2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[RDB]

I never understood why the Hawks didn't want to just give him the max and make him a cornerstone of their franchise with Trae and build on that, but they seem very reluctant to do so.    I get that he's a bit of a tweener on defense ... too slow to guard stretch bigs on the perimeter and doesn't provide enough rim  protection to plant under the rim.   Also maybe his offense is little anitiquated and built around mid range 2, though he's very efficient at making them maybe they don't want to make it a feature  of their offense.   It's very strange.   Maybe they just don't view him as a max player.

To my untrained eye it does seem a little confusing.  He did shoot 40% from 3 last year on 3.5 attempts.  I did see some articles from Atlanta writers and they seem to think he will be gone...much to their dismay.  They also don't seem to think they can keep him at a max salary with some of their other issues and players acquired/drafted.  Their focus seems to be on potential TDL destinations.

Here is an interesting article on Collins
https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2021/1/20...n-analysis

[ClutchDirk]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2927...h-of-games

[cow]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2927...h-of-games

I'll keep wishing for Lonzo Ball.

[Kammrath]

I'll keep wishing for Lonzo Ball.

I hear you....but as an RFA he is going to be hard to attain.

[cow]

I hear you....but as an RFA he is going to be hard to attain.

Yeah.  I just think he's the perfect guy next to KP and Luka as the core.  Defends, playmaker, makes his teams better when he's on the floor despite not having the best shooting numbers but he also doesn't need to put up the attempts that Luka and KP will command.  If New Orleans does look to move him, I think he's the level of player that we might be able to obtain given our assets.

[dirkfansince1998]

I'll keep wishing for Lonzo Ball.

Budget version that should be available for trade is Ricky Rubio. His contract matches Johnsons expiring. If the Wolves are interested in capspace this should be an easy trade.

[cow]

Budget version that should be available for trade is Ricky Rubio. His contract matches Johnsons expiring. If the Wolves are interested in capspace this should be an easy trade.

I guess I'm thinking more long term rather than a stopgap.

[KillerLeft]

So the problem with EITHER Lonzo or Rubio, both of whom I like, is Richardson. 

Richardson is NOT a shooter. You put ANOTHER non-shooter who prefers to handle the ball on the floor, that makes THREE of them. That's one too many, imo.

IF Richardson can be THE secondary playmaker we've all been screaming for, then the Mavs are in good shape. If he's not good enough at that, then he is not a fit here, imo. Not being good enough as a handler doesn't magically transform him into being good enough as a catch and shoot guy who can work off ball to get shot opportunities to be the type of floor spacer the team needs. This, essentially, is why Delon Wright didn't work here. I'm a little worried that while Richardson is clearly better, he too might be an ill-fitting part on offense. Time will tell. 

You want to REPLACE Richardson with Lonzo? I'm listening to that, I think. Luka/Lonzo/Richardson TOGETHER would be a disaster.

[SleepingHero]

Richardson is NOT a shooter. You put ANOTHER non-shooter who prefers to handle the ball on the floor, that makes THREE of them. That's one too many, imo.

I know Lonzo isn't having that good of a season, but he shot nearly 38% on threes last year on 7 attempts a game. If he can do anything remotely like that then he's ideally the perfect off-guard for Luka. Big and willing defender, who is also a heady passer with a penchant of razzle dazzle.

Unfortunately I don't see the Pels being interested in anything the Mavs got. Maybe a package around THJ+Brunson for Lonzo+Reddick makes sense on paper but it seems like NOP is losing big there.

[cow]

I know Lonzo isn't having that good of a season, but he shot nearly 38% on threes last year on 7 attempts a game. If he can do anything remotely like that then he's ideally the perfect off-guard for Luka. Big and willing defender, who is also a heady passer with a penchant of razzle dazzle.

Unfortunately I don't see the Pels being interested in anything the Mavs got. Maybe a package around THJ+Brunson for Lonzo+Reddick makes sense on paper but it seems like NOP is losing big there.

Players have often seen upticks in shooting percentages next to Luka and in Carlisle's system, so I don't see why Lonzo couldn't do the same.

Add in our FRP, SRPs, and be willing to sub THJ for JRich and one of Maxi/DFS.  I think we could make a somewhat attractive package.

[SleepingHero]

Add in our FRP, SRPs, and be willing to sub THJ for JRich and one of Maxi/DFS.  I think we could make a somewhat attractive package.

The thing is I don't think Lonzo is worth JRich alone, let alone him AND 1 of Maxi/DFS. Not even close. 

A package of JRich/Maxi/a 1st/2nds is a baseline package for an all-star in my mind. Not a role player struggling.

[KillerLeft]

Guys, I’m not suggesting that Lonzo wouldn’t shoot well enough here. What I’m saying is that you don’t bring him here unless you expect him to handle the ball the second most on the team and be that secondary playmaker. And, in that scenario, what I AM saying is that Richardson is going to be BAD.

[cow]

The thing is I don't think Lonzo is worth JRich alone, let alone him AND 1 of Maxi/DFS. Not even close. 

A package of JRich/Maxi/a 1st/2nds is a baseline package for an all-star in my mind. Not a role player struggling.

I'm not saying all of them, just be willing to part with some combination of those assets.  

Look at how the Pacers choked us with that Box and One in the 3rd quarter.

[omahen]

Players have often seen upticks in shooting percentages next to Luka and in Carlisle's system, so I don't see why Lonzo couldn't do the same.

Lonzo was shooting wide open threes last season as teams were just leaving him open. He would not get any better looks in Dallas. His basketball IQ is suspect. Personally I have never really see him play good and smart basketball. I can see the potential and idea and Mavs surely need a secondary facilitator, but I am not really convinced.

Unfortunately I don't see the Pels being interested in anything the Mavs got.

I think it all depends on if they even want to keep him. I have a hard time estimating his value. On one hand you have theoretic potential and one efficient season, on the other hand you have 3 nothing special ones. On one hand I think a young player and a FRP would be enough but on the other hand Pels might aim for a star trade with him.

[SleepingHero]

Look at how the Pacers choked us with that Box and One in the 3rd quarter.

I don't think Lonzo Ball would've really changed that tonight.

Perhaps if the Mavs had Richardson/Maxi/DFS along with Lonzo then yeah, but not Lonzo alone.

---

Personally I have never really see him play good and smart basketball.

I disagree with you here. I think Lonzo plays supremely smart basketball a lot of time. However, he also is chasing the "homerun" play too often. He always looks for the fanciest pass or to get out in transition where is talents truly shine instead of making the simple play.

[cow]

I don't think Lonzo Ball would've really changed that tonight.

Perhaps if the Mavs had Richardson/Maxi/DFS along with Lonzo then yeah, but not Lonzo alone.

---

JRich my be able to relieve some of the pressure but he's not a great secondary creator.

[Branduil]

So the problem with EITHER Lonzo or Rubio, both of whom I like, is Richardson. 

Richardson is NOT a shooter. You put ANOTHER non-shooter who prefers to handle the ball on the floor, that makes THREE of them. That's one too many, imo.

IF Richardson can be THE secondary playmaker we've all been screaming for, then the Mavs are in good shape. If he's not good enough at that, then he is not a fit here, imo. Not being good enough as a handler doesn't magically transform him into being good enough as a catch and shoot guy who can work off ball to get shot opportunities to be the type of floor spacer the team needs. This, essentially, is why Delon Wright didn't work here. I'm a little worried that while Richardson is clearly better, he too might be an ill-fitting part on offense. Time will tell. 

You want to REPLACE Richardson with Lonzo? I'm listening to that, I think. Luka/Lonzo/Richardson TOGETHER would be a disaster.

The problem with Lonzo is that he's trash. Can't shoot even when left wide open, can't score inside either, literally the opposite of a spacer on offense. Can't believe people are suggesting trading JRich for him, let alone thinking Lonzo Ball is somehow not one of the worst fits possible with Luka.

[aguiar95]

One other problem with DFS/Maxi/KP starting, is that none of them can handle/drive the ball, making our offense a lot more predictable. Put your best defender on Luka and run the others of the 3-pt line. 

If people aren't satisfied with J-Rich as the SG, I see as available upgrades Lavine/Dipo. Other path is upgrade at forward, preferably with someone that can handle the ball and defend, like Aaron Gordon and send Maxi or DFS to the bench.

Lonzo does not help us, because he is not agressive enough. I'd rather bet on White/Dragic/Bruson. At least I know they can get a bucket.

[SleepingHero]

The problem with Lonzo is that he's trash. Can't shoot even when left wide open, can't score inside either, literally the opposite of a spacer on offense.

If this was 2 years ago I'd agree with you. But Lonzo put up some solid numbers last year. This year he hasn't been consistent at all. He'd have 1 good game then 2 bad ones. 

But even still he had a 4 game stretch (he's only played 10 games) so far where he averaged 15.5ppg/5.8apg/5.5rpg on 43.1/36.7/50

So he can still get there. 37% from 3 was right where he was last year

[dirkfansince1998]

If this was 2 years ago I'd agree with you. But Lonzo put up some solid numbers last year. This year he hasn't been consistent at all. He'd have 1 good game then 2 bad ones. 

But even still he had a 4 game stretch (he's only played 10 games) so far where he averaged 15.5ppg/5.8apg/5.5rpg on 43.1/36.7/50

So he can still get there. 37% from 3 was right where he was last year

Lonzo is basically oldman Jason Kidd without the leadership and vet experience. Can be valuable for some teams but most teams need lead ballhandlers that can run the pick and roll and create of the dribble. Lonzo has no pull up game and is among the worst finishers in the paint among all players. Good thing is that at least last season his 3-point shooting was improving. FT numbers are still questionable.
Really like his defense and passing ability. Not sure if he could play next to Luka.