Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment

[Chicagojk]

I think the Mavs front office is right that one of the advantages of Coop is how flexible he is.  He can play with many different types of players.   So, while many may have different thoughts of what those players should be, Coop gives you that rare flexibility.   I also liked what the front office has said about building the team and talking about even two ways and the guys you bring to camp.   It is all a exhausting process.

In the short term, I think my view building around Cooper focuses on the acquisition of good talent, at good price.   That's it.   My goal until 2029/2030 is just making smart decisions on players, staying flexible with the cap, and improving as a basketball team.  The hope that by 29/30 you are either ready to compete (and pay) or you have a deep, young, cheaper team and have all your draft picks to really boost your chances.   Ideally, even without top picks in 3 or so years you already have a championship level team and do not need to make one of those big trades to make that happen.    Although, for the next few years it is player acquisition process.  I think Mike Schmitz has talked briefly of the type of players/people he wants to attract.

[DallasMaverick]

Maximizing Flagg’s cheap years:

If Cooper were a free agent today, what contract would he earn? Do you anticipate his play during the 2026-2027 season would be worth $40m? $50m?

I don’t have to squint too hard to see a $50m player. So you could say we’re getting a $35m discount this year, and probably at least that amount over the remaining two years of his contract.

How does a good GM deal with this narrow window of opportunity? In the old days, he’d just overpay. But the rules make it much more difficult now.

A couple of observations:

1. Winning now is probably easier than winning later.

2. Since drafted players (on “Flagg’s timeline”) generally don’t help you win now, their value is less.

This doesn’t mean the GM should ignore the future, but I’d argue it tilts the balance towards mature, productive veterans.

All this talk of trading Naji, PJ, Gafford, and Kyrie seems counter to winning now.

We shall see.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Maximizing Flagg’s cheap years:

If Cooper were a free agent today, what contract would he earn? Do you anticipate his play during the 2026-2027 season would be worth $40m? $50m?

I don’t have to squint too hard to see a $50m player. So you could say we’re getting a $35m discount this year, and probably at least that amount over the remaining two years of his contract.

How does a good GM deal with this narrow window of opportunity? In the old days, he’d just overpay. But the rules make it much more difficult now.

A couple of observations:

1. Winning now is probably easier than winning later.

2. Since drafted players (on “Flagg’s timeline”) generally don’t help you win now, their value is less.

This doesn’t mean the GM should ignore the future, but I’d argue it tilts the balance towards mature, productive veterans.

All this talk of trading Naji, PJ, Gafford, and Kyrie seems counter to winning now.

We shall see.

I've been playing around with Anthony Black ideas.  Some revolve around trading #9 for Black (which would kind of fall in line with what you are saying above).  Other ideas revolve around trading Kyrie (and keeping both Black and #9).  That would be more of a longer term timeline move.

Before anyone tells me that Black can't shoot 3's, take a look at his numbers from the corner the last three years and his numbers as a starter (or when he plays 30+ minutes) last year.  I'm actually more concerned about his numbers around the rim than I am his 3 point shot not improving over time.  In some ways, this is Flemings but in a bigger body with proven NBA defense and corner 3 efficiency but 3 years older.  Orlando has a decision to make this summer about paying him.  They may move on from someone else, but they are eventually going to move on from someone.

[mvossman]

Maximizing Flagg’s cheap years:

If Cooper were a free agent today, what contract would he earn? Do you anticipate his play during the 2026-2027 season would be worth $40m? $50m?

I don’t have to squint too hard to see a $50m player. So you could say we’re getting a $35m discount this year, and probably at least that amount over the remaining two years of his contract.

How does a good GM deal with this narrow window of opportunity? In the old days, he’d just overpay. But the rules make it much more difficult now.

A couple of observations:

1. Winning now is probably easier than winning later.

2. Since drafted players (on “Flagg’s timeline”) generally don’t help you win now, their value is less.

This doesn’t mean the GM should ignore the future, but I’d argue it tilts the balance towards mature, productive veterans.

All this talk of trading Naji, PJ, Gafford, and Kyrie seems counter to winning now.

We shall see.

The problem is they don't have near enough talent to win now.  Masai has already made it clear he is looking to build around Flagg and not worry about winning now.  I think your calculations will be more applicable to his second contract, which will still be well under his value as he will be hitting his prime.  That is probably the time frame they have the best chance.  If they are going to spend big its going to be right before he signs that contract.

[dirkfansince1998]

Who was the last player on a rookie contract that lead his team to a championship? Wade, Duncan? I guess Kawhi was finals MVP but he probably wasn't the best player on the team if we look at the entire season/playoff run.
Looking at the Wade-Heat or Duncan-Spurs they were in a much better situation than the current Mavs. Heat with a multi year tanking/rebuilding effort. More talent and assets. Spurs a perennial contender that lucked into Duncan because Robinson suffered a season ending injury. A little bit like the Pacers this year. Just with more lottery luck.

[F Gump]

No, I definitely don't think anything like that . In no way do I think anything is a disaster. I don't think I used "disaster" or "failure" in any of the comments.

1. I think it's hard to imagine a lot of HC interviews in this length of time. It's a month away and Sweeny is still in the playoffs. From what I've read, Masai likes to interview a lot people. That certainly doesn't mean he can't just hire someone he likes and call it a day. It seems like a tall order to me but it's entirely possible. Maybe Sweeny is a non-factor (or is eliminated quickly in the playoffs).

2. They won't be handicapped, but the vision of the team will not be able to take in the HCs philosophy if he's not hired by then. The HC and the assistants are a big part of the team's culture. Maybe that's not a big deal at all, but if I were drafting around Flagg I would want to know that part of the math. Maybe I'm over-thinking that part. I'm not saying its' "vital" but I think it's relevant.

3. The peculiar part for me is the cumulative nature all these things at once. This draft is really not just a clean slate for Masai. I think Flagg (and how he will be used) is really a critical part of this draft and should color how he sees the future of this team. Kidd spent a lot of last year using Flagg a certain way - in a way other coaches would not. Without a HC now, it seems odd to me to draft around Flagg with very different parameters about his position. And Flagg is not just any player. But I don't think in any way this is a disaster. It simply means Masai has to make some assumptions in the draft about how (and where) Flagg plays his position. It's not necessary to do that - I get it - you take the best player and maybe that's that. I just think it helps shape your choices.

But really, I think you just read too much drama into my post. I should have made it more clear.

 
" But really, I think you just read too much drama into my post. I should have made it more clear." -- Got it. Thanks for the reply. 

I don't think they are nearly as handicapped or limited as you envision. 

Yes, they have a lot to do, but that's just how it is. Nothing odd about it. New POBO to get integrated, new GM to get integrated, coaching change, and draft, it's a lot of overlapping work. BUT no doubt they are already very busy on getting those things done. There's no need to wait for Sweeney to be able to do the various chores, if that's who they want. And if they don't want Sweeney, they won't have to wait either.

"... the vision of the team will not be able to take in the HCs philosophy if he's not hired by [the draft] " and "It simply means Masai has to make some assumptions in the draft about how (and where) Flagg plays his position." --- Sorry, but that really makes no sense to me. There's not really a scenario where they won't have their coach by the draft, or have to draft without whatever input they feel they need from him. No assumptions needed. And hiring him may happen fairly soon.

[F Gump]

I've been playing around with Anthony Black ideas.  Some revolve around trading #9 for Black (which would kind of fall in line with what you are saying above).  Other ideas revolve around trading Kyrie (and keeping both Black and #9).  That would be more of a longer term timeline move.

Before anyone tells me that Black can't shoot 3's, take a look at his numbers from the corner the last three years and his numbers as a starter (or when he plays 30+ minutes) last year.  I'm actually more concerned about his numbers around the rim than I am his 3 point shot not improving over time.  In some ways, this is Flemings but in a bigger body with proven NBA defense and corner 3 efficiency but 3 years older.  Orlando has a decision to make this summer about paying him.  They may move on from someone else, but they are eventually going to move on from someone.

I have kept an eye on Black over the years, because I watched him play in HS. 

I would NOT trade for him (assuming the cost is Kyrie, or a high value player or pick). And I don't think they would trade him cheap.

My issue is that he is more or less the very same player he was when he came into the league. As a 6-7 PG who could handle the ball, he looked like he could become a defensive nightmare to face, and if he could develop a shot, he would be quite a PG to have. 

But his defense and shot haven't progressed much. 

But I'm also leery of his contract. ORL got the bargain-price years. To get him and keep him, you would have to pay him the HUGE money. I think his next deal is likely to be pricey and an overpay.I don't want to be put in that trap, of having to pay huge money and blow up the payroll, for a player that isn't special. And once you trade for him, you've forced yourself to pay.

[meistermatze]

So.... is Dylan Harper the only serious thread to overtake Coop some day out of this draft class? Based on his play in the postseason, I say yes. He has all the tools, is a super big guard and plays amazing defense. Not saying hit is going to overtake Cooper but I could see both of them becoming absolute superstars in 2-3 years, seriously.

Knueppel and Edgecombe are nice, but nothing more than very good starters to my eyes.

[cow]

So.... is Dylan Harper the only serious thread to overtake Coop some day out of this draft class? Based on his play in the postseason, I say yes. He has all the tools, is a super big guard and plays amazing defense. Not saying hit is going to overtake Cooper but I could see both of them becoming absolute superstars in 2-3 years, seriously.

Knueppel and Edgecombe are nice, but nothing more than very good starters to my eyes.

I love, love, love Harper but I think he'll always play second or third fiddle to Wemby/Castle, at least in the short term.  I can't believe how we'll he's played in the post season.

[myconsumerclub]

Lively is the biggest question mark going into the offseason because I think Kyrie is a stud and he returns as good as he ever was.

Seen a mock were we took the Italian Wemby at 30 and I would be okay with that move. That gives us options if Derek gets hurt again and odds are that could happen.

Cooper Buries? Kyrie Lively/ Suigo as a two headed center we go young and big and in that way we may win but then we need a PF or SF depending on our options because Cooper is flexible to fit in at either position and who knows what we end up with.

At SF you can play Naji and or PJ and that is a nice option I like our guys there with Cooper at PF or you can go big at PF and resign Bagley for his versatility and shooting ability from the 3 and I would expect him to play there next to Lively and Cooper to help bang against bigs and help keep Lively from banging inside too much and thus help him stay healthier.

Then with that approach you move Cooper to SF and you can look at adding the best remaining 3 & D at 48.

With that kind of frontcourt size inside you can now afford to trade Gafford and PJ. I am holding out hope that Naji will improve his game from the 3. He can play PG a lot as well and injuries could hinder us and he proved he can create with the ball when given the chance.

The first pick: Burries is a safe enough pick but any guard with size that can play the 2 next to Kyrie and also play PG later on is a good choice.

30th Pick: Again I said I saw a mock with Luigi Suigo but any capable center is an option if one falls to 30. Some say Mara will go before us to ATL. If he is there at 9 it is hard not to take him. We cannot assume that Lively comes back and can now stay healthy and play well. I am all for giving him a shot but I want a strong option to replace him if he is not going to be the guy we need him to be.

48 at that point you can add anything as long as it is a solid player using BPA philosophy but a 3&D wing is an area of need however we may find one of those in free agency.

That gives us a lineup of

Kyrie / Ryan /
Max / Burries? / Klay
Cooper / Naji / Middleton or Martin
Bagley / PJ / Gafford
Lively / Suigo? / Cisse

Two ways: John and Tyler and one we can find to sign.

Obviously we could see a lot of guys getting traded. Klay, PJ, Naji, & Gafford. I got a strong feeling we could see some trades happen. I would add in Martin and AJ to that list but I doubt anyone takes them off our hands and we may have to just eat AJ's deal and stretch AJ.

Our 2 ways could explode onto the scene if injuries hamper the team as they did last year and open the door for them to get more minutes and play a lot. I think both are excellent fits and they could earn a place if someone slips up.

The starting lineup was weak last year and now we have a chance with better starting talent. I could see whoever we pick with out first pick working his way into the starting lineup soon.

If we get Lively back healthy we are 3 deep in great position with strong starting talent with him next to Cooper and Kyrie directing the flow so now if we find a nice pick that can start right away and send Max to the bench then we are going to be better instantly and able to win some games this year. The we need to experiment to see who helps out more at SF and PF so we can use them and slot Cooper where he is able to best fit in. Or we can say screw it Cooper is a PF lets make a trade to find a SF.

[mvossman]

Kyrie / Ryan /
Max / Burries? / Klay
Cooper / Naji / Middleton or Martin
Bagley / PJ / Gafford
Lively / Suigo? / Cisse

You have got to stop plugging Bagley into the starting lineup as a starting power forward.  He is a third string center.  This team is not trying to lose next season.

[myconsumerclub]

Bagley was hitting 50% of his 3 pointers who else on the team did that. If he plays as a 3 and D power forward in position less basketball who cares as long as he is out performing all the other options for hitting a 3 pointer. He also scored a lot of points when he was gifted playing time and was effective on the boards and defended nicely so I go by the eye test and I say he is a good option based on what he did in games. He is a much better option at PF than Naji is at SF or PJ. IMHO you make the team better by playing Cooper at SF and using Bagley at PF plus now you get a bit more usable size across the frontline. PJ is not a great PF. Bagley looked better last season to me. Our SF position sucks when you play any of the options other than Cooper so who can we play there next to Cooper at PF?

I can see us trading Klay Gafford PJ and maybe others as well and maybe that is how we get someone to take Martin off our hands.

[KillerLeft]

Bagley was hitting 50% of his 3 pointers who else on the team did that. If he plays as a 3 and D power forward in position less basketball who cares as long as he is out performing all the other options for hitting a 3 pointer. He also scored a lot of points when he was gifted playing time and was effective on the boards and defended nicely so I go by the eye test and I say he is a good option based on what he did in games. He is a much better option at PF than Naji is at SF or PJ. IMHO you make the team better by playing Cooper at SF and using Bagley at PF plus now you get a bit more usable size across the frontline. PJ is not a great PF. Bagley looked better last season to me. Our SF position sucks when you play any of the options other than Cooper so who can we play there next to Cooper at PF?

I can see us trading Klay Gafford PJ and maybe others as well and maybe that is how we get someone to take Martin off our hands.

I’ll be pretty surprised if Bagley is even on the team.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Me too.

[mvossman]

Bagley was hitting 50% of his 3 pointers who else on the team did that. If he plays as a 3 and D power forward in position less basketball who cares as long as he is out performing all the other options for hitting a 3 pointer. He also scored a lot of points when he was gifted playing time and was effective on the boards and defended nicely so I go by the eye test and I say he is a good option based on what he did in games. He is a much better option at PF than Naji is at SF or PJ. IMHO you make the team better by playing Cooper at SF and using Bagley at PF plus now you get a bit more usable size across the frontline. PJ is not a great PF. Bagley looked better last season to me. Our SF position sucks when you play any of the options other than Cooper so who can we play there next to Cooper at PF?

I can see us trading Klay Gafford PJ and maybe others as well and maybe that is how we get someone to take Martin off our hands.

It does not matter what Bagley 3 point percentage is because he takes one per game.  He put up some decent offensive numbers in a small sample during garbage minutes on a tanking team.  He has always been a terrible defender and his on court impact metrics says that has not changed (he had the second worse net rating and defensive rating on the team).  Some folks made this same mistake with Williams after last season.  He had a nice run in a small sample shooting 40% from 3.  He gets more meaningful minutes and a full season and he shoots 23% from 3.  They both are decent end of the bench options.  Neither belong anywhere near a starting lineup.

Right now your starting forwards are Flagg and PJ. They both need to shoot better for that to work long term. Most likely we will see how that works on a functioning roster, at least until the TDL.

[cow]

I’ll be pretty surprised if Bagley is even on the team.

By our choice or his?

[myconsumerclub]

Bagley could be ready to be the guy now sometimes it just takes longer for big's to turn on the switch. He is a failure as a 5 maybe his real talent is as a 4?

Look at KAT in the finals he was labeled as garbage on defense but he took advantage of his opportunity and won a ring.

If Cooper can play at the 3 and 4 we have flexibility to make a move to put someone at either position next to Cooper.

If Bagley earns that opportunity then he is going to have to perform on defense better. His rebounding is strong and he can certainly be counted on to play better on D against other smaller PF's.

Maybe his defensive shortfall was due to his playing centers who had size advantages against him and if that is the case why would we sign him to play center?

I do not want him as a center unless we need him when an injury is forcing us to play him a center.

I want to see what he can do as a PF. He has the shooting touch and rebounds very well so next to Lively he could be a plus on the teams rebounding because Lively is a little weak there.

Now if we can snag a guy like any of the Michigan bigs or any of the other bigs at PF/C in the draft because we dropped down with say OKC to get an extra pick at 17 then we may not even need to sign Bagley.

However, if we draft a bunch of guards and wings then that resigning Bagley idea becomes a lot more important and so it all falls to what we do in the draft.

Till I see what we have to work with after the draft we need to be open to any possibility because we do not know what we will be stuck with.

Trades can happen and PJ and Naji who I like could be gone along with older vets with an injury history like Klay and Gafford. That would create some shakeup on the team and I can see Masai wanting to go with a youth movement.

All we know now is we have Cooper Kyrie and maybe Lively to build around and if someone wants to give us a no brainer offer for Lively maybe he is easy to replace in the draft and we can move him for a pick to find a replacement.

All the problems we face at center are due to his being injury prone. If he was healthy enough then he could be trusted to stay healthy and then I am sure we all would not want to sign guys like Bagley for insurance at the 5 but the 4 is a different position. However this team needs insurance for worst case scenarios.

Our fall from grace one year out of the finals happened because of our idiot GM trading Luka. It happened and we had to come to terms and deal with it but we need to add a lot of pieces to get back to what we need to contend again.

Pieces that fit next to Luka and took us far were surprises if you ask me. I did not think we had what it takes to win against Boston because they had been there and knew the mindset it took to win at that level and just like SAN this year showed us that experience and veteran leadership is needed to avoid the choking that youngsters are more prone to engage in.

Hence why I want Kyrie here to stay.

PJ is not fitting as well with Cooper so he has to be moved unless you want to gamble on another year of trying to make it work.

Naji was a better fit with his playing the main ball handler but we have Kyrie back now and it appears from all the discussion that we will go with a PG or SG/PG type using the 9th pick. I still like the idea of keeping Naji because he is a good defensive fit against a lot of players and maybe next to Kyrie he is a better fit in his capacity to take a pass inside and do well at the rim.

That means if we get a nice draft pic and can find a decent player to play next to Kyrie and Cooper plus Lively then who knows what we can do at 30 to find a guy that can be our insurance center.

If we make a trade and move up then that would help us to get a guy that can play center and PF and in that situation we could play cooper at the 3 and do well. I think we still need more insurance for Gafford as well because he did not look all that great last year after he came back and so maybe we do need Bagley in this situation as a backup big. Cisse may be worth a look as well he played good against a lot of guys last year.

I also hope we go after some undrafted bigs too because I can see a few that might go undrafted that could be useful enough to get signed at least to a 2 way and who knows what a trade may bring but in our weakened situation at center we need to be open to all ideas.

The mavs may use the 30th pic on a SF and figure to use Cooper at PF and that works also if that SF can hit 3's and play at the next level well enough straight out of college.

We are clutching at straws to keep from drowning because this draft is one we must make work for us. We do not have a lot more first round pics in the years to come thanks to he whose name should never be uttered ever again.

You saw a side to Bagley last year where he performed well when given the chance and if he has enough game as a PF you let him try his game there, but not at center, you play him only at PF.

I would not want to use him at the 5 unless injuries forced us to use him at the 5 and I still want to add a real 5 in the draft as well for Lively insurance purposes.

If a player sucks on defense against guys that are bigger than you then that is more likely because they are all bigger guys than you are and that should explain his bad defensive numbers.

You factor that situation into your evaluations and ask yourself what if we used him at a position where he would be bigger than most of the guys he matches up with at that position?

Is he able to match up that way? Yes he can be a PF and his shooting proves it plus he rebounds strongly for a PF. Maybe his defense as a PF is superb. Maybe he only sucks on defense when he is guarding guys that tower over him.

When a situation happens were guys are played out of their true position and the guy has a pedigree like being picked ahead of Luka in the draft out of Duke then you do not throw the baby out with the bathwater you rethink things and you factor in his value based on the situation and you see how that talent can be recycled at another position and you go in that direction with them.

The only bad thing with doing this is it takes Cooper and makes him a SF but if we cannot find a SF to play SF that is as strong at SF as Bagley is at PF then you got to play your best 5 and if he is not a starting 5 you can suffer with him at the 5 till you finally find a good SF so you can use Cooper as a starting 4. That way when we do get a decent SF you move Bagley to the bench and have a decent cheap backup 4 for Cooper.

Now you can trade off PJ to get something decent from OKC or some other team.

[myconsumerclub]

Bagley could be ready to be the guy now sometimes it just takes longer for big's to turn on the switch. He is a failure as a 5 maybe his real talent is as a 4?

Look at KAT in the finals he was labeled as garbage on defense but he took advantage of his opportunity and won a ring.

If Cooper can play at the 3 and 4 we have flexibility to make a move to put someone at either position next to Cooper.

If Bagley earns that opportunity then he is going to have to perform on defense better. His rebounding is strong and he can certainly be counted on to play better on D against other smaller PF's.

Maybe his past defensive shortfall was due to his playing centers who had size advantages against him because teams played him in bad matchups and if that is the case why would we sign him to play center?

I do not want him as a center unless we need him when an injury is forcing us to play him at center.

I want to see what he can do as a PF.

He has the shooting touch and rebounds very well so next to Lively he could be a plus on the teams rebounding because Lively is a little weak there.

Now if we can snag a guy like any of the Michigan bigs, or any of the other bigs at PF/C in the draft because we dropped down with say OKC to get an extra pick at 17 then maybe we do not even need to sign Bagley.

However, if we draft a bunch of guards and wings then that resigning Bagley idea becomes a lot more important and so it all falls to what we do in the draft.

Till I see what we have to work with after the draft we need to be open to any possibility because we do not know what we will be stuck with.

Trades can happen and PJ and Naji who I like could be gone along with older vets with an injury history like Klay and Gafford. That would create some shakeup on the team and I can see Masai wanting to go with a youth movement.

All we know now is we have Cooper Kyrie and maybe Lively to build around and if someone wants to give us a no brainer offer for Lively maybe he is easy to replace in the draft and we can move him for a pick to find a replacement.

All the problems we face at center are due to his being injury prone. If he was healthy enough then he could be trusted to stay healthy and then I am sure we all would not want to sign guys like Bagley for insurance at the 5 but the 4 is a different position. Now this team needs insurance for worst case scenarios.

Our fall from grace one year out of the finals happened because of our idiot GM traded Luka. It happened and we had to come to terms and deal with it but we need to add a lot of pieces to get back to what we need to contend again.

Pieces that fit next to Luka and took us far in the past were surprises, if you ask me because Luka made guys play better getting them open shots. I did not think we had what it takes to win against Boston because they had been there and knew the mindset it took to win at that level and just like SAN showed us this year lack of experience and veteran leadership is never a good thing to avoid the choking that youngsters are more prone to engage in.

Hence why I want Kyrie here to stay.

PJ is not fitting as well with Cooper so he has to be moved unless you want to gamble on another year of trying to make it work. Maybe Kyrie is able to get him those shots that Luka found for him?

Naji was a better fit with his playing the main ball handler a lot of games but we have Kyrie back now and it appears from all the discussion that we will go with a PG or SG/PG type using the 9th pick.

I still like the idea of keeping Naji because he is a good defensive fit against a lot of players and maybe next to Kyrie he is a better fit in his capacity to take a pass inside and do well at the rim.

That means if we get a nice draft pic and can find a decent player to play next to Kyrie and Cooper plus Lively then who knows what we can do at 30 to find a guy that can be our insurance center.

If we make a trade and move up from 30 then that would help us to get a guy that can play center and PF and in that situation we could play cooper at the 3 and do well.

I think we still need more insurance for Gafford as well because he did not look all that great last year after he came back and so maybe we do need Bagley in this situation as a backup big. Cisse may be worth a look as well he played good against a lot of guys last year.

I also hope we go after some undrafted bigs too because I can see a few that might go undrafted that could be useful enough to get signed at least to a 2 way and who knows what a trade may bring but in our weakened situation at center we need to be open to all ideas.

The mavs may use the 30th pic on a SF and figure to use Cooper at PF and that works also if that SF can hit 3's and play at the next level well enough straight out of college. Lively is who you are betting on at that point and that could be a big mistake. Maybe then we find a way to move up from 48 and snag an okay center.

We are clutching at straws to keep from drowning because this draft is one that we must make work for us. We do not have a lot more first round pics in the years to come thanks to he whose name should never be uttered ever again.

You saw a side to Bagley last year where he performed well when given the chance and if he has enough game as a PF you let him try his game there, but not at center, you play him only at PF.

I would not want to use him at the 5 unless injuries forced us to use him at the 5 and I still want to add a real 5 in the draft as well for Lively insurance purposes.

If a player sucks on defense against guys that are bigger than you then that is more likely because they are all bigger guys than you are and that should explain his bad defensive numbers in the past because it appears he was played as a center.

You factor that situation into your evaluations and ask yourself what if we used him at a position where he would be bigger than most of the guys he matches up with, at that position?

Is he able to match up that way?

Yes he can be a PF and his shooting proves it plus he rebounds strongly for a PF.

Maybe his defense as a PF is superb.

Maybe he only sucks on defense when he is guarding guys that tower over him.

When a situation happens were guys are played out of their true position and the guy has a pedigree like being picked ahead of Luka in the draft out of Duke then you do not throw the baby out with the bathwater you rethink things and you factor in his value based on the situation and you see how that talent can be recycled at another position and you go in that direction with the guy.

The only bad thing with doing this is it takes Cooper and makes him a SF but if we cannot find a SF to play SF that is as strong at SF as Bagley is at PF then you got to play your best 5. If Bagley works he stays if not you can suffer with him at the 4 till you finally find a good SF so you can use Cooper as a starting 4.

That way when we do get a decent SF you move Bagley to the bench and have a decent cheap backup 4 for Cooper.

Now you can trade off PJ and get something decent from OKC or some other team.

[myconsumerclub]

RE Lively. I do not want to trade him I want to give him a shot to stay healthy now but I would not want to pick all guards and wings in this draft with the possibility of a worst case scenario living on in our nightmares because if Lively again gets injured or has issues that limits his minutes this team would be relying on guys we know cannot carry that weight. Gafford if he is still hear is a great 2nd team center, Bagley as noted is a 4 not a 5 he is 6'10 maybe 6'9 and even smaller than we think he is.

We should take that Italian Wemby Luigi Suigo or some other big with size if he is there at 30 and not back in school or whatever. Now Lively can play knowing we have a replacement for him if he is going to be an injury prone player.

I did see a video on youtube the other day should have saved it. They were trying to say Wemby may fear the game of Jamarion Sharp. found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLV7gaTJ9vA&pp=ygUVSmFtYXJpb24gU2hhcnAgd2VtYnlz

[myconsumerclub]

also these as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2978SiVNcKM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVYedk1UCsk