Game 31: Dallas Mavericks (11-19) vs. Denver Nuggets (21-7) | 7:00pm CST

[KillerLeft]

He is dropping 30 and 40 at 18/19. And you are questioning if he can average 30? Some of you are blind…

Still doing your best to make friends, I see. Calling one of the smartest people here "blind" after an effusively gushing Flagg post because it wasn't quite as gushing as you wanted it to be is a bold friend-making strategy. I can't wait to see if it pays off.

[Winter]

I'm curious how we'd compare Luka as an 18 year old (the year before his rookie NBA season) to Flagg as an 18 year old.  

Year older Luka put up some pretty impressive numbers as a rookie at 21.2/7.8/6.0.  He put up 16.5 shots a game and was .427 from the field and .327 from three.  

December Flagg (10 games) is 24.1/6.2/4.5.  He has put up 16.9 shots a game and is .527 from the field and .308 from three.

I'd say it is pretty obvious Flagg is the better defender.  I'd probably buy the argument that Luka's offensive ceiling is higher (easy to do since Luka's ceiling is a proven concept).  I don't envision Flagg as a 30 point scorer, but watching those FOUR made three's made me question that.  He gets shots in the paint at will with zero spacing.  Add some spacing and give him a slightly above league average three point percentage and who knows where this thing goes.

Comparing the two is a little strange - but I agree with the above.

What makes it strange is that Flagg really hasn't fully bought the idea that's he's the big dog. I'm guessing he feels he doesn't deserve it yet. He's really all about the team. He's not naturally the initiator of the offense the way Luka is. Luka massaged every offensive play, and was almost a savant on offense. He wasn't a complete floor general at first, but he wanted the ball. Flagg makes up for his lack of touches on offense by being a stud on defense. 

I suspect Flagg's scoring will creep northward as his 3-point shooting improves. At that point his impact on the team becomes more on par with Luka - it just not singularly slanted toward the offense. He needs better perimeter players and more motion surrounding him on offense, but he's going be the team's floor general before the year is up. Building this team around him will be fun.

[mvossman]

He is dropping 30 and 40 at 18/19. And you are questioning if he can average 30? Some of you are blind…

Are you capable of making a post without trashing other posters?

[windjc]

Are you capable of making a post without trashing other posters?

There is still a massive Luka hangover on this board. It’s like a mythological cloud hanging over CF analysis. Go over to Reddit and see the difference.  I’m just asking people to wipe their tears away and look in front of them. That’s all.

[Winter]

There is still a massive Luka hangover on this board. It’s like a mythological cloud hanging over CF analysis. Go over to Reddit and see the difference.  I’m just asking people to wipe their tears away and look in front of them. That’s all.

Since you just say the same thing over and over, there's no good reason not to just put you on ignore. From here on out, I'll just imagine a spot where you praise Flagg, the content will be blocked out, and I can just move to the next post.

[KillerLeft]

Comparing the two is a little strange - but I agree with the above.

What makes it strange is that Flagg really hasn't fully bought the idea that's he's the big dog. He's really all about the team. He's not naturally the initiator of the offense the way Luka is. Luka massaged every offensive play. Flagg makes up for his lack of touches on offense by being a stud on defense. 

I suspect Flagg's scoring will creep northward as his 3-point shooting improves. At that point his impact on the team becomes more on par with Luka - it just not singularly slanted toward the offense. He needs better perimeter players and more motion surrounding him on offense, but he's going be the team's floor general before the year is up. Building this team around him will be fun.

I agree with all of this.

However, I'd like to offer a different wrinkle. While I agree completely that when (not if) Flagg becomes a lethal shooter it will open up a ton of options for him, I'm not sure that's the development I'd be holding my breath for if I worked for the Mavs. Not right away, at least. He's special NOW when he gets the ball inside with the option to dribble and space to operate. In the short term, I'd be more interested in putting shooting around him, so that teams were forced to stay 1-on-1 inside. If they still don't, I have zero doubt Flagg can make the right pass. 

Imo, this need the current roster and approach has for Flagg to start doing his thing above the break is causing needless hurdles for him to clear. Yes, he's capable of clearing them - more so with each game. But, it always feels to me like the tough part, for him and for the offense, is getting him past the first layer of defense. It's the part of the game he's still learning, and he's having to do it with paint that's packed basically the entire possession. Just because he's starting to succeed in those circumstances doesn't mean they're ideal. 

I get it - that's the way the game is being played right now. The best players have the ball in their hands. Kidd had some success with Giannis doing this, and now he's trying to skip some steps with Flagg and cut to the chase. But, I never felt like Dirk didn't get enough touches, did anyone else? I wonder what could be gained by having Flagg be the screener at times, rather than be the full time handler during his moments of the offensive plan. Or, maybe even run some off-ball screens to free him up to receive the ball in the high post, like they used to do with Dirk? Seems like his goal is to get within about 17' every time he touches it, so what might be gained by making that an easier proposition? 

Just wondering. No matter what happens moving forward I think it's crystal clear the Mavs need to put more shooting around Flagg.

[windjc]

Comparing the two is a little strange - but I agree with the above.

What makes it strange is that Flagg really hasn't fully bought the idea that's he's the big dog. I'm guessing he feels he doesn't deserve it yet. He's really all about the team. He's not naturally the initiator of the offense the way Luka is. Luka massaged every offensive play, and was almost a savant on offense. He wasn't a complete floor general at first, but he wanted the ball. Flagg makes up for his lack of touches on offense by being a stud on defense. 

I suspect Flagg's scoring will creep northward as his 3-point shooting improves. At that point his impact on the team becomes more on par with Luka - it just not singularly slanted toward the offense. He needs better perimeter players and more motion surrounding him on offense, but he's going be the team's floor general before the year is up. Building this team around him will be fun.

 Comparing the 2 is completely normal. A team lost an All-NBA white guy in the weirdest way ever and just got another younger All-NBA white guy in the weirdest way ever.

[windjc]

Since you just say the same thing over and over, there's no good reason not to just put you on ignore. From here on out, I'll just imagine a spot where you praise Flagg, the content will be blocked out, and I can just move to the next post.

How many people have you ignored for praising Luka? Telling, really.

[ACMFFL]

Let's see if Coop has lived up to the hype so far by comparing him with the two best rookies in last 10 years (for Luka and Wemby I used their stats in the first 30 games in the league)

L. Doncic:
18.8 PPG
6.5 RPG
4.9 APG
3.5 TOV
1.4 AST/TOV
1.2 STL
0.3 BLK
14.4 FGA (43.5%)
6.0 3FA (36.7%)
5.4 FTA (75.9%)
56.1% TS
+0.5
32.3 MP

V. Wembanyama:
19.2 PPG
10.1 RPG
2.8 APG
3.2 TOV
0.9 AST/TOV
1.2 STL
3.2 BLK
15.9 FGA (44.9%)
5.0 3PA (29.1%)
4.4 FTA (78.6%)
53.8% TS
-6.6
29.3 MP

C. Flagg:
19.2 PPG
6.4 RPG
3.8 APG
2.1 TOV
1.8 AST/TOV
1.2 STL
0.8 BLK
14.9 FGA (48.7%)
3.4 3PA (26.7%)
4.6 FTA (80.6%)
56.5% TS
-4.4
34.5 MP

And all of that despite being a year younger and much less experienced at professional level than Luka and Wemby.

[cow]

I may of underestimated Flagg's athletecism. I had a good feeling about Nembhard though.

[Winter]

I agree with all of this.

However, I'd like to offer a different wrinkle. While I agree completely that when (not if) Flagg becomes a lethal shooter it will open up a ton of options for him, I'm not sure that's the development I'd be holding my breath for if I worked for the Mavs. Not right away, at least. He's special NOW when he gets the ball inside with the option to dribble and space to operate. In the short term, I'd be more interested in putting shooting around him, so that teams were forced to stay 1-on-1 inside. If they still don't, I have zero doubt Flagg can make the right pass. 

Imo, this need the current roster and approach has for Flagg to start doing his thing above the break is causing needless hurdles for him to clear. Yes, he's capable of clearing them - more so with each game. But, it always feels to me like the tough part, for him and for the offense, is getting him past the first layer of defense. It's the part of the game he's still learning, and he's having to do it with paint that's packed basically the entire possession. Just because he's starting to succeed in those circumstances doesn't mean they're ideal. 

I get it - that's the way the game is being played right now. The best players have the ball in their hands. Kidd had some success with Giannis doing this, and now he's trying to skip some steps with Flagg and cut to the chase. But, I never felt like Dirk didn't get enough touches, did anyone else? I wonder what could be gained by having Flagg be the screener at times, rather than be the full time handler during his moments of the offensive plan. Or, maybe even run some off-ball screens to free him up to receive the ball in the high post, like they used to do with Dirk? Seems like his goal is to get within about 17' every time he touches it, so what might be gained by making that an easier proposition? 

Just wondering. No matter what happens moving forward I think it's crystal clear the Mavs need to put more shooting around Flagg.

Thinking about this, I was wondering during the game last night how much of the offense being run now was to showcase AD. To put it another way, how many touches would Flagg be getting if the center were just Gafford?

The word "showcase" was intentional, but I think AD needs the ball almost as much as Flagg. With that in mind, we may not be seeing the Mavericks establish any real identity with this group of players just yet. It's really in flux. Getting Kyrie back, and a few trades after the TDL may give us a better picture.

[KillerLeft]

I may of underestimated Flagg's athletecism.

It strains the mind a bit, doesn't it? I don't want to further stereotypes or even think that way, but...we're just not accustomed to seeing that type of dude do literally whatever he wants, physically, on an NBA court. And, I think it's going to pop even more as he gets stronger, both literally and with his right handle (crazy that he's better going left as an 18 year old, btw).

[mvossman]

How many people have you ignored for praising Luka? Telling, really.

"All of you are stupid, Flagg is God"

Every windjc post ever.

That gets old and brings no substance to the conversation.

[DanSchwartzgan]

"All of you are stupid, Flagg is God"

Every windjc post ever.

That gets old and brings no substance to the conversation.

I actually got a laugh out of his post today.  I'm blinded by my love for Luka?  Me?  And the evidence was a post that favorably compared Flagg the 18 year old to Luka the 19 year old.  You can't ignore quality comedy like that.

[Jmaciscool]

It strains the mind a bit, doesn't it? I don't want to further stereotypes or even think that way, but...we're just not accustomed to seeing that type of dude do literally whatever he wants, physically, on an NBA court. And, I think it's going to pop even more as he gets stronger, both literally and with his right handle (crazy that he's better going left as an 18 year old, btw).

Clip of Flagg's warning to the NBA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdEyYK1sJWU

[cow]

It strains the mind a bit, doesn't it? I don't want to further stereotypes or even think that way, but...we're just not accustomed to seeing that type of dude do literally whatever he wants, physically, on an NBA court. And, I think it's going to pop even more as he gets stronger, both literally and with his right handle (crazy that he's better going left as an 18 year old, btw).

I think my issue was confusing a perceived lack of quickness with just adjusting to this level of competition.

[KillerLeft]

I think my issue was confusing a perceived lack of quickness with just adjusting to this level of competition.

I knew he'd be quick enough (before there was talk of him playing PG, at least). I didn't realize how freaking STRONG he was, and I damn sure didn't know how explosive of a jumper he was, either.

[windjc]

"All of you are stupid, Flagg is God"

Every windjc post ever.

That gets old and brings no substance to the conversation.

***Ignores part where my comments have spurred a discussion about Flagg rather than --- insert random Mav here ---.

I am happy to see we are having conversations now about things that matter. In life, if you can't appreciate the best most blessed parts of it, you are really not living. It's easy to complain. But it's vital to have gratitude. I loved Luka, but I am SOOOOOOO happy we have Flagg.

[windjc]

Let's see if Coop has lived up to the hype so far by comparing him with the two best rookies in last 10 years (for Luka and Wemby I used their stats in the first 30 games in the league)

L. Doncic:
18.8 PPG
6.5 RPG
4.9 APG
3.5 TOV
1.4 AST/TOV
1.2 STL
0.3 BLK
14.4 FGA (43.5%)
6.0 3FA (36.7%)
5.4 FTA (75.9%)
56.1% TS
+0.5
32.3 MP

V. Wembanyama:
19.2 PPG
10.1 RPG
2.8 APG
3.2 TOV
0.9 AST/TOV
1.2 STL
3.2 BLK
15.9 FGA (44.9%)
5.0 3PA (29.1%)
4.4 FTA (78.6%)
53.8% TS
-6.6
29.3 MP

C. Flagg:
19.2 PPG
6.4 RPG
3.8 APG
2.1 TOV
1.8 AST/TOV
1.2 STL
0.8 BLK
14.9 FGA (48.7%)
3.4 3PA (26.7%)
4.6 FTA (80.6%)
56.5% TS
-4.4
34.5 MP

And all of that despite being a year younger and much less experienced at professional level than Luka and Wemby.

Yes, I remember how surreal it was watching how much Luka improved during his rookie season, believing it was some anomaly. Now, just a handful of years later, and I am watching Flagg improve even more quickly at an earlier age. Wild.

[SwisherPrice]

Caleb Martin has finally arrived. Kidd needs to not only keep playing him but play him even MORE minutes! He should not be as bad as he's looked - it's time to unleash him and get the most out of him