2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[juanc]

We have a bruiser PF on defense, that can't be moved in/near the paint. His name is Luka Dončić

[ItsGoTime]

He's moved quite a bit everytime the ref doesn't call a foul for him. Unfortunately it's not down the court.

[Branduil]

So here's a somewhat off-the-wall(heh) idea I had for a trade with the post-Harden Rockets, especially if they trade for someone like Simmons:

https://tradenba.com/trades/NyEImoIya

The Rockets get rid of the worst contract in the league and get some more shooting around Simmons, and the Mavs get more assets and the most overpaid backup PG in the league who will be the mother of all expirings in two years.

Post-trade lineup

Luka / Wall
JRich / Burke
DFS / House
Tucker / Maxi
KP / WCS

[david75090]

I've really liked some of defense he's played.  Was really impressed when he was matched up against LeBron.

I was hoping Johnson would be part of a committee that Rick would use to defend LeBron. Try and keep a fresh guy on him and put pressure on him. Get LeBron to use up his energy faster, in an effort to wear him down. Much like Rick did in the 2011 finals. LeBron is less effective when tired out.

[StepBackJay]

So here's a somewhat off-the-wall(heh) idea I had for a trade with the post-Harden Rockets, especially if they trade for someone like Simmons:

https://tradenba.com/trades/NyEImoIya

The Rockets get rid of the worst contract in the league and get some more shooting around Simmons, and the Mavs get more assets and the most overpaid backup PG in the league who will be the mother of all expirings in two years.

Post-trade lineup

Luka / Wall
JRich / Burke
DFS / House
Tucker / Maxi
KP / WCS

There is no universe where Wall is not starting on any team he is on. Also I think he stays put.

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Re: Johnson / PG talk... 

Johnson PG, WCS as SF, Maxi at PF, KP at center - Kamms vision would be complete!

[dirkfansince1998]

Honestly...I am not really concerned about the position of any potential new starter. Fit is obviously important but with Luka in the lineup the Mavs have a lot of options.

So many options and the only position that Luka cannot really play on paper is center. On offense he is the PG and that makes it a lot easier for the Mavs because they don´t need an undersized playmaker in the lineup. On defense he guards the worst opposing scorer from 1-4. One rim protector and one guy that can defend quicker guards next tom him. Thankfully Dallas already has starting quality players for both roles.
For me it is all about adding the 4th high quality starter. The position doesn´t really matter.

Add a PG

x/Richardson/Doncic/DFS(Maxi)/KP

Add a SG

Doncic/x/Richardson/Maxi(DFS)/KP

Add a SF

Doncic/Richardson/x/DFS(Maxi)/KP

Add a PF

Doncic/Richardson/THJ(DFS)/x/KP

Add a C

Doncic/Richardson/DFS(THJ)/KP/x


Move the 5th-7th best guys to the bench or use one of them (THJ) in the trade. Depending on the addition only one out of THJ, DFS and Maxi starts.

[omahen]

Honestly...I am not really concerned about the position of any potential new starter. Fit is obviously important but with Luka in the lineup the Mavs have a lot of options.

So many options and the only position that Luka cannot really play on paper is center. On offense he is the PG and that makes it a lot easier for the Mavs because they don´t need an undersized playmaker in the lineup. On defense he guards the worst opposing scorer from 1-4. One rim protector and one guy that can defend quicker guards next tom him. Thankfully Dallas already has starting quality players for both roles.
For me the it is all about adding the 4th high quality starter. The position doesn´t really matter.

Add a PG

x/Richardson/Doncic/DFS(Maxi)/KP

Add a SG

Doncic/x/Richardson/Maxi(DFS)/KP

Add a SF

Doncic/Richardson/x/DFS(Maxi)/KP

Add a PF

Doncic/Richardson/THJ(DFS)/x/KP

Add a C

Doncic/Richardson/DFS(THJ)/KP/x


Move the 5th-7th best guys to the bench or use one of them (THJ) in the trade. Depending on the addition only one out of THJ, DFS and Maxi starts.

Totally agree,except perhaps for the center part. In all other cases, if a good two way player becomes available Mavs can trade for him and have a great lineup.

[Kammrath]

For me the it is all about adding the 4th high quality starter. The position doesn´t really matter.

AMEN. Great job articulating a position that I hold as well!

[KillerLeft]

For me it is all about adding the 4th high quality starter. The position doesn´t really matter

So, I agree, in a sense. All of the paths you listed in your post are possible, and it’s nice to think that the options are wide open. Luka, in particular, is unique in that he can be moved around to complement many different player types. 

But, my thinking is that there are now OTHER players in place here we’d love to keep in place. Most of them are versatile, too, but as you start combining them, the GROUP of them screams out with certain needs, imo. 

We all seem to believe that Luka, KP, and Richardson are keepers, at least for now. 

I maintain that while DFS isn’t at untouchable level, he’s more than qualified to be the 5th dude on the team, and the type of player who’s REALLY tough to get in free agency without overpaying. 

So, in an effort to finish the process in the fewest amount of steps, my goal is to end up with DFSat the 3 (@"Kammrath" tells us he can’t be the solution at the 4) and KP at the 5 (almost everyone BUT @"Kammrath" seems to agree KP can’t be a full time 4). 

To me, if you’re on board with the paragraph above, then unless you feel Powell, Kleber or Johnson is good enough (I like them all) then THAT’s the hole. Filling it with the right guy might make DFS work as the 5th starter, in which case the lineup is complete, at least for awhile. 

If you’re in camp “DFS will look fine at the 4, once KP is back” then you probably have THJ circled as the hole (my way has him on the bench). This is also a way worth trying, as it allows for considering 2’s AND 3’s, in addition to 4’s. BUT, if you get a guard who fits, you might later discover that DFS can’t hack it as the biggest wing/4, and then you’ve got another hole to fill. 

I was a big proponent of looking at PG’s this off-season, due to my thought that they needed to add ball-handling competency and playmaking. I honestly think (small sample size) that Richardson has brought more of that than we anticipated. He might not be ideal in that way, but it sure is nice not having to watch Luka bring the ball up against pressure every time just because he’s the only crunch time player qualified to do so. My early, temporary feeling is: mission accomplished. 

Of course, I think they could have more shot creation, but I don’t think it has to be a guy who does that as his MAIN skill. The absolute WORST thing they could do for Richardson, I think, is make him a full time spot up shooter. I’ve seen enough to know that while he’s ok doing that, it’s not his main game. 

So, due to having Richardson and KP in place WITH Luka, for all the thinking above my feeling is that the targets for what type of PG or Center could be added to the mix successfully are so small that those positions are effectively eliminated as possibilities. 

I think the 2, 3 and 4 are all in play, but if maximizing DFS Is important (I would like to hope that it is, only for time’s sake), that effectively takes the 2 and 3 out of the equation, too, leaving a glaring hole at the 4. 

It’s just how I see things, and I’ll admit that for an AMAZING opportunity to add an AMAZING player, DFS (and Richardson, even) can be abandoned.

[StepBackJay]

AMEN. Great job articulating a position that I hold as well!

Don't think the Mavs are thinking that way tho.

[Scott41theMavs]

It’s just how I see things, and I’ll admit that for an AMAZING opportunity to add an AMAZING player, DFS (and Richardson, even) can be abandoned.

I'm not giving up a player in JRich who fits so well with our superstar for anything less than a player who is consensus-better than Kyle Lowry. It's gotta be a top 25 player, or a young player bulletting toward top 25 on his rookie scale. Hard to imagine such a player would be available. Once again, I would love Lowry on the Mavs, but absolutely not for JRich.

Virtually every player I've proposed in trade since the offseason ended - not for JRich, no way, no how.

[KillerLeft]

@"Scott41theMavs", I agree. And to that point, if Richardson is officially in your long term planning, synergy with HIM needs to be considered now, too, when looking at possible additions. 

Personally, I put DFS on a slightly lower tier, but it sure would be nice to find a guy who allows him to work, too. 

If an addition lessens the effectiveness of multiple players, by either displacing them out of position or encroaching on their role in the offense, then my thinking is that it’s a lateral move, and possibly even subtraction disguised as addition.

[SkenfromLMF]

The weakest link right now is at the 4...

Replacing Hardaway with anything other than a starter at the 4 does nothing to address that conundrum. I would still upgrade with BPA but, I would still hold the 4 as the hole needing to be addressed.

My read is that the MBT wants Powell to be best case fix for this scenario and I don't think it is going to work. My hope for their read is that KP coming back would push everyone down a slot in the starting lineup and slide THJ to the bench. IF I understand Kamm's thinking this is why adding a PF/C is prerrable to adding more guards/wings.

One other aspect of this is that we keep hearing how devalued the C position is. Well one of the strategies of buying low is to sell your player with a sought after skill set high - THJ - and receive a player with a lesser valued set for a low cost.

My fear is that we will end up settling for a Harrison Barnes template as the new 4, or just DFS.

I believe that a relatively healthy KP at the 4 is an upgrade IF Richardson & DFS are the 2/3 starters and the 5 is better defensively than Powell.

[KillerLeft]

The weakest link right now is at the 4...

Replacing Hardaway with anything other than a starter at the 4 does nothing to address that conundrum. I would still upgrade with BPA but, I would still hold the 4 as the hole needing to be addressed.

My read is that the MBT wants Powell to be best case fix for this scenario and I don't think it is going to work. My hope for their read is that KP coming back would push everyone down a slot in the starting lineup and slide THJ to the bench. IF I understand Kamm's thinking this is why adding a PF/C is prerrable to adding more guards/wings.

One other aspect of this is that we keep hearing how devalued the C position is. Well one of the strategies of buying low is to sell your player with a sought after skill set high  - THJ - and receive a player with a lesser valued set for a low cost.

My fear is that we will end up settling for a Harrison Barnes template as the new 4, or just DFS.

I believe that a relatively healthy KP at the 4 is an upgrade IF Richardson & DFS are the 2/3 starters and the 5 is better defensively than Powell.

I agree with most of the logic here. Same page.

The only difference is that I basically can’t conceive of a scenario in which KP is your SECOND slowest player and you’re a passable defensive team. For that reason, I think DEFENSIVELY, KP needs to play 5. If it’s a Powell/Gordon type at the 4 who can play the “center role” on offense, I’m cool with that, though I don’t think it’s the only way to go.

[StepBackJay]

I definitely like Lowry if you can get him, not sure how you would pry him away from the Raptors. He would be an interesting FA target this offseason.

[ClutchDirk]

Either Powell comes back strong enough to ease concerns at PF or we need to go get someone else sooner or later due to that being our weak spot especially with others covering minutes at the 5 and DFS trying to play PF when he needs to play SF most nights and matchup...solving the 4 and DFS at the 3 and we could contend...

Its why I wanted a Giannis, healthy Isaac, or similar player...both option a and b are off the table ATM...

[Kammrath]

I definitely like Lowry if you can get him, not sure how you would pry him away from the Raptors. He would be an interesting FA target this offseason.

Not sure why we would trade out a 36 year old 6 ft guard for a 35 year old 6 ft guard.

[Scott41theMavs]

I definitely like Lowry if you can get him, not sure how you would pry him away from the Raptors. He would be an interesting FA target this offseason.

Not sure why we would trade out a 36 year old 6 ft guard for a 35 year old 6 ft guard.

Surely you're more intelligent than this post would indicate. My goodness.

---

What if you could use one of our trade pieces plus a sweetener to get George Hill, and then put a salary dump package together for Tobias Harris? 

Hill
JRich
Luka
Harris
KP

+ whatever bench pieces are left. 

Is that starting lineup strong enough on both sides of the floor? You're pretty well done for a while and looking for a means to replace Hill when he ages out. Permanent full MLE until you're paying tax. Is that a good enough team to contend?

[StepBackJay]

Not sure why we would trade out a 36 year old 6 ft guard for a 35 year old 6 ft guard.

Not sure what you are talking about? I like Lowry, he's a good player and like with CP3 we see some guys able to play into mid-30s. Lowry would be a good veteran presence. I have come around on the idea that Mavs do need another facilitator to pair with Luka. I love J Rich but I think he is best in the role he's in which doesn't require a lot of facilitation. 

If we were able to replace THJ with Lowry I think that would be a major win. Try to get him on like a 2 year deal if possible. Lineup would be something like Luka, Lowry, J Rich, DFS, KP. I will take that all day, thanks!

---

Surely you're more intelligent than this post would indicate. My goodness.

---

What if you could use one of our trade pieces plus a sweetener to get George Hill, and then put a salary dump package together for Tobias Harris? 

Hill
JRich
Luka
Harris
KP

+ whatever bench pieces are left. 

Is that starting lineup strong enough on both sides of the floor? You're pretty well done for a while and looking for a means to replace Hill when he ages out. Permanent full MLE until you're paying tax. Is that a good enough team to contend?

I like Hill, I think he will be on the radar of a bunch of teams trying to get him. Every team could use a guy like that.

I don't see why Sixers would just dump Harris for nothing, he is still a good player. If he gets traded it's going to be a guy they think fits better around their two other stars. Sixers are playing well right now so I don't think there's any rush for them to get out of his contract.

[KillerLeft]

Surely you're more intelligent than this post would indicate. My goodness.

You think maybe there might’ve been a nicer way to make your point than this?