BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering

[hakeemfaan]

@"audiosway". The issue is not that Brunson now might be considered an overpay. The issue is a series of bad decisions starting with the previous mgmt not picking up the option to the current mgmt not evaluating a player they saw everyday to not give him a smaller deal earlier that he might have accepted.  That is what most are upset about.  

You cannot lose your 2nd best shot creator, one who improved tremendously from the last playoffs to this year, and try to just focus on the defensive side. Was JeT a great 2 way player? We would not have a title without him. What great 2 way player do you have confidence that this franchise will correctly evaluate and get?  Even if they get and develop one that player will also most probably walk away. 

You say this is a good decision. This is the start of Luka looking at the rest of the West and realizing he is on a team going nowhere and working for an incompetent management. He will force a trade sooner than later now.

Little did I know that the Mavs would actually end up going to the finals a couple of years later, but instead of Luka asking for a trade, we'd go and trade him for a bag of peanuts. What a cluster fk of an organization. 

Later on in the thread, I also said that if 5 years/$125mill is what is needed now, the Mavs should not think twice and do it, because it would still be a bargain contract. This was with me not knowing that JB would take such a massive step forward. Yet it was obvious to see his skill and realize that $25m would still be a bargain for him, and would be an easily tradeable contract.

I did get the Knicks part wrong. I thought that this would be their major move, not knowing they'd still find a way to get KAT and Anunoby.

[FireNicoHarrison]

I don't remember a franchise that lose two floor general superstars in 20 months for a package like Street clothes+ a role player+ 1 FRP.

That's probably the worst turn around ever.

Thank you Mark Cuban.
Thank you Nico Harrison.

Please Masai, clean the house... Finley is still here.

[BoredAssistant]

Don't know if this persuades anyone but on a recent podcast w/Skin, Cuban said Finley tried to stop the trade.

[DallasMaverick]

I don't remember a franchise that lose two floor general superstars in 20 months for a package like Street clothes+ a role player+ 1 FRP.

That's probably the worst turn around ever.

Thank you Mark Cuban.
Thank you Nico Harrison.

Please Masai, clean the house... Finley is still here.

Guilt by association.

[mvossman]

I remember making these arguments 4 or 5 years ago. His improvement every year has been fun to watch. The combine can't measure intangibles. Something to keep in mind as we talk about the prospects in the draft and remember that these guys aren't finished products at 19-20-21 years old, or even 25 as shown above. It takes some projection. Development. Opportunity.

It would be an incredible sports story if Brunson can lead NY to its first championship in 53 years.

It was interesting going back and reading those comments.  I actually responded to this very comment pointing out that Brunson may be on a Lowry trajectory offensively, but he will never be Lowry defensively.  I think that argument still holds true, but he turned out to be an even better offensive player (something I never would have guessed).  Kind of crazy that many folks on this board questioned giving him the max extension (roughly MLE money) after his third year when he was in his mid 20s.  Player development is a strange beast.

[cow]

It was interesting going back and reading those comments.  I actually responded to this very comment pointing out that Brunson may be on a Lowry trajectory offensively, but he will never be Lowry defensively.  I think that argument still holds true, but he turned out to be an even better offensive player (something I never would have guessed).  Kind of crazy that many folks on this board questioned giving him the max extension (roughly MLE money) after his third year when he was in his mid 20s.  Player development is a strange beast.

I always bet the under on JB and he's proven me wrong time and time again.  I still don't think he was a great pairing with Luka and of course he wouldn't be what he is today without the split, but he's probably FAR exceeded everyone's expectations but his own.  I'm still salty about New York hiring his dad in the ultimate legal tampering move, but it's not like the MBT didn't trip on their dicks ever step of the way in how they handled JB.  

I'd still like for him to lose in this finals, if nothing else because I REALLY hate KAT and being sports petty is fun.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Don't know if this persuades anyone but on a recent podcast w/Skin, Cuban said Finley tried to stop the trade.

We will know the truth very soon...

[Chicagojk]

What about the Josh Green pick dude

https://x.com/haralabob/status/2062585915156091243?s=46

https://x.com/haralabob/status/2062590136789950656?s=46

It should go back to Cuban.  Entering the draft day without a clear decision maker, having no draft board supposedly and even taking Bob’s voice as final is in itself a fireable offense imo.

We can all argue if we Donnie fave Jalen a bad contract from the start.  There is merit in that.  I just can’t blame him.  That contract should have ended with a great deal for the Mavs.  They dropped the bag because they don’t know talent.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

What about the Josh Green pick dude

https://x.com/haralabob/status/2062585915156091243?s=46

https://x.com/haralabob/status/2062590136789950656?s=46

It should go back to Cuban.  Entering the draft day without a clear decision maker, having no draft board supposedly and even taking Bob’s voice as final is in itself a fireable offense imo.

We can all argue if we Donnie fave Jalen a bad contract from the start.  There is merit in that.  I just can’t blame him.  That contract should have ended with a great deal for the Mavs.  They dropped the bag because they don’t know talent.

With all due respect, NOBODY saw JB developing into the killer he's become, even the Knicks. They knew he had talent, but not this. They interviewed his college coach Jay Wright prior to the game on Inside the NBA. He even said he thought JB was in the perfect situation in Dallas, playing with Luka. Then he talked to JB and he told him he wants to run his own team. That's why he ultimately left, and the rest is possibly, history in the making.

[windjc]

With all due respect, NOBODY saw JB developing into the killer he's become, even the Knicks. They knew he had talent, but not this. They interviewed his college coach Jay Wright prior to the game on Inside the NBA. He even said he thought JB was in the perfect situation in Dallas, playing with Luka. Then he talked to JB and he told him he wants to run his own team. That's why he ultimately left, and the rest is possibly, history in the making.

Don’t excuse Cuban.  Brunson could have been resigned or extended. By competent management.

[Chicagojk]

With all due respect, NOBODY saw JB developing into the killer he's become, even the Knicks. They knew he had talent, but not this. They interviewed his college coach Jay Wright prior to the game on Inside the NBA. He even said he thought JB was in the perfect situation in Dallas, playing with Luka. Then he talked to JB and he told him he wants to run his own team. That's why he ultimately left, and the rest is possibly, history in the making.

I don't think anyone thought he would turn out how he did.  That is not the point.  We talk about wanting smart, tough, high IQ players all the time.   I am no scout but I knew very early Brunson was going to help the Mavs win important games.  It is just disappointing how bad they were evaluating him early.  It makes sense though that the same group who thought Brunson wasn't it, thought Christian Wood was.  This checks out.   
Brunson had a real tough playoff series the year before.   Mavs mistake was thinking that what he was and not how he would respond and avenge that disappointment.  Anyone who knew Brunson, knew he was not going to let that failure define him.   A 4 year 55 million extension would have been signed no questions asked.   I am sure the lack of Mavs communication also played a part.  Hopefully those days are behind us with the new front office.    

Anyway, Brunson is in a much better spot now.  The King of NYC and playing for a title.   Still though, I am glad all the decision makers who could not see they had a great deal at 4 years 55 million are long gone.

[DallasMaverick]

Just a reminder that 31 expert, professional, seasoned NBA general mangers were wrong about Brunson.

And eventually, so was the 32nd.

It’s really, really hard to be right when projecting what a player will become. Even the very best (and luckiest) front offices will only be right 70% of the time.

Those who claim they just “knew” how good Brunson would be are guilty of revisionist history.

[KillerLeft]

Just a reminder that 31 expert, professional, seasoned NBA general mangers were wrong about Brunson.

And eventually, so was the 32nd.

It’s really, really hard to be right when projecting what a player will become. Even the very best (and luckiest) front offices will only be right 70% of the time.

Those who claim they just “knew” how good Brunson would be are guilty of revisionist history.

Oh, before the draft? Agreed!

There are still Dallas people (fans and team decision makers alike) who claim not to have seen this coming when Brunson left for NY, and THOSE people are idiots, imo. I thought Brunson had shown more than enough over the course of that final season here, even before the Utah series, but after that Utah series in particular his trajectory was fairly undeniable. 

To be fair to the spirit of your point, however, Brunson had to be benched for the majority of a playoff series the year before, if memory serves.

[dirkfansince1998]

Just a reminder that 31 expert, professional, seasoned NBA general mangers were wrong about Brunson.

And eventually, so was the 32nd.

It’s really, really hard to be right when projecting what a player will become. Even the very best (and luckiest) front offices will only be right 70% of the time.

Those who claim they just “knew” how good Brunson would be are guilty of revisionist history.

But that wasn't the situation when the Mavs could have offered him an extension. He was already a proven rotation player on a playoff team. Finishing 4th in the sixth man of the year vote. And in the following season he played even better. Averaged 16/4/5 on a playoff team (to be fair, he struggled in the playoffs). Skim through the thread and you will find posters that thought Brunson would be an allstar based on those performances. You will find posters that would have offered him the max.
The relevant question wasn't his draft position. The relevant question was how much Brunson was worth after the 2021 season (extension) and after the 2022 season (free agency). Plenty of people including the Knicks front office got it right. Mavs didn't.

[dirkfansince1998]

SCORCHED EARTH

---

I am afraid to admit what I am really thinking right now because it would be my last post on this board before I join @"jesusshuttlesworth82" and @"Mak".

Exactly how I remembered it. A calm and well thought out reaction. Hard to tell that I wasn't all that happy with the way things played out...

[cow]

Exactly how I remembered it. A calm and well thought out reaction. Hard to tell that I wasn't all that happy with the way things played out...

While the lion share of the blame is on Mark/Donnie's hands, JB's free agency summer was the first chink in Nico's armor for me.  When Mr. Relationship guy couldn't even get a sit down with Jalen and his team, I started to have my doubts.  Not to say I saw the Luka trade coming (no one did), but that's when the honeymoon period officially ended.  

I didn't even want to give Jalen that 15M extension and now he and KAT going to get a chip while I'm rooting for a Spurs team.  My basketball world is upside down.

[mvossman]

While the lion share of the blame is on Mark/Donnie's hands, JB's free agency summer was the first chink in Nico's armor for me.  When Mr. Relationship guy couldn't even get a sit down with Jalen and his team, I started to have my doubts.  Not to say I saw the Luka trade coming (no one did), but that's when the honeymoon period officially ended.  

I didn't even want to give Jalen that 15M extension and now he and KAT going to get a chip while I'm rooting for a Spurs team.  My basketball world is upside down.

I think it was 100% on Cuban.  Nico was GM in name only.  Cuban brought him in for his rolodex.  In fact with Nico being completely clueless (zero experience in FO) I think Cuban took over even more responsibility.  Cuban has always called the shots and the only question was who was influencing him the most.  Many times it wasn't the GM, whether it was a player (Parsons) a gambler or a consultant (the Linsdey year was the only time this FO looked competent).  I am definitely glad we are done with that mess.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Don’t excuse Cuban.  Brunson could have been resigned or extended. By competent management.

I'm not excusing him one iota. He's the main perpetrator.

[KillerLeft]

The lesson learned from the Brunson fiasco at end of day, for me, is about cohesiveness. 

The organization made the decision at the beginning of that year NOT to offer the extension to Brunson. Most of us knew then how reasonable of a deal that would've been for him. Ultimately, it would've been a huge steal - "team friendly" would've been an understatement. The organization's reasoning at the time, according to both Cuban and Brunson, was to wait and "see what they could do" at the trade deadline before committing. Many of us were on board with that thinking at the time because coming into the season, Brunson had not yet exploded. A promising player, yes, but not obviously a star just yet. The Mavs and their fans were focused on adding a star to play alongside Luka. Brunson has said numerous times that he'd have taken the extension before the season. 

Over the course of that season (a contract year, to be fair), Brunson showed his star potential more and more frequently and made great progress in the area of playing off-ball next to Luka. I can't remember exactly when, but it was during that season at some point that he became a fixture in the starting and closing lineups alongside Luka. This happened before the trade deadline, I believe, and if it wasn't obvious before the season, most of us started to understand what he could be as the trade deadline approached. According to Brunson, he'd have accepted the extension at any point during that first half of the season. Still, most of us were on board with the "wait and see what they could do" at the deadline approach. 

Then, the deadline came and went with no Brunson trade. This is when I personally started to worry. In my opinion at the time, it was a major mistake NOT to get what they could for him at the deadline, even if slightly underwhelmed by the offers, because they hadn't opted to extend him. This opened the team up to the worst case scenario which ended up becoming reality, of course. There were quite a few of us who felt that way at the time, but there was also another camp in favor of doing what was best for THAT team's playoff chances. In other words, they agreed with the concept of avoiding Brunson's extension, shopping him and ultimately not accepting offers for him they deemed less than ideal, value wise, in order to give Luka and the team a chance to make noise in the playoffs. And, to be fair, this series of choices DID result in a very deep playoff run, one that simply wouldn't have happened without Brunson. Even after they lost him to NY, that camp argued that the experience gained by Luka and the young Mavs was worth more than whatever assets the Mavs passed up at the deadline. 

And, to be clear, if Luka was still here today, I'd say that argument would actually hold quite a bit of water. The team DID make significant developmental progress in those playoffs. But, he's not. 

Not long after losing Brunson, in a wave of depressing irony, the Mavs went to the market with an even smaller pile of assets to spend, looking for SOMEONE LIKE BRUSON. They succeeded, in a sense, adding Kyrie Irving. I'm guessing most people here think of Kyrie as a better player than Brunson. I'm not sure I agree, given the way the team was built to play pick and roll basketball and soon after leaned into that identity even more, but that debate will just distract from the cohesion/timeline point I'm trying to make, so let's just focus on the COST of adding Irving. While Kyre's then "damaged goods" reputation and his desire to get to one of the few attractive teams that wanted him at the time resulted in a reasonable trade cost, I wouldn't call it cheap, and the Mavs were already pretty low on young, attractive players and draft capital. They had to trade one of their most core players and an unprotected pick so far into the future they STILL haven't fully "paid off" that purchase. Again, this might not have been the end of the world, if Luka was still here. But, he's not. 

Then, the last crumbs of real draft capital the Mavs had to offer went out the door to add Gafford and Washington, both of whom fit that version of the team like a glove. At the time, I was super worried about this, despite liking both deals in terms of fit with the added players because the "bill" for the team was getting pushed farther and farther into the future. I started to worry about doomsday scenarios wherein the team declined and had no path to fix the roster. The other camp was making arguments for "going all in" or "doing everything you can to maximize each year of Luka's career," etc. I remember thinking Luka wasn't even in his prime yet and arguing for a more patient approach, but, again, to be clear, that team made it to the NBA finals, farther than I expected. They got their asses stomped into the mud by a much better Celtics team, but it was pretty vindicating for camp B, I'd say. I had fairly high hopes that with a few good moves and some much needed maturation on Luka's part, the team could get over the hump and realize their full potential. At that point, their choices had painted them into such a corner they really had no way out but through, anyway, but the team assembled seemed fairly close. 

And then, Luka did not react to the finals loss the way I hoped, and apparently not like the team's decision makers expected, either. He did not go into the desert with Holger like Dirk did all those years ago. He did not work through the off-season to reach the new level of preparation needed to finish the job. Instead, he came into camp more out of shape than ever and suffered several injuries as a result. That team was not going well, and while there's a world in which Luka could've possibly gotten into the swing of things in time for the team to gel before the playoffs, it wasn't a certain thing at all - possibly even a long shot, frankly. Faced with the same "doomsday" worries that plagued me and others here at the time, those in charge of the team overreacted, at best, and possibly even panicked. They traded Luka, and the rest of the story is basically what we've talked about around here for the better part of two years. No need to rehash any of that. 

The point, for me, is the total lack of ability to stick to a plan. IF you're going to let a player of Brunson's caliber out the door for NOTHING and then spend everything else in the war chest to build around Luka, you have to keep Luka. Period. IF there's even a chance you'll ever, ever want to get out of the Luka business, having Brunson on the roster makes all the sense in the world, obviously. Now, the Mavs are in a situation where they have a team built around the unique skills of a player they no longer employ, and while they have lucked into a new exciting talent to build their team around, course correcting to do so will be EXCEEDINGLY difficult for the next several years because of all the draft assets pissed away over the last several. I think that good points both for and against were made about every decision along the timeline above, but in the end none of it matters unless the people steering the ship have a vision and the steadfastness to stick to it. It's not about getting each decision right so much as it's about staying focused on the longterm goals and how each decision affects the next, and the next. 

I hope Uiri and his new front office are able to get on the same page in terms of the best way forward, and I hope it's a patient way. I also hope we, the fans, can find the patience to let them. The next few years are not going to be easy.

[Smitty]

I agree with a lot of the above. I guess I’m in a different camp than you going forward though. I do not see the doom and gloom ahead now that they have Flagg, a potential top-5 guy. The hard part is done. The Mavs have a first round pick, some years multiple, in every year but next, even then it’s possible that they get a Top-2 selection there, with the new lottery rules.

I get that their picks are not likely to be at the top of the draft the next 4 seasons, but when you’re good, they’re not high either. So, let’s be good… yeah? I don’t remember talking about top draft picks so much when Dirk and Co. were winning 50+ games each year. How soon can Flagg be regarded as a Top-10/20 player? Nobody knows the answer for certain, but I’m not going to put a cap on it. This upcoming season? Year 3?

Sure, the new MBT will need to put talented players around Flagg that help make him better. That “fit”. But they have talented players now that we can all assume will be used in future trades to do just that. The single biggest thing to get back on the right track is nail this draft! They do that, and we won’t care that the Mavs are picking ~27th in 2028.


Mavs Future Picks:

'26: FRP (Own), FRP (OKC) | SRP (PHX)
'27: FRP owed to CHA if not Top-2 | SRP (CHI)
'28: FRP (OKC right to Swap)
'29: FRP (LAL) | SRP (HOU)
'30: FRP (SAS right to Swap), FRP (GSW-Top 20 Protected) | SRP (PHI)
'31: FRP (Own)
'32: FRP (Own) | SRP (Own)
'33: FRP (Own) | SRP (Own)


*If the '30 GSW pick doesn't convey, it converts to their '30 SRP

**Maximum tradable FRP’s this summer (4):
2029, 2030 (GSW), 2031, 2033