2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

DAJ was washed up defensively but still gave you a 13 rebound double-double every night on high efficiency. Drummond will give you similar output in terms of rebounding but better offense and at least has tools defensively. I don't believe Mavs will trade for him but rather try to get him through buyout. 

The trickier problem to solve is if the Mavs pitch Drummond I don't think they can promise him a starting position. He would be better off the bench but heck maybe at this point they need to try anything that could get this season turned around.

The Nets could give Drummond a starting position right away which is why they make the most sense.

[KillerLeft]

The extremely pro-Drummond people are, to me, the same type of people who used to believe Danny Fortson was the answer to all of the Nash/Dirk/Finley era problems. He was not.

In fact, Fortson is a good comp for Drummond in some ways. He was the “best” rebounder for a while, too. Like Drummond, he just didn’t play an all around game that helped achieve wins.

[Omega_Supreme]

I mostly agree with your other sentiments, although I am easing my hold on those thoughts. To me, it's about WHO the big man is and HOW he is played based on that evaluation.

As far as DAJ, he needed CP3 in his face all the time to keep the level of play he had in LA, and that level of play was INCREDIBLE. I would even say better than Drummond cause he was an offensive and defensive monster for that team. 

He gave his all for CP3, I don't think there is another player in the league that can match what CP3 did for him, maybe Butler, but at this point, yes, DAJ is fully done and even if he was paired with CP3 again, the effect wouldn't be the same, even if on a smaller scale. The passion to take that kind of beat down to raise his level of play is gone from him IMO.

Well I do not think its fair to judge Drummond in Cleveland. I created a term called the Jordan Clarkson effect. Cleveland is just a miserable franchise for players like Drummond who does not always play with a motor. 

There is a reason you see guys leave Cleveland and become better. Drummond is just 1 year removed from this performance last year. Here is him dominating the Suns...The Mavs could really use this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe8911HkR9w&t=91s

Check out this video of Drummond shooting threes, he is still developing 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zlpc6UQImw

[ItsGoTime]

Honestly, Shaq ruined it for big men in the NBA. The opposite of what Dirk did for his position. Most big men that come out today don't shoot FTs well, which is at the crux of why they are unplayable, to me.

[cow]

The extremely pro-Drummond people are, to me, the same type of people who used to believe Danny Fortson was the answer to all of the Nash/Dirk/Finley era problems. He was not.

In fact, Fortson is a good comp for Drummond in some ways. He was the “best” rebounder for a while, too. Like Drummond, he just didn’t play an all around game that helped achieve wins.

Drummond is seemingly cheap to obtain and comes without long term commitment.  I don't really see the harm in kicking the tires.  Worst case is that he has long conversations with Boban as the sit at the end of the bench.

Maybe I'm weird but I'd also sign Boogie if he's released and tell him the second unit is being run through him.  He'd be the Kanter/Randle experiment I've always wanted to deploy.

[KillerLeft]

Drummond is seemingly cheap to obtain and comes without long term commitment.  I don't really see the harm in kicking the tires.  Worst case is that he has long conversations with Boban as the sit at the end of the bench.

No argument there. I have no problem with the idea of signing him after a buyout, just the idea that he’s some sort of miracle cure for the team.

[StepBackJay]

No argument there. I have no problem with the idea of signing him after a buyout, just the idea that he’s some sort of miracle cure for the team.

I do think if he goes to the Nets it would be a big deal for them tho. That being said if somehow the Mavs wind up with him I could see those rebounding and inside scoring skills coming in handy.

[ItsGoTime]

just the idea that he’s some sort of miracle cure for the team.

I hope you don't get that idea from me. Cause I'm far from thinking he's that.

[KillerLeft]

I hope you don't get that idea from me. Cause I'm far from thinking he's that.

No, I’ve gotten that idea from the hundreds of times I have read it on the Internet over the past 2-3 years.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Lol. I wasn’t meaning to use simple box score stats to make a case against him, just to demonstrate that I’ve been following him nightly and even watching him fairly regularly.

What I’ve seen from him, both last year here and this year in Detroit has been underwhelming, and the biggest confirmation of this is the quality of his team’s season, seeing as his role is that of main ball-handler. He’s probably the worst player in the league currently occupying that job, though it’s certainly not his fault he has been put in that position.

I do agree that he’s a better player than Johnson, but as even the most casual Mavs fan should know, that trade wasn’t about talent for talent - it was a financial/cap related move, as most deals are. I fail to see what possible point can be made through comparison. Please help me understand what you’re driving at there.

I mean what do you expect from Detroit, when they are totally in rebuild mode?  They have purged the roster, giving the kids playing time, and will soon rid themselves of Blake Griffin's albatross contract.  Wright has played well for them, despite your claims he hasn't. We know he's not a starting PG, but he has filled a role until Hayes come back.  He played good for Casey in Toronto. Don't see why you're clowning him because he didn't play well in Dallas.  He is what he is. They have beat some good teams, Phoenix, Lakers, Nets, Philly, and Boston twice. They play hard, and are actually fun to watch. One coach even said they are the best worst team in the NBA.

[KillerLeft]

Wright has played well for them, despite your claims he hasn't. We know he's not a starting PG, but he has filled a role until Hayes come back.  He played good for Casey in Toronto. Don't see why you're clowning him because he didn't play well in Dallas.  He is what he is. They have beat some good teams, Phoenix, Lakers, Nets, Philly, and Boston twice. They play hard, and are actually fun to watch. One coach even said they are the best worst team in the NBA.

He has played well SOMETIMES, which is what I've said consistently. Definitely not all the time, no.

Clowning him? I'm not trying to clown anyone at all. Not sure where that's coming from. I have no problem with Wright, just a slight annoyance with revisionist history. Now that he's hurt, what will happen next is that DSJ will get a stretch of games where he plays a lot - maybe even starts. At some point, he'll put up some points and dish out some assists in a game and people will login here to tell us about how Carlisle wasn't a good enough coach to develop him properly, or that Donnie messed up by trading him for KP. This WILL happen, because it has never not happened before, with literally any player the Mavs have let expire/traded away. If I was clowning anyone (I wasn't), it was the crowd that enjoys doing that.

[dirkfansince1998]

He has played well SOMETIMES, which is what I've said consistently. Definitely not all the time, no.

Clowning him? I'm not trying to clown anyone at all. Not sure where that's coming from. I have no problem with Wright, just a slight annoyance with revisionist history. Now that he's hurt, what will happen next is that DSJ will get a stretch of games where he plays a lot - maybe even starts. At some point, he'll put up some points and dish out some assists in a game and people will login here to tell us about how Carlisle wasn't a good enough coach to develop him properly, or that Donnie messed up by trading him for KP. This WILL happen, because it has never not happened before, with literally any player the Mavs have let expire/traded away. If I was clowning anyone (I wasn't), it was the crowd that enjoys doing that.

We obviously don´t know if he would be just as good for Dallas (based on last seasons performance he wouldn´t) but him playing good SOMETIMES is enough to put up better numbers than any Mavs player not named Luka.
Just compare him to the current Mavs. With his numbers he would rank 3rd in PER, 2nd in WS and WS/48, 2nd in BPM, 2nd in VORP.
He wasn´t just putting up numbers on a bad team. Yes the Pistons are really bad but that´s not on him. On/off numbers are really telling the story. With Grant and Wright on the floor the Pistons are putting up a fight in most games but that´s not enough to compensate for a terrible bench.

I don´t think trading Wright was a mistake. He wasn´t even in the rotation in the most important games of the season but I still remember that people called me crazy when I was complaining about the trade. I predicted that Johnson would have no on court value. It was all about plan powder 2021. If they don´t trade Johnson (5 weeks left) it´s basically confirmed.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

He has played well SOMETIMES, which is what I've said consistently. Definitely not all the time, no.

Clowning him? I'm not trying to clown anyone at all. Not sure where that's coming from. I have no problem with Wright, just a slight annoyance with revisionist history. Now that he's hurt, what will happen next is that DSJ will get a stretch of games where he plays a lot - maybe even starts. At some point, he'll put up some points and dish out some assists in a game and people will login here to tell us about how Carlisle wasn't a good enough coach to develop him properly, or that Donnie messed up by trading him for KP. This WILL happen, because it has never not happened before, with literally any player the Mavs have let expire/traded away. If I was clowning anyone (I wasn't), it was the crowd that enjoys doing that.

You can say that a lot of players play inconsistent. KP is a classic example and he's a much bigger star than Wright.  I digress, maybe the wrong choice of words. But clearly maybe not you but some of the others on here praised him til the cows came home after they signed him. But when he didn't play consistently enough, they wanted to run him out town, (which they did)  All I'm saying is, he's played better in Detroit, than he did here. He is what he his, a somewhat dependable backup.  Sometimes when things don't work out, things have a way of correcting itself. I don't see how anyone could say, they messed up trading DSJ for KP and THJ.  That was one of the biggest hi-jacks ever depending on if KP stays healthy. DSJ is just about running out of chances. Hope it works out for him as he's lost confidence and trust in coaches. Casey is known for developing players, so we'll see.

[Hypermav]

1. "Dallas Mavericks receive: Andre DrummondCleveland Cavaliers receive: James Johnson, Dwight Powell, 2021 second-round pick and 2022 second-round pickAndre Drummond puts huge numbers in the box score—13-plus rebounds per game in eight of his nine NBA seasons—but his impact doesn't always measure up. If it did, he might be playing his way into Cleveland's long-term plans instead of sitting and waiting for a trade out of town.But Drummond might help the right contender in a rather big way. If there was a win-now dreamer that, say, had an MVP candidate running its offense but couldn't gain ground in the standings due to bottom-five rankings on defense and the glass, maybe Drummond would stand out as a significant addition.Well, the Mavericks are getting MVP-caliber contributions from Luka Doncic (29.1 points, 9.4 assists and 8.6 rebounds per game), but they're sitting a disappointing 10th in the West. Care to guess the culprits? Let's just say Dallas is doing itself no favors on defense (27th) or the glass (27th in rebounding percentage).While Mavs head coach Rick Carlisle stopped short of labeling a glass-cleaning big man as a pressing deadline need, per Callie Caplan of the Dallas Morning News, he hardly dampened deadline expectations for Mavs governor Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson."You know Mark and Donnie. These guys are gunslingers," Carlisle said. "They're riverboat gamblers, and they're ready to talk about anything that would get the team better."It's hard to see how this exchange wouldn't improve the Mavericks. Drummond would immediately add bulk and boards, and the trade cost would be minuscule. James Johnson has fallen out of the rotation. The same goes for Dwight Powell, who's owed more than $11 million each of the next two seasons. Dented cans aren't discounted this much.For Cleveland, though, Drummond lost any hope of being its center of the future once Jarrett Allen came aboard. The Cavs have already shifted to life after Drummond, so anything they bring back at this point would help them come out ahead. The chance one or both of the second-round picks could hit on someone interesting should be enough for Cleveland to sign off on the swap."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2932...nd-sellers

[KillerLeft]

If they don´t trade Johnson (5 weeks left) it´s basically confirmed.

I agree, but they will.

And even if they don’t, while I will be disappointed, I will still be more excited about the cap space than I would’ve been watching Wright on this team all year. I realize there are some people who have convinced themselves that the Mavs will never, ever use cap space to a positive effect, but I am not among them. After watching Richardson this season, I am cracking the door of expectations open a bit to include free agency again. I won’t be devastated if they choose to let he and Johnson expire. Even THJ, if they have a good plan for the space. The only reason I prefer a trade is that I can’t currently see what free agency plan might exist, but that obviously mean there’s not a good path out there.

The Mavs make mistakes, just like every team, but most of them can be solved. The only major obstacle right now is Porzingis, and even that can be fixed.

[Omega_Supreme]

The extremely pro-Drummond people are, to me, the same type of people who used to believe Danny Fortson was the answer to all of the Nash/Dirk/Finley era problems. He was not.

In fact, Fortson is a good comp for Drummond in some ways. He was the “best” rebounder for a while, too. Like Drummond, he just didn’t play an all around game that helped achieve wins.

Andre Drummond is a 2 time all star...Fortson was a journeymen undersized big man that was lucky to make most teams he was on. 

Don't disrespect Drummond like that man, com on bro

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...5581785089

[Kammrath]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2933...rade-value

[MFFL]

I was talking to my son and we agreed that a modern big has to do at least 2 things - score, rebound, defend or create

Porzingis just scores

If you do 3 like Davis then you are a superstar

[SleepingHero]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2933...rade-value

Isn't the motto for the Mavs Front Office is "If you heard about it in the press it's 100% not true/Didn't come from the Mavs?"

Especially considering this is filled with quotes from anonymous front office individuals from other teams that are just assuming what the Mavs are doing given that Donnie is known to wheel and deal.

Does that mean to say I don't think Donnie shopped KP? No. Of course he did because that's his job. But just because he shopped him doesn't mean he's actually motivated at all to trade him.