Login

**KillerLeft** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 09:30 AM by KillerLeft.)

(10-13-2020, 07:40 AM)Kammrath Wrote: I am NOT mentally and emotionally ready for the Mavs to blow this draft by picking Pokusevski, one of the only guys I am convinced is a bust.

They won't. It just seems like people think "Dallas loves nonathletic white guys from Europe" and go with it. It's lazy thinking, imo.

(10-13-2020, 08:11 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I have no idea if Poku-man is any good. But, I will repeat something I’ve said before. If we are a top 4 team in the west, we won’t be counting on anything from whoever we draft at 18. If we are counting on such a contribution, we aren’t a top 4 team in the west.

I often read that if we don’t get this off-season right, we risk losing Luka. Actually we don’t risk anything until 2024 or 2025 when Luka is in the position Giannis is in now coming off his second contract. To me, high upside should be the order of the day, not what a player can do in the 20/21 season.

Bless you.

aguiar95 · 10-13-2020, 09:32 AM

(10-13-2020, 08:11 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I have no idea if Poku-man is any good. But, I will repeat something I’ve said before. If we are a top 4 team in the west, we won’t be counting on anything from whoever we draft at 18. If we are counting on such a contribution, we aren’t a top 4 team in the west.

I often read that if we don’t get this off-season right, we risk losing Luka. Actually we don’t risk anything until 2024 or 2025 when Luka is in the position Giannis is in now coming off his second contract. To me, high upside should be the order of the day, not what a player can do in the 20/21 season.

I tend to agree and disagree. The are a few rookies to contribute to a playoff team on their first year (Herro/Anunoby). But we can also agree that if we had a Clarke/Thybulle (#20 and #21 on last year's class), they probably would start on our squad and probably have a positive impact (maybe get us to top-4 in the West already, considering we blew a bunch of games and our competition was HOU/OKC/UTA, all teams I feel we would eliminate in a 7-game series). Bad thing is our most needed positions (SF/PF) are also the weakest on this upcomng draft. Our pick shouldn't get more than a 10mpg burn. That's why I'm skyhigh on Hampton developing here.

**Kammrath** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 09:55 AM by Kammrath.)

(10-13-2020, 08:30 AM)JamesConway Wrote: He moves like an Nba stretch PF.

He sure doesn't SHOOT like a stretch PF. Why does he get a pass for terrible shooting? Because he is European and we assume he can shoot? On top of this I just do not think his frame will allow him to be an effective NBA defender either. How will he ever get on an NBA court if he cannot even shoot?

If I am going to take a shot on guys who have played overseas and have struggled shooting I would MUCH rather go after RJ Hampton or Leandro Bolmaro. Hampton will find a place in the NBA (even if he struggles to shoot) because he will immediately have elite court speed and athleticism. Leandro has immediately ready NBA defense IMO. Much rather take a shot on those guys.

I could be 100% wrong on Pokusevski, but I personally would NOT draft him.

(10-13-2020, 08:42 AM)omahen Wrote: I think this draft will see more than usual amount of busts and more than usual amount of catches with lower picks.

Totally agreed. I LOVE the Mavs having 18 and 31 in this draft. A couple solid shots to find solid role players IMO.

Lots of film on Pokusevski if you want to see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXuvcomwOR8&t

**KillerLeft** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 11:18 AM by KillerLeft.)

To me, the upside of Pokusevski is not that he's a stretch 4, it's that he could possibly be a legitimate 7' wing (on offense, at least). He's playing the the SF spot in that video, for example. It's the HANDLE and quickness that teams are interested in, I think.

But, I think the team who invests in him has to REALLY invest in him, and the Mavs are certainly not in position to do that. Even if they were, it's CLEARLY very risky, as he could easily be a total dud at this level. Some might even say it's likely. If I'm Dallas right now, I'm not trying to sink a pick, cap room, a roster spot and developmental time into a novelty like this guy. If I was a bottom feeding team with no star, I might talk myself into it.

I don't think there's any chance Dallas drafts the kid.

**Kammrath** · 10-13-2020, 10:14 AM

(10-13-2020, 09:59 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: it's that he could possibility be a legitimate 7' wing

I think this is absolutely what NBA teams are seeing. BUT it requires him to shoot MUCH BETTER against MUCH BETTER competition. AND it requires him to be at least a passable defender. Those are just giant risks with small percentage chances of happening.

**KillerLeft** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 11:32 AM by KillerLeft.)

(10-13-2020, 10:14 AM)Kammrath Wrote:
(10-13-2020, 09:59 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: it's that he could possibility be a legitimate 7' wing

I think this is absolutely what NBA teams are seeing. BUT it requires him to shoot MUCH BETTER against MUCH BETTER competition. AND it requires him to be at least a passable defender. Those are just giant risks with small percentage chances of happening.

Totally agree, which is why I can't imagine the Mavs are looking at him (as a playoff team) saying "that's what we need." If they weren't willing to put time into Giannis back when they were trying to convince themselves they were good, why would they want to invest it in this kid now that they're actually good?

To me, this seems like a pick for a bad team who has more to gain with a risk like this than they have to lose.

I do think Luka's emergence has a positive impact on the general draft stock of both Pokusevski and Avdija, similar to the way Darko Milicic benefited from Dirk's stardom, because they're both foreign playmakers with size. I think teams might trick themselves into thinking those guys can do what Luka does (lololol). But, I don't agree with the lazy reporter thinking that Dallas wants to end up with every foreign player on the market. Dallas already has their skilled playmaker with size.

Can someone briefly cover the "draft and stash" rules? Can this be done in the first round without impacting your cap, or only in the second?

**Kammrath** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 11:38 AM by Kammrath.)

Another mock:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/p...953246002/

6) Haliburton
8) Hampton
11) Vassell
13) SBey
14) Achiuwa
18) Patrick Williams
21) Maxey
23) Green
30) Bolmaro

Another mock:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2913...-prospects

8) Haliburton
9) SBey
12) Maxey
13) Vassell
15) Hampton
16) Achiuwa
18) Josh Green
27) TBey

(10-13-2020, 11:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Can someone briefly cover the "draft and stash" rules? Can this be done in the first round without impacting your cap, or only in the second?

Can be done with any player as long as they agree, I think.

omahen · 10-13-2020, 11:40 AM

(10-13-2020, 11:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: To me, this seems like a pick for a bad team who has more to gain with a risk like this than they have to lose.

Or a pick for a team like Celtics, who has gazillion picks and not enough roster spots anyway.

**Kammrath** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 12:53 PM by Kammrath.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Uqp_6tJrc

I thought this analysis of Maxey was VERY spot on. He nails his strengths and weaknesses really well. Though at the end of the day he is much higher on him than I am (saying Maxey is a top 10 guy in this draft).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQc6XEpOivA

**Kammrath** · 10-13-2020, 01:55 PM

Another mock:

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/nba-mock-draf...s-wiseman/

7) Haliburton
11) Vassell
13) Maxey
16) Hampton
17) Achiuwa
18) Cole Anthony
19) SBey
23) Green

**KillerLeft** · 10-13-2020, 01:58 PM

What are your thoughts on Cole Anthony, @"Kammrath"? I don't think we've discussed him much, as he's usually projected much higher, yeah?

These wildly different mocks do make it seem like this draft is going to be crazy fun.

**Kammrath** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 02:43 PM by Kammrath.)

(10-13-2020, 01:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What are your thoughts on Cole Anthony, @Kammrath?

Not a fan.

He is small. He is an inefficient scorer. He is unreliable as a creator. He is not an elite defender. I like Maxey better than him, if I am taking a small guard. And frankly I think I like Ty-Shon Alexander better than both (especially as a possible fit next to Luka).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-bG4LDfqgY

(10-13-2020, 01:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: this draft is going to be crazy fun

Yeah, it is so much more wide open than I have ever remembered. I seriously think most of the guys in the draft have like a 20-30 pick range where they could fall. It is likely going to be chaos.....FUN chaos.

ClutchDirk · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 03:11 PM by ClutchDirk.)

4. Aleksej Pokusevski (Olympiacos II, PF, 2001)

Elevator pitch: There aren't many 7-footers outside the NBA who possess Pokusevski's wing-like offensive skills. He's also the draft's youngest prospect who doesn't turn 19 until Christmas time.

Analysis: In 11 HEBA 2 games (Greece's second division) this season, Pokusevski averaged 1.6 threes, 3.1 assists, 1.8 blocks and 1.3 steals in 23.1 minutes. Between his shooting, passing and defensive playmaking, he checks a rare, valued set of boxes with his unique skill level for a 7'0" forward.

Despite his height, he won't be considered a big, given his lack of strength and comfort level around the basket. But Pokusevski has become one of the most tempting prospects in the draft with his advanced perimeter game, open-floor ball-handling and defensive instincts.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2912...y-position

Scott41theMavs · 10-13-2020, 03:11 PM

(10-13-2020, 02:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote:
(10-13-2020, 01:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What are your thoughts on Cole Anthony, @Kammrath?

Not a fan.

He is small. He is an inefficient scorer. He is unreliable as a creator. He is not an elite defender. I like Maxey better than him, if I am taking a small guard. And frankly I think I like Ty-Shon Alexander better than both (especially as a possible fit next to Luka).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-bG4LDfqgY

#1 I think there's a 100% chance of Alexander being available at 31. No need to spend 18 on him.
#2 I think most would see him as a reach at 31, but idgafreak about that if he turns out to be the player you think he is.

**Kammrath** · 10-13-2020, 03:30 PM

(10-13-2020, 03:11 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: #1 I think there's a 100% chance of Alexander being available at 31. No need to spend 18 on him.
#2 I think most would see him as a reach at 31, but idgafreak about that if he turns out to be the player you think he is.

Agreed.

I am NOT suggesting taking him at #18 at all....

AND I am not even saying he is the right take at #31....

My point is that I am NOT high on Maxey and Anthony or any other guards in this draft other than Haliburton and Hampton. I would take Ty-Shon at #31 if my other guys are gone. I like Bolmaro a ton there. I like TBey. I like Woodard. I like Reed.

Scott41theMavs · 10-13-2020, 03:31 PM

(10-13-2020, 08:11 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I have no idea if Poku-man is any good. But, I will repeat something I’ve said before. If we are a top 4 team in the west, we won’t be counting on anything from whoever we draft at 18. If we are counting on such a contribution, we aren’t a top 4 team in the west.

I often read that if we don’t get this off-season right, we risk losing Luka. Actually we don’t risk anything until 2024 or 2025 when Luka is in the position Giannis is in now coming off his second contract. To me, high upside should be the order of the day, not what a player can do in the 20/21 season.

"If we are a top 4 team in the west, we won't be counting on anything from whoever we draft at 18. If we are counting on such a contribution, we aren't a top 4 team in the west."

Dan, I value your contributions here at lot, but this simply isn't true. The Mavs are a top 4 team in the west because Luka. It's not rocket science. I have said many times that the Mavs don't need to contend next year; they need to improve. Luka lifts all boats, probably quite a bit more than Dirk did, but this is a roster with many holes, most egregiously in the weak starting lineup. And your reasoning about a rookie contributing is just hide-bound dogma if Rick will play the guy.

As for keeping Luka happy, look at the history on Gordon Hayward. It does happen. Moreover, 1) this is the new age of NBA player movement in which the top superstars far more efficaciously dictate where they're going to play, even when under contract, far more than in years past; 2) Luka is unique among players of his age in terms of contribution and impact and so should definitely be viewed in those above terms; 3) he has an agent whom we have supposedly mended fences with, but look at the gross negativity of the past dealings with Nash and Rondo. I think your '24-'25 comment is once again overly-dogmatic and extremely naive.

**Kammrath** · 10-13-2020, 03:36 PM

(10-13-2020, 03:31 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: If we are a top 4 team in the west, we won't be counting on anything from whoever we draft at 18. If we are counting on such a contribution, we aren't a top 4 team in the west.

Dan, I value your contributions here at lot, but this simply isn't true.

The Mavs cannot build their offseason with the EXPECTATION that the #18 pick will be a rotation guy.

BUT they sure as hell better draft trying to FIND a rotation guy at #18. Because if you do, then you speed up your contender timeline a LOT.

**KillerLeft** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 05:00 PM by KillerLeft.)

(10-13-2020, 03:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: The Mavs cannot build their offseason with the EXPECTATION that the #18 pick will be a rotation guy.

BUT they sure as hell better draft trying to FIND a rotation guy at #18. Because if you do, then you speed up your contender timeline a LOT.

I agree with this.

I think Dan's point was that if the team is depending on #18 to make them a top 4 team, then they are very likely not a top 4 team, which I completely buy. Kamm has restated it well here.

I also agree that if they see a sure-fire rotation player, whether right away or just a year or two down the line, who is getable with #18, they should take him.

...unless they have a chance to get a difference maker by trading the pick as part of a bigger package. Mind you, I'm not advocating for them to trade the pick to keep from signing that guaranteed money (which they have done before and might do again) and I'm not advocating for them to trade the pick for a short term, back of the rotation guy. I'm talking about a guy who really gets us excited. If they can do that, I think they should do it. If not, I think they draft the best player they can, and maybe even try to move up to get someone they really like. I do NOT want them to punt on the draft just because they don't value the opportunity.

Scott41theMavs · 10-13-2020, 05:00 PM

(10-13-2020, 03:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(10-13-2020, 03:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: The Mavs cannot build their offseason with the EXPECTATION that the #18 pick will be a rotation guy.

BUT they sure as hell better draft trying to FIND a rotation guy at #18. Because if you do, then you speed up your contender timeline a LOT.

I agree with this.

I think Dan's point was if the team is depending on #18 to make them a top 4 team, then they are very likely not a top 4 team, which I completely buy. Kamm has restated it well here.

I also agree that if they see a sure-fire rotation player, whether right away or just a year or two down the line, who is getable with #18, they should take him.

Unless they get a difference maker by trading the pick as part of a bigger package. Mind you, I'm not advocating for them to trade the pick to keep from signing that guaranteed money (which they have done before and might do again) and I'm not advocating for them to trade the pick for a short term, back of the rotation guy. I'm talking about a guy who really gets us excited. If they can do that, I think they should do it. If not, I think they draft the best player they can, and maybe even try to move up to get someone they really like. I do NOT want them to punt on the draft just because they don't value the opportunity.

I don't disagree with much of this at all. I think it comes down to, 1) they have to trust their scouting ability, and 2) their scouting ability has to be worthy of that trust.

Excuse me a second, I'm having a momentary bout of Pop/Riley envy right now.

DanSchwartzgan · 10-13-2020, 08:54 PM

(10-13-2020, 03:31 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: And your reasoning about a rookie contributing is just hide-bound dogma.

As for keeping Luka happy, look at the history on Gordon Hayward.

I think your '24-'25 comment is once again overly-dogmatic and extremely naive.

Scott your adjectives crack me up sometimes. Hayward played seven years with Utah. Luka here for seven years takes us to...the end of the 24/25 season.

This is the silly season where draft picks are wildly overvalued. The 18th pick is a lottery ticket...nothing more. We have the 15th pick in what was considered a much better draft on our bench and we can’t wait to get rid of him. But, the 18th pick in this draft is going to be a baller...I just know it. C’mon Man.

I hope you are right and I hope a significant first year contributor falls in our laps. I just don’t see it.

Login
Username/Email:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me