Game 22: Dallas Mavericks (6-15) vs. Denver Nuggets (14-5) | 8:00pm CST

[F Gump]

The only strawman is suggesting that anybody was arguing a heliocentric offense was necessary.  

Sorry, but saying that people were arguing the Mavs could "play competitive basketball without [offense being created]" is the strawmanniest thing there is, because NO ONE ever argued for that. Not even close. 

There's no question that the Mavs didn't have enough PG/passing skills when the season began, in hindsight, but it's pure BS to say that anyone ever argued the Mavs didn't need that. And that's what was said above. 

Nor, in the way it was stated, was it unreasonable to think that such a claim is saying the Mavs needed a singular creator of offense, that they lacked. If it wasn't saying that, that's fine.

Let's move on.

Everyone agrees in hindsight that Nico's roster-building and his providing proper PG talent to open the season was pathetic. Some of us wanted him gone in May, so a proper roster could be assembled. Unfortunately that didn't happen. Fortunately he's gone now.

[mvossman]

Sorry, but saying that people were arguing the Mavs could "play competitive basketball without [offense being created]" is the strawmanniest thing there is, because NO ONE ever argued for that. Not even close. 

I think its fairly clear that when he says "without offensive creation" he meant without players that can create offense.  Your interpretation is non sensical which is probably a clue that was not his meaning (especially considering this was Killer).

[F Gump]

I think its fairly clear that when he says "without offensive creation" he meant without players that can create offense.  

Sheesh, that's completely meaningless circular speak. How else would offense ever happen if players didn't do it - fairies dropping made baskets from the sky? 

But frankly, he should speak for himself as to what he meant and didn't mean. I think you're probably way off base when saying he was not alluding to a need for a system with great reliance on something more singular - heliocentric, as it were, around a very good PG - in handling the ball and passing to open players.

[mvossman]

Sheesh, that's completely meaningless circular speak. How else would offense ever happen if players didn't do it - fairies dropping made baskets from the sky? 

But frankly, he should speak for himself as to what he meant and didn't mean. I think you're probably way off base when saying he was not alluding to a need for a system with great reliance on something more singular - heliocentric, as it were, around a very good PG - in handling the ball and passing to open players.

You are being pedantic.  "Players that can't create" obviously means players that can't create well.  I would be curious to see what his meaning was.  I seriously doubt it was a longing for heliocentric play.  Much more likely it was lamenting the lack of high level creation on the roster.

[KillerLeft]

I would be curious to see what his meaning was.  I seriously doubt it was a longing for heliocentric play.  Much more likely it was lamenting the lack of high level creation on the roster.

Of course it wasn’t a longing for anything resembling heliocentric play. I’ve been railing against that style of play for years, since long before Luka was traded. I went on often and loudly about how much better offenses look “when everyone has a chance to touch the ball.”

I just meant what I meant all summer - that they need offensive creation capable of putting defense into rotation. They need a starting level NBA PG to get that done, imo. That’s why it should’ve been addressed over the summer. 

Where I might disagree with some (most?) is that I think this could/will be a need even with a healthy Kyrie. I have never really thought of him as a PG. It worked well next to Luka (back when we used two believe TWO creators was the way, before we all became convinced NONE was the answer), but, while I’m sure he’d help a ton, I don’t think he’d have been enough to get this offense to work early in the season. I think his success here has been largely due to him playing off ball a significant portion of the time. 

You need a top offensive player (top 5? Top 10? Not sure) to succeed. AND, you need that guy to understand how to play a style that gets his TEAM into rhythm, who doesn’t only let go of the ball when he thinks he’ll get an assist. All the greats learn this, eventually. I was down on Luka towards the end because I was giving up hope that he would. 

Watching the Lakers play lately, I’ve been wondering whether some of my complaints about Luka might have been better directed at Kidd’s offense, but the jury is still out on that one. Either way, I think it’s telling that it has only taken 20 games of offensive futility to make a small, undrafted two-way player look like the savior (no disrespect towards Nembhard intended). Speaking of Nembhard, did he play some heliocentric style? Did he make “all the passes” to beat Denver? No, he just played PG well. Everyone looked better as a result. Flagg, Davis…everyone.