am mkre optimistic. I think one correct piece might change things significantly. Of course you have to nail that one piece.

I think it would take a tremendous amount of good breaks for everything to go right.    We've got KP through the rest of his max.   We got Luka at least through his next extension.   I would rather focus on a deal that gives us the best chance to be in the contender window for as many years as possible, and gives us more shots on goal for a possible year where everything breaks right.

[Chicagojk]

I am hoping for a playoff victory this year.  This team needs to get some playoff hardship out of the way.  My timeline has always been this team is a championship contender starting next year.   If they are not there next year, then I would consider them behind schedule.   

As you very rarely see a team win their first deep run in the playoffs, I want to see more than one series this year.

Plus, it will also really shine the light that you can't give away bad possessions with bad shots.   Or you can't give up on plays and don't hustle back on defense.  Etc. Crucial learning experiences that you typically only get by going thru them.  

Playoff games also give you a clear visual on what players thrive in playoff games and which ones wilt.

[MaxiThreeba]

Shot in the dark and I'm light to Orlando but haven't included Green or picks so maybe that delta can be closed.  This would open up two roster spots.  I would try and bring back JJB to add some vet presence and a steadying hand for Luka and keep one spot for any potential buyout fits.

Mavs Receive:
Aaron Gordon, Evan Fournier, Mike Muscala and George Hill

Mavs Trade:
Josh Richardson, Dwight Powell, James Johnson, Trey Burke, Tyrell Terry, and Wes Iwundu

Magic Receive:
Dwight Powell, James Johnson, Trevor Ariza, Tyrell Terry and Trey Burke

Magic Trade:
Aaron Gordon, Evan Fournier, Aminu and Mo Bamba

Thunder Receive:
Josh Richardson, Mo Bamba, Aminu and Iwundu

Thunder Trade:
George Hill, Mike Muscala and Trevor Ariza


Why Mavs do it: They can roll out a starting lineup of KP, Maxi, AG, Fournier and Luka.  They add George Hill to help fill JRich defensive role and provide another secondary ball handler.  Muscala gives them a big to replace Powell in the rotation.

Why Magic do it: The Powell as the centerpiece of a trade story still makes no sense to me and this trade depends on that actually being realistic and Powell being a guy the Magic like.  They get some cheap guard depth with Burke and Terry and a couple expirings to flip or just let burn off.  Their return is light and not sure the gap can be closed realistically.

Why Thunder do it:  In their continued asset management they turn Hill, Muscala and Ariza into the chance to rehab Mo Bamba'a value and potentially JRich as well.


Mavs New Rotation:

KP - Muscala/WCS - Bobi
Maxi - DFS - Bey 
AG - THJ - Hinton
Fournier - Hill - Green
Luka - Brunson - JJB*

Mavs aren't quite as thin at the 4 spot with AG eating minutes there as well and they can be opportunistic if a buyout fit presents itself.

[Jason Terry]

Hoops Hype just released their updated rankings of 2021 Free Agents ... Josh Richardson, not highly thought of. 

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2021-nba-fre...ankings-2/

Brutal to look at this list. Of the top 20 there’s only 3 players i believe would even consider the mavs: derozan, Drummond and Holmes. None move the needle. It’s wishful thinking to consider Ball or Collins would want to be in Dallas of all places when there’s so many better options this summer. We’ve seen how that movie ends

The best option this deadline is probably stand pat. And the best option this summer is probably keep everyone and use the MLE on Dragic if possible. If not then maybe someone like Bobby Portis or Bjelica. 

Wait and see how luka and kp develop together. If we’re happy with them then go all in. If not then blow it up

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Isn't Aaron Gordon a 4?  or even a small ball 5?  

I'm seeing a lot of posts about how he'd be an upgrade over DFS.  I was thinking he'd push Maxi back to the bench.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Is there really so much missing to become a contender? Mavs have two legit stars when healthy as (also) shown yesterday. We have 5 good role players. Some can score and some can defend. 

I am mkre optimistic. I think one correct piece might change things significantly. Of course you have to nail that one piece.

One significant piece and I think the Mavs are in the 2nd tier category of teams like the Clippers, Bucks, maybe current 76ers.  I think they're two significant pieces away from being in the top category like the Lakers, Nets, maybe 76ers (with Lowry).

---

Some notes from the latest Zach Lowe podcast with former Spurs analytics guy Kirk Goldsberry.

Lowe: The old argument for Gordon is that Orlando misplayed him as a 3.  He really should be a full time 4.   But now he's not a good fit with Isaac who they signed longterm.  

Well damn I should've kept reading...

[dirkfansince1998]

Brutal to look at this list. Of the top 20 there’s only 3 players i believe would even consider the mavs: derozan, Drummond and Holmes. None move the needle. It’s wishful thinking to consider Ball or Collins would want to be in Dallas of all places when there’s so many better options this summer. We’ve seen how that movie ends

The best option this deadline is probably stand pat. And the best option this summer is probably keep everyone and use the MLE on Dragic if possible. If not then maybe someone like Bobby Portis or Bjelica. 

Wait and see how luka and kp develop together. If we’re happy with them then go all in. If not then blow it up

If you want to run it back with THJ and Richardson trading Johnson and picks for any kind of upgrade is the best option. Let´s say the Mavs trade picks and Johnson for Fournier. Resign all three SGs/SFs (THJ, Fournier, Richardson). Depending on the cap situation that would still give the Mavs the MLE/ tMLE (if Cuban is willing to pay) to add one more guy.