2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Wiseman was the second pick in the trade everyone tried to trade down.
And he might be even more injury prone than KP.

Wiggins made Butler force a trade and then made the wolves give a unprotected first to trade him for overpaid Russell. 

This package sounds better than it is.

If they didn't think Wiseman was good they wouldn't have drafted him 2nd overall.

[Omega_Supreme]

I think its obvious what the Mavs are looking for now

1. Young Player picked high in the draft 
2. Draft pick
3. Veteran starting caliber player 

I think that is consistent across the board in looking at a Golden St. Package, Wizards Package, etc...

As for Wiggins I am not sure how I feel about him I would much rather have the Wizards package

Bertans, Advija, Lopez, 2021 1st, 2023 1st (Houston) 

That is much better than what we gave up and also frees up a little money in 2021. 

You could flip Lopez and Johnson and a few seconds and bring in Drummond and you replace everything you lost in KP with 
Bertans, Drummond, Advija, and 2 picks.

[Mapka]

If they didn't think Wiseman was good they wouldn't have drafted him 2nd overall.

They tought he was the best value on the board. Wiggins was a first pick - does this make him any better?

Bagley was a second pick to, would you give a lottery pick for him? 

But in the end this doesn't matter as I don't think there is a realistic KP-trade out there.

[omahen]

I think its obvious what the Mavs are looking for now

How the hell do you know that?

[omahen]

Guessing about Collins price, Boston and Atlanta beat writers

https://theathletic.com/2410337/2021/02/...ght-price/

[b]Weiss:[/b] OK, let’s see if we can push this over the finish line then. How would Schlenk feel turning that second into a vanishing first, giving it a top-25 protection that then converts into a pair of seconds if it doesn’t convey? So that would be Pritchard, Edwards, firsts in ’21 and ’23 and a vanishing first in ’25.

[b]Kirschner:[/b] I think that’s enough draft capital to get a deal done with Boston. Definitely would see if any team wanted to include a better young player in the deal before making this one, but with the possibility of three firsts, let’s make a deal.

[SleepingHero]

Wiseman was the 2nd pick in the draft so that is quite the prize and Wiggins is a good player. His defense has improved so he's another scoring option.

Wiggins....a good player...?

Dude is averaging some of the lowest numbers of his career (besides FG%/3pt%). But what I'm more interested is that out of all the GSW starters, Wiggins is the only one with negative advanced stats. He has an ORTG of 104, and a DRTG of 114, which coincide with his career averages. In comparison, Steph has a ORTG of 120 and a DRTG of 110. They're both starting for the Warriors and he shares almost all of his minutes with Steph/Dray/Oubre. 

Dude is a losing player and always will be. Harrison Barnes 2.0.

[Chicagojk]

Guessing about Collins price, Boston and Atlanta beat writers

https://theathletic.com/2410337/2021/02/...ght-price/

[b]Weiss:[/b] OK, let’s see if we can push this over the finish line then. How would Schlenk feel turning that second into a vanishing first, giving it a top-25 protection that then converts into a pair of seconds if it doesn’t convey? So that would be Pritchard, Edwards, firsts in ’21 and ’23 and a vanishing first in ’25.

[b]Kirschner:[/b] I think that’s enough draft capital to get a deal done with Boston. Definitely would see if any team wanted to include a better young player in the deal before making this one, but with the possibility of three firsts, let’s make a deal.

For me that is a .50 cents on the dollar trade for Atlanta.   I would guess they could do better.   Pritchard has been a pleasant surprise for the Celtics, but would Atlanta trade Collins to get a 23 year old backup to Young.   Edwards wouldn't make sense to me either.   Still think he can find a niche though in the NBA.   Romeo Langford would be more appealing but he is hurt and is more of a throw in to supplement the real prize in a trade. 

The first round pick are wild cards and this years first for Boston will probably be in the teens, but I have trouble seeing ATL moving on a deal like that.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Great stuff as always. 

I think the smoke around GSW, ATL, WAS has this in common: They are all... 

1) underperforming teams, 
2) desperate to win now for various reasons, and 
3) have young talent to expend.

I think that is exactly the kind of team that will trade for KP. I think the Mavs are far better served aiming for young talent/pick in return for KP than an actually developed star (market for that is stupid inflated these days). 


Question for you @"DanSchwartzgan": What is your gut feeling on the timing of a KP trade if it were to happen? TDL? Summer? Next TDL?

We typically think of that as waiting and being patient as the best way to maximize value.  But, the team knows his knees and his attitude better than we do.  It is certainly possible his value is at its apex right now.  Plus, once these things become public, they have a way of getting away from you.  

My best guess would have been this summer.  If he starts playing again, I’ll stick by that.  But, it wouldn’t surprise me to see it happen sooner if he keeps missing games.  As it relates to Collins specifically, it is MUCH better from a control standpoint to get him now versus later and have his smaller cap hold and RFA rights.

[Omega_Supreme]

How the hell do you know that?

Lol you right I have no solid info but the teams that we are rumored with all have those things in common. The young players being talked about being Wiseman and Advija are guys that fit the Mavericks profile type of player.

It also matches what we gave up to get Porzingis.

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status...6356816904

[ClutchDirk]

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bu...0510618122

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Celtic fans/writers are the absolute worst about thinking the rest of the league should just hand over their high level players over to their favorite team for scraps.   Probably because Ainge has gotten away with it a few times (fleecing McHale for KG), they think that's just how things work.

[Kammrath]

One key item is we have not heard anything from KP's brother indicating anything is wrong...

I think the Mavs learned from the NYK debacle how much power KP and his family can wield and how much trouble they can make. 


With KP now about to miss his third game in a row after EIGHT days off before that, I am truly wondering if KP and his family requested a trade during the break and the Mavs said: "Keep quiet, be a positive energy presence on the bench, and we will work with you and your brother to get you into a situation that is a win-win for us both."

[omahen]

third game in a row after EIGHT days off before that

I don't understand why you are stressing eight days off. They were not at home, laying in bed doing nothing. They were practicing. One can get injured in practice too. 

Of course your theory is theoretically possible. But it sounds more as a conspiracy theory to me.

[StepBackJay]

Wiggins....a good player...?

Dude is averaging some of the lowest numbers of his career (besides FG%/3pt%). But what I'm more interested is that out of all the GSW starters, Wiggins is the only one with negative advanced stats. He has an ORTG of 104, and a DRTG of 114, which coincide with his career averages. In comparison, Steph has a ORTG of 120 and a DRTG of 110. They're both starting for the Warriors and he shares almost all of his minutes with Steph/Dray/Oubre. 

Dude is a losing player and always will be. Harrison Barnes 2.0.

Okay so I am not married to that then. Warriors would need to send Oubre and Looney along with Wiseman and those are also useful players. Mavs would get cap space and their 2nd core player in Wiseman.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Really, nothing on the Warrior excites me unless they are giving up the T-Wolves pick.   I like Wiseman's raw talent, but it could be 3 years before he's a future cornerstone player for a legit contender.    Wiggins is like  THJ on a much worse contract and without the hot streaks.   Oubre is horrible.

[omahen]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_...e-deadline

The Mavericks would be looking at comparable deals to the Seth Curry for Josh Richardson swap on the night of the draft; more trimming-around-the- edges type trades and not ones that change the landscape of the roster.

[cow]

Wiggins....a good player...?

Dude is averaging some of the lowest numbers of his career (besides FG%/3pt%). But what I'm more interested is that out of all the GSW starters, Wiggins is the only one with negative advanced stats. He has an ORTG of 104, and a DRTG of 114, which coincide with his career averages. In comparison, Steph has a ORTG of 120 and a DRTG of 110. They're both starting for the Warriors and he shares almost all of his minutes with Steph/Dray/Oubre. 

Dude is a losing player and always will be. Harrison Barnes 2.0.

On Harrison Barnes' behalf, I'm a little offended at the comparison.

[Kammrath]

I don't understand why you are stressing eight days off. They were not at home, laying in bed doing nothing. They were practicing. One can get injured in practice too. 

Of course your theory is theoretically possible. But it sounds more as a conspiracy theory to me.

1) Well they actually DID have more days off than normal.

2) Their practices (when they have them) still aren't the same intensity as games. Also, we aren't even sure if they had more than one full blown practice, for that was all that was reported that I saw.

3) Yes, it is technically a "conspiracy theory" because I am wondering if the KP family is working covertly with the Mavs organization to some sort of end for KP. Just a musing, as I am trying to make sense of all the data here. Nothing more. I am not suggesting it is likely.

[ClutchDirk]

I think the Mavs learned from the NYK debacle how much power KP and his family can wield and how much trouble they can make. 


With KP now about to miss his third game in a row after EIGHT days off before that, I am truly wondering if KP and his family requested a trade during the break and the Mavs said: "Keep quiet, be a positive energy presence on the bench, and we will work with you and your brother to get you into a situation that is a win-win for us both."

Plausible for sure...Mavs are a keep it secret organization...