BOBI!!!: All things Boban

[StepBackJay]

+25 last night. He has played two games and played great in limited minutes. I realize his is extremely matchup dependent but man in 2 games he has looked fantastic. I think his shooting touch around the basket will get better too with more consistent minutes in the rotation.

[vfromlmf]

Boban can be exploited if the opposing coach knows when he's going to be on the floor. In other words, I'm not sure you can dictate matchups with Boban; but you can counter with him. He's a tactical weapon Carlisle can deploy only if the conditions are right. 

An example would be if an opposing backup big is a non-shooter.

[Kammrath]

The BEST thing he did last night was this:

Set screens for Luka.

He is by far the best screen setter on the team and gave Luka SO much room to work with because his body is big, he doesn't shy away from contact (which seems to be KP's great weakness is screening, almost never makes actual contact, just fake screens), and the angle and set up of his screens are elite. 

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

You're using Boban correctly when you come away thinking he should get more minutes. Leave him exposed against a stretch big, you'll come away thinking he needs less. McGee/Howard and Tristan Thompson are exactly the type of no-ranged-jumpshot bigs he should play against. Against Jokic he should never take off the jump suit.

[fifteenth]

Maybe he needs more minutes, or maybe he's best used sparingly so that he can be a spot duty superstar. I don't know.

But, here's one thought: Boban probably doesn't need minutes for development purposes. He seems fully able to be the ultimate "be ready" guy. Someone compared him to how DSteve was used. He didn't get a ton of burn in the regular season, but played a key role in the playoffs. Peja was like that too in 2011. Maybe that's what JJB is now too. What other coach can keep players of the quality of JJB and Boban in his back pocket, to insert them at key moments?

Also remember that Rick will play particular players for weeks, gather data, and then change things up a bit and play other players. We'll have to keep an eye on this one to see how it plays out.

[Kammrath]

To be clear, I don't think Boban should get more than 20 mins a night. I think he is best in spurts. But I INSIST that he needs nightly spurts, versus almost every team. I do not believe in DNPing him. The mismatches always cut both ways. And I also insist that KP+Boban is REALLY good for this team, regardless of the other team's personnel.

[fifteenth]

And I also insist that KP+Boban is REALLY good for this team, regardless of the other team's personnel.

They certainly made you look good last night. Boban seems like a guy that will pretty much just do what he does when he's put out there. And what he does is fun to watch and very productive. And it was really cool to see that he and KP could be productive together.

[ItsGoTime]

And I also insist that KP+Boban is REALLY good for this team, regardless of the other team's personnel.

I've been impressed with this duo as well. Twin towers hasn't ever really been a good thing in the NBA for the most part, but the length those two display has got to be intimidating to any G driving the lane.

[Kammrath]

They certainly made you look good last night. Boban seems like a guy that will pretty much just do what he does when he's put out there. And what he does is fun to watch and very productive. And it was really cool to see that he and KP could be productive together.

I just posted this in another thread:

So in 8 minutes together on the court this season, KP + Boban:

Offensive Rating: 170.6
Defensive Rating: 94.6
Net: +76.1

[Mak]

His career average is less than 10mpg so the 15+ minutes he got is already an increased amount. Probably best to see if he can sustain his production by increasing his playing time by a few minutes like that for a bit than taking more drastic measures cuz he’s ridiculously large and it’s amazing he can play at all at his size.

[fifteenth]

I just posted this in another thread:

So in 8 minutes together on the court this season, KP + Boban:

Offensive Rating: 170.6
Defensive Rating: 94.6
Net: +76.1

LOL. That's video game stuff.

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I try to think about, figure out, what Rick is thinking and doing when we dive into these discussions. I just can't imagine that Rick isn't aware of the type of production that Bobi has in him. I don't think Rick has some question in his mind about the Bobi's value and abilities. I think the reason he's not playing must be something like that Boban doesn't need early season minutes for development and that Rick is content on developing the rest of the roster, having Boban in his back pocket, with a plan to unleash him more as the season progresses.

[BigDirk41]

I agree with Kamm on this one. Boban needs 15-20 minutes every game. Even if it's just 15, he needs to play every game. He's too much of a force to sit on the bench. We need to force teams to adapt to our style of play, not the other way around. If a team goes small on Boban, force feed him the ball in the post and punish the little man guarding him. Don't forget that Boban can shoot the 3 if RC wants him to play that role. Maybe play some zone when Boban is in the game or mix and match some man and zone to throw the other teams off. RC is smart enough to figure it out if he wants.

[Kammrath]

We need to force teams to adapt to our style of play, not the other way around.

The Mavs finally have the personnel and talent to do this. No more letting the other teams dictate.

[vfromlmf]

How game changing would it be to start Boban? 

I realize this is basically the opposite of what I said above ... and it's well known that Boban's stats per minute are Shaq-like... among the most dominant centers of all time... it's no secret he's good in spurts. 

So of course, the question has to be asked, why has no other team started him? 

... but geez, the idea of starting Boban and bringing Powell & Kleber off the bench is intriguing. He sure has nice chemistry with Doncic.

I've heard talk about the "return of the big man" ...

[Dahlsim]

To be clear, I don't think Boban should get more than 20 mins a night. I think he is best in spurts. But I INSIST that he needs nightly spurts, versus almost every team. I do not believe in DNPing him. The mismatches always cut both ways. And I also insist that KP+Boban is REALLY good for this team, regardless of the other team's personnel.

Ah, one of my pet points to rant on here.  My man Boban! 
I'm with you on this Kam and its been a point I've posted about consistently about Boban the last few years especially.   

In fact here's a link to the OLD  Forum where D. Lord and I actually debated the topic of Boban's usage in some detail.  (@Magickian - I'm getting dark purple hyper links on the dark theme of the forum, hard to read) 


Boban is an amazing player, statistically over short minutes he's one of the most efficient players of all times, ranking with the all time HoF NBA greats.  
Its very odd though because Big TEX Boban only does this in a reserve limited minute role.  He has been occasionally used as a started and done ok for example for a short stretch in a San Antonio as a Spur and for a few games Philadelphia.  He actually helped Philly win the Nets playoff series particularly when Embiid missed time.  

Yes, some matchups will work against you with Boban but even in those matchups a coach could try Boban and give it some time to see if the other team is winning the mismatch or not.  Doc Rivers described this in some detail.  A stretch big in a 5-out set for example can't guarantee that he's hitting his 3 points or that they are exploiting the PnR over Boban right fast enough to make up for Boban absolutely collapsing their interior defense and getting their BIGS in foul trouble. 

Which way will the match up go from night to night.  A great example came in the recent Mavs / Laker game.  Coach Carlisle IMO made a mistake by not at least trying to go back to Boban, who had been giving the Laker bigs problems. 

Dwight Howard, Javale McGee and yes even Anthony Davis have problem defending Boban and he's a problem on the boards as well as defending the rim (even though his aggression as a shot blocker has always been poor by all oberservations).  He's a big body and big wingspan to work around even without being a particularly skilled great rim protector.  He was a block to Tristan Thompson of the Cavs and Kevin Love.   

I LOVE the way the super high BBIQ of Luka knows how to leverage both Boban and KP.  Its a thing of beauty to watch.  Luka a prodigy of pressing the advantage of his teammates skills and KP / Boban are loaded with mismatch advantages every night.

[StepBackJay]

15 mpg is probably perfect for Boban. My thinking is tho when he's rolling just leave him out there until the other team proves they can stop him or he gets tired (bc he's massive). I feel like sometimes he checks out when he's rolling. I have yet to see him exploited but we'll see. I was very down on Boban in preseason, I just didn't get what he did that had value. Now I am loving him and I think 15 mpg most nights (still matchup dependent) would be great.

[SportPsychMav]

Boban might be Porzingis best Frontcourt partner and he can shoot!

They are very complementary players.

[vfromlmf]

One thing I know for certain is Don Nelson (Sr) would start Boban Marjanovich.

Interesting quote from the fivethirtyeight article referenced above: "But [Boban's] situation as a historically efficient scorer who still doesn’t see consistent playing time also speaks to how the abundance of perimeter shooting in today’s NBA has made life nearly impossible for rim-protecting 7-footers who lack the mobility to come out and defend past the free-throw line."

Carlisle made a point in his post-game to talk about how well Boban was defending guys on the perimeter vs CLE. 

Maybe Carlisle is himself intrigued ....

(awesome discussion on the old board by the way)

[fifteenth]

I love Boban. I was just getting giddy watching his highlights. But you guys are leaning so hard in one direction in this discussion that you're not even considering why we might be keeping him in the back pocket a bit. I threw at out one theory above. Another thing to consider is that a KP/Boban would most likely get torched against a good 4-out or 5-out lineup. Maybe we'd outscore them anyway, maybe not.

I want Bobi to play. I especially want him to contribute at key times, especially in the playoffs, but in a one sided discussion like this I'm compelled to suggest that there are considerations other than just "he should play".

[Dahlsim]

I love Boban. I was just getting giddy watching his highlights. But you guys are leaning so hard in one direction in this discussion that you're not even considering why we might be keeping him in the back pocket a bit. I threw at out one theory above. Another thing to consider is that a KP/Boban would most likely get torched against a good 4-out or 5-out lineup. Maybe we'd outscore them anyway, maybe not.

I want Bobi to play. I especially want him to contribute at key times, especially in the playoffs, but in a one sided discussion like this I'm compelled to suggest that there are considerations other than just "he should play".

The 5-out rotations and even more that strong PnR offense can both be examples where Boban and KP/Boban combinations have problems.  I do like them together sometimes though because I find KP can play like a 7'3" PF or even a 7'3" small forward and he can also block shots much better than Boban. 
Boban on the other hand can body up much better against Physical play than KP. 

Using Boban is definitely a chess match between coaches.  Doc Rivers had a great commentary on what he thought about using Boban against the obvious stretch BIG and 5-out rotations opponents use to drive him off the floor.  

He basically said he like to roll him out and see which way the match up went because in that case it could go either way.  If your guy(s) are hitting their shots then maybe Boban is getting in and getting back out quickly. 

This happened in the Philly vs. Toronto playoff series last season.  Boban had been good against the Nets but against the Raptors he was getting killed in the PnR.  I think part of the issue was because they weren't feeding him the ball on offense so they were giving up but not taking anything back but either way, Coach Brown pulled the Boban Plug on that one.  I thought they should have run more offense for him to offset defensive issues after all that series came down to just a single bucket or two, but I get giving up on it as well. 

On the other hand opponents are not always on fire outside or even in the PnR.  
If Boban is holding his own defensively and meanwhile eating inside and getting to the line (solid free throw shooter) and getting your BIGS and your team in foul trouble then he might easily be taking more then he's giving.

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One thing I know for certain is Don Nelson (Sr) would start Boban Marjanovich.

Interesting quote from the fivethirtyeight article referenced above: "But [Boban's] situation as a historically efficient scorer who still doesn’t see consistent playing time also speaks to how the abundance of perimeter shooting in today’s NBA has made life nearly impossible for rim-protecting 7-footers who lack the mobility to come out and defend past the free-throw line."

Carlisle made a point in his post-game to talk about how well Boban was defending guys on the perimeter vs CLE. 

Maybe Carlisle is himself intrigued ....

(awesome discussion on the old board by the way)

That's a good take I think.  Carlisle seems at least intrigued by what he can do with Boban and with the KP/Boban giant pairing. 
One thing for sure, Luka Doncic knows what to do with each of them, and that is great for Dallas if Carlisle will get Boban in the mix because we know KP will get his minutes. 

If you ever read or listen to some of Bobans comment on basketball, his BBIQ is very solid.  He knows his own weaknesses, he knows what can do with PnR and what his limits are even though he can only be so fast of foot physically.  He knows he has a massive wingspan to he can try and at least bother shots from a longer distance away. 

He seems to have gotten better about challenging out at the 3 point line as you mention, so if the defense calls for him to come all the way out and guard the stretch 5, he will. 

His lack of aggression to block and put a body on guys that drives to the hoop sometimes aggravates me to watch.  Guys sometimes drive to the hoop too freely when Boban should just lay some wood on them as he at least attempts a strong block, but that just doesn't seem to be in his nature to do.