2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[omahen]

I would not be surprised that Houston falls out of contention and they make another move to further reduce their tax bill

They are below the tax as it is

The best option for a secondary playmaker - IF we think that is the greatest need - might be Victor Oladipo.

He might be available and obtainable for Mavs assets. Although, if Houston starts a fire sale at one point, I would go after Wood

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

The best option for a secondary playmaker - IF we think that is the greatest need - might be Victor Oladipo.

I would not be surprised that Houston falls out of contention and they make another move to further reduce their tax bill, and VO would be the easiest piece to accomplish that goal.

Between Oladipo, Derozan, Lowry, George Hill there should be a cheap rental available that is a clear upgrade over Burke and play in your crunch time 5 in the playoffs.   Honestly, Id rather them take a cheap rental than overpay just because someone is 25 and try to shoehorn him into a "foundational piece" when they're not one. I agree with the sentiment that the roster as currently constructed is pretty good. No need to shake everything up for a player that's probably not worth shaking everything up for (*cough* Buddy Hield *cough*). The bar of "better than Trey Burke" just isn't that difficult to clear.

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I think J Rich is as much of a secondary playmaker as the Mavs need alongside Luka.

I'm thinking more along the lines of someone with a career PER better than 12.6 and a career positive offensive Plus Minus.

[cow]

I don't think it's time to be rigid with the roster and beyond Luka and KP, everyone should be on the table. While we don't have the assets for a Beal, we do have some interesting components:

-Maxi: Versatile defender who can hit open threes. On an inexpensive contract.
-DFS: See Maxi
-Brunson: Shown flashes and would probably thrive given a bigger role. I don't think he's a starter but he is an asset.
-Johnson: Expiring. Shown he can contribute.
-THJ: Expiring. Can get as hot as just about any player in the league from outside.
-JRich: Expiring. Great defender. Okay on the offensive end hitting shots or creating his own.
-Boban Expiring. Locker room glue guy.
-Burke: Value Contract. Can contribute.
-WCS: See Burke
-Rookies
-FRP

Outside of it being a last resort, I just can't imagine the Mavs resigning both THJ and JRich this offseason and due to the proximity to the trade, my guess is JRich is the priority. The team build goals are probably loftier than a core of Luka, KP, JRich, THJ. If the MBT goal is for the big thee, you already have LeBron (Luka) and Wade (KP) and "just" need to find your Bosh. I'm sure they'll be willing to sacrifice any combination of the above to accomplish that. Being opportunistic at the TDL is also a Donnie special. Who knows what will present itself?

[SkenfromLMF]

As we have said in the thread, any trade that is not based around Powell is a hard trade at this point, and I am afraid the MBT feels that a Powell trade is too costly.

Later in the year a Johnson and Terry/Brunson for Oladipo deal might feel more digestible but right now the team is rolling and I don't know that messing with it is in our best interest this year.

I would rather have Oladipo than Johnson this summer though so... I can see the value of a deal, but I don't think they HAVE to do something.

The issue with Powell is that his salary alone does not approach the 16.8 million it takes to make the trade for Oladipo. My thinking would be to try to go through Orlando with Brunson and direct a pick to Houston, but that still leaves about 4 million shy of a successful trade range. Adding Iwundu and Brunson still lacks about 3 million and probably requires Green to work... Johnson gets there immediately, but I am much less inclined to go that route (Johnson + Terry) at the moment.

I think the advantage, IF mark can stomach it, would be a cash consideration going to Houston to seal the deal.

[KillerLeft]

Here's something that's not being said by many people, maybe because it's so unthinkably foreign to basketball fans, but that I think might possibly be true: Is it possible that the main reason for flipping Lavert into Oladipo from Houston's perspective was simply the ability to let him expire and get money off of the books? Is it possible that they don't at all view him as an asset in any way?

[F Gump]

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I'm thinking more along the lines of someone with a career PER better than 12.6 and a career positive offensive Plus Minus.

You can make out your wish list any way you want. Of course, the more stellar the criteria, the higher the salary, the more it will take to acquire them, and the less you will have at other positions.

I'm not saying that J Rich is perfect. Just saying that I don't think that replacing him with a "better playmaker" is the route to an improved team -- Luka is going to be doing the vast majority of the playmaking, which renders that upgrade mostly unused, and you're probably left much worse in other areas by the change.

[omahen]

Here's something that's not being said by many people, maybe because it's so unthinkably foreign to basketball fans, but that I think might possibly be true: Is it possible that the main reason for flipping Lavert into Oladipo from Houston's perspective was simply the ability to let him expire and get money off of the books? Is it possible that they don't at all view him as an asset in any way?

It is possible that Houston sees Oladipo as better player than LeVert. It is also possible they want this contract of the books next season (they can't pay him max anyway, if they want to avoid tax), which than kind of makes sense to trade him at TDL.

[F Gump]

Here's something that's not being said by many people, maybe because it's so unthinkably foreign to basketball fans, but that I think might possibly be true: Is it possible that the main reason for flipping Lavert into Oladipo from Houston's perspective was simply the ability to let him expire and get money off of the books? Is it possible that they don't at all view him as an asset in any way?

I think it's more likely that they think they can get much more for Olapipo than for Lavert, when they auction him off soon. They did it because they had the opportunity.

[Tyler]

Here's something that's not being said by many people, maybe because it's so unthinkably foreign to basketball fans, but that I think might possibly be true: Is it possible that the main reason for flipping Lavert into Oladipo from Houston's perspective was simply the ability to let him expire and get money off of the books? Is it possible that they don't at all view him as an asset in any way?

Everything I've seen so far indicates that reducing payroll is the plan in Houston, as nobody expects Tillman to pay big money for a bad team. But rather than simply letting him expire, IMO the odds are very high that they look to flip Oladipo at the deadline for another expiring plus inexpensive assets like picks and rookie scale players.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

You can make out your wish list any way you want. Of course, the more stellar the criteria, the higher the salary, the more it will take to acquire them, and the less you will have at other positions.

I'm not saying that J Rich is perfect. Just saying that I don't think that replacing him with a "better playmaker" is the route to an improved team -- Luka is going to be doing the vast majority of the playmaking, which renders that upgrade mostly unused, and you're probably left much worse in other areas by the change.

I think a lot of Mavs fans have this vision of ideal basketball where Luka dribbles the air out of the ball while 4 other players hang around the 3 point arc which is extremely rudimentary and easy to defend by NBA standards and a style that probably won't get you beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs, as the Rockets showed.   Mavs resorted to a lot of that style of play last year when they needed basket at end of game situations after play stoppages when defenses had time to gameplan and set up ... and the results were pretty horrific.      

As I said, Lebron is the best point forward to ever play the game. Likely the best combination of off the dribble rim finisher and floor chessmaster we've ever seen.  And he's at his best when paired with Playoff Rondo, Kyrie or prime/healthy Wade to balance the offense and keep defenses honest off the dribble and defend from endline to endline. When he didn't have that guy, his offenses stagnate in the playoffs. Just like the Rockets went from bullying the Warriors to abysmally predictable when CP3 pulled his hamstring and they had to go back to 1 dimensional Harden Ball. I know the CP3s and Kyries don't grow on trees and I'm not expecting that caliber of player, but I don't know why you wouldn't want to give Luka something somewhat resembling that kind of supporting player to take that role, rather than a guy with a career 12.6 PER and a negaitive OBPM in that role. Especially now when NBA defenses are commonly start sending guys at the high end playmakers as soon as they cross at the half court line to get the ball out of their hands. You really got to have two guys who can get a basket off the dribble on the floor at crunch time in the playoffs, and I would say that has been a big issue for the Bucks in the playoffs as well.

[F Gump]

I think a lot of Mavs fans have this vision of ideal basketball where Luka dribbles the air out of the ball while 4 other players hang around the 3 point arc which is ....

.... I don't know why you wouldn't want to give Luka something somewhat resembling that kind of supporting player to take that role, rather than a guy with ....

I do not have a preference for the "dribbling the air out of the ball" idea you describe - instead, I don't think it's the binary choice you and a few others are making it out to be that such a move as you want is the one and only way to prevent that.

I think J Rich is more than enough to already be the player "somewhat resembling that kind of supporting player to take that role" as well as other players on the roster too. He has been here for only 8 games. Let's see how it develops. Not saying he's perfect, just that he's good enough.

I think J Rich provides high value in other areas that are even more valuable to the overall bottom line than the marginal upgrade that MIGHT be added with a more dominant offensive player replacing him. And I think the difference from such a player would  only be seen at the margins of the offense, limited by the fact that such a new player would only be playmaking when Luka doesn't have the ball in his hands, which means his "added playmaking" value will be dampened in its actual value.

Weigh all of those issues against the assets it would take to obtain such a player, and the extra salary you'll probably tie up in him (which means the less you have to spend elsewhere), and I think it wouldn't be an actual upgrade to the overall team, even if one small part is made better. You have to pick your spots, and I don't think that's the route to overall improvement over where they are now.

[omahen]

I think J Rich provides high value in other areas that are even more valuable to the overall bottom line than the marginal upgrade that MIGHT be added with a more dominant offensive player replacing him.

I don't think anyone wants to replace JRich. All ideas are based on him staying.

[omahen]

Looking just at the offensive side, DeRozan would be an excellent secondary facilitator. I wonder what his price would be at TDL

[SleepingHero]

Looking just at the offensive side, DeRozan would be an excellent secondary facilitator. I wonder what his price would be at TDL

At minimum THJ+Brunson+a pick of some sort. SAS would probably want even more. And I don't think the Mavs are really clamoring to add a non-shooter to the starting lineup. 

I like DeRozan but if he's too expensive I'd  try and grab him in free agency and if not then I'm not losing sleep over it.

[F Gump]

I don't think the Mavs are really clamoring to add a non-shooter 

This

[cow]

Maybe better for a new thread but what about looking at potential TDL sellers and names that could be available. Just a quick spitball:

Eastern:

Pistons: Rose, Griffin
Wizards: Beal,
Raptors: Lowry, Siakam
Bulls: Lavine, Carter Jr., Markkanen, Porter Jr.
Cavs: Love, Drummond, McGee
Knicks: Randle, Robinson, Ntiikina
Magic: Gorden, Bamba, Fournier, Vucevic, Ross

Western:

Wolves: ???
Rockets: Oladipo, Tucker, Gordon
Kings: Bagley, Hield
Thunder: Horford, Hill
Spurs: Aldridge, Derozan
Grizzlies: ???
Pelicans: Bledsoe

[KillerLeft]

Wolves:  ???

[SleepingHero]

why is that gif so high quality.

[omahen]

At minimum THJ+Brunson+a pick of some sort.

I was actually thinking in the lines of Johnson+Powell+Brunson+2027 pick. This would leave us with 17 mil of cap space if we decide to let DeRozan walk in the summer but keep THJ and Richardson at 15 mil each. I don't think SA could get much more for half a year. And whats the point of keeping him for them.

And I don't think the Mavs are really clamoring to add a non-shooter to the starting lineup.

It is only important if opponents are leaving him wide open or not and I don't think they do. So he would not kill the spacing. Other than that, he is an excellent mid range shooter.

[Branduil]

It's way too early to judge JRich as a playmaker, running plays requires knowing the offense and he was only traded here on draft night and we had no real training camp. That Philly team was dysfunctional, I think Miami's offense and culture is much more similar to the Mavs and he did a decent job there.