MAVS NEWS:

[DanSchwartzgan]

We've joked before that the "trade" would actually be known as the Max Christie trade when it's all said and done. Good to see him playing really good basketball on both ends.


This season:

12.3 PPG
1.3 RPG
1.3 APG
55.2% FG
56.5% 3PT (5.8 3PA)
100% FT

I'm a big Christie fan, but I wasn't all that excited to watch the Point-Christie experiment that was going on last night.  I'm OK with efforts to throw Flagg into the deep end and hopefully improve his skills as a swimmer.  That's an investment and that kind of investment has paid off before with superstars like Tatum and Giannis.  But, I think Christie is a guy whose confidence and effectiveness are hurt by asking him to do too much.  He's good at certain things.  Let him do those things.

Scattershooting:

I've yet to see a single person disagree when someone posts something about trading AD.  Yet, posting those words seems to be a badge of honor for some.  What would be helpful would be if someone could come up with suggestions on cap legal trades that actually make sense for the other team.  I've been looking and it isn't easy to do.  So far, Atlanta is about the only thing I've come up with.  Are they crazy enough to try to add AD to their Trae/KP core?  Even if the answer was yes, I suspect it would be a summer trade rather than a TDL trade.

As much as I'd like the team (and AD) to succeed, I worry that success might not be in our best interest.  AD is extension eligible this summer.  I don't think he's much of a threat to opt out of his 27/28 PO, but I worry that success either this season or next will cause Nico to want to double down and add some years to AD's deal.  No thank you.  What we need is enough AD success to peak another teams interest, but not so much success that Nico gives him more money.  BTW, I'm not enamored with the idea of picks in an AD trade.  Give me guys who fit well with Cooper's skill set and timeline.

Welcome back Mr. Williams and congrats to FG for his steadfast belief in his game.

As I said earlier, I don't hate Kidd's efforts to expand Flagg's game (or test his game...maybe).  Its not like he had a choice while Williams was out.  The problem I have is Flagg tends to defer to AD when he's in the game.  That, plus the game is pretty slow in those minutes.  I'm not sure playing a PG (when we have two or more healthy ones who aren't in jail) helps Flagg that much when AD is in the game.  Flagg playing with a bunch of ball movers, some of whom can hit open shots?  Sign me up for more of that.  The other problem with inserting Williams or D'Lo into the starting lineup is you have to sit someone if everyone is healthy.  PJ has arguably been our best player...so, not him.  Lively?  No, his development is important to me.  The obvious candidate would be Klay, but that screws up the bench rotation and will hurt Max's development.  Bad Klay is really a problem for this team.

My thought entering the season was hang around .500 until Kyrie returns and then maybe we can win 60% of our games from that point forward.  If Kyrie gets back at the halfway mark, that makes you a 45 win team.  Injuries and a new system with new people playing key roles is making the first part of the equation difficult to envision at this point.  But, if we hadn't laid an egg in that Washington game we'd be 3-2.  I don't think Kidd really cares what the record is right now.  there will be enough teams crowded around the 6th-11th spots that teams can control their destiny in the last month of the season.  6th in the west would be ideal if we are good enough when Kyrie returns.  Falling into the lottery isn't the end of the world either.  It would make this season brutal to watch, but it would probably be better for us in the long run.

[Chicagojk]

Scattershooting:

I've yet to see a single person disagree when someone posts something about trading AD.  Yet, posting those words seems to be a badge of honor for some.  What would be helpful would be if someone could come up with suggestions on cap legal trades that actually make sense for the other team.  I've been looking and it isn't easy to do.  So far, Atlanta is about the only thing I've come up with.  Are they crazy enough to try to add AD to their Trae/KP core?  Even if the answer was yes, I suspect it would be a summer trade rather than a TDL trade.

As much as I'd like the team (and AD) to succeed, I worry that success might not be in our best interest.  AD is extension eligible this summer.  I don't think he's much of a threat to opt out of his 27/28 PO, but I worry that success either this season or next will cause Nico to want to double down and add some years to AD's deal.  No thank you.  What we need is enough AD success to peak another teams interest, but not so much success that Nico gives him more money.  BTW, I'm not enamored with the idea of picks in an AD trade.  Give me guys who fit well with Cooper's skill set and timeline.

.

I am ok going with the AD timeline and Cooper timeline for now.  Although we will need to see quick progress as AD as your best player.    I am also not in favor of chasing the AD can lead your team to a championship down a cliff. So no short sited moves that will impact your future.   If this team does not look good enough, we may need to change directions this summer.

I don't think there is any chance AD is moved this year.  Probably the only chance is if Nico is fired and this year does not go as planned and something happens in the summer.  Probably low chance though.   If they were to look for a deal, one of the limiting factors is most of the teams who are interested in the Bucks and Giannis would be the trade partners for AD.   I don't see any of those teams exiting that wait in order to secure AD.

[mvossman]

I'm a big Christie fan, but I wasn't all that excited to watch the Point-Christie experiment that was going on last night.  I'm OK with efforts to throw Flagg into the deep end and hopefully improve his skills as a swimmer.  That's an investment and that kind of investment has paid off before with superstars like Tatum and Giannis.  But, I think Christie is a guy whose confidence and effectiveness are hurt by asking him to do too much.  He's good at certain things.  Let him do those things.

Scattershooting:

I've yet to see a single person disagree when someone posts something about trading AD.  Yet, posting those words seems to be a badge of honor for some.  What would be helpful would be if someone could come up with suggestions on cap legal trades that actually make sense for the other team.  I've been looking and it isn't easy to do.  So far, Atlanta is about the only thing I've come up with.  Are they crazy enough to try to add AD to their Trae/KP core?  Even if the answer was yes, I suspect it would be a summer trade rather than a TDL trade.

As much as I'd like the team (and AD) to succeed, I worry that success might not be in our best interest.  AD is extension eligible this summer.  I don't think he's much of a threat to opt out of his 27/28 PO, but I worry that success either this season or next will cause Nico to want to double down and add some years to AD's deal.  No thank you.  What we need is enough AD success to peak another teams interest, but not so much success that Nico gives him more money.  BTW, I'm not enamored with the idea of picks in an AD trade.  Give me guys who fit well with Cooper's skill set and timeline.

Welcome back Mr. Williams and congrats to FG for his steadfast belief in his game.

As I said earlier, I don't hate Kidd's efforts to expand Flagg's game (or test his game...maybe).  Its not like he had a choice while Williams was out.  The problem I have is Flagg tends to defer to AD when he's in the game.  That, plus the game is pretty slow in those minutes.  I'm not sure playing a PG (when we have two or more healthy ones who aren't in jail) helps Flagg that much when AD is in the game.  Flagg playing with a bunch of ball movers, some of whom can hit open shots?  Sign me up for more of that.  The other problem with inserting Williams or D'Lo into the starting lineup is you have to sit someone if everyone is healthy.  PJ has arguably been our best player...so, not him.  Lively?  No, his development is important to me.  The obvious candidate would be Klay, but that screws up the bench rotation and will hurt Max's development.  Bad Klay is really a problem for this team.

My thought entering the season was hang around .500 until Kyrie returns and then maybe we can win 60% of our games from that point forward.  If Kyrie gets back at the halfway mark, that makes you a 45 win team.  Injuries and a new system with new people playing key roles is making the first part of the equation difficult to envision at this point.  But, if we hadn't laid an egg in that Washington game we'd be 3-2.  I don't think Kidd really cares what the record is right now.  there will be enough teams crowded around the 6th-11th spots that teams can control their destiny in the last month of the season.  6th in the west would be ideal if we are good enough when Kyrie returns.  Falling into the lottery isn't the end of the world either.  It would make this season brutal to watch, but it would probably be better for us in the long run.

An AD extension would be a complete disaster.  My biggest fear was that Nico would trade away the rest of our future assets in a futile trade, and now you have added this to the list of concerns.

I think you have to insert a PG into the starting lineup.  The numbers are so blatant right now.  Until all three of AD/Lively/Gafford are healthy the easy answer is to start only one center, and I am starting to wonder if all three will ever be healthy together.

[Smitty]

An AD extension would be a complete disaster.  My biggest fear was that Nico would trade away the rest of our future assets in a futile trade, and now you have added this to the list of concerns.

I think you have to insert a PG into the starting lineup.  The numbers are so blatant right now.  Until all three of AD/Lively/Gafford are healthy the easy answer is to start only one center, and I am starting to wonder if all three will ever be healthy together.

They won't be. At least not long enough to form some kind of identity of a 2-Big lineup for a majority of the game.


I agree that the team would get off to a better start if you inserted a PG for Klay in the starting group. I understand why Kidd hasn't. He wants Flagg to get some minutes running the offense and Klay is getting a spot there because of status and reputation, for now. (At least Klay isn't getting starter minutes)

I still think the gripes about Kidd not having a PG on the court at all times is overblown. He's only had DLO and Nembhard available, until last night when BWill posted bail. If the argument is that Kidd should have been playing DLO 48 minutes, it's unreasonable. If you think Nembhard was the difference in a win or loss, I can't get there.

It will be interesting to see if/when Kidd makes changes. He's known for sticking with something the first 10 or so games of the season. Until we see this team relatively healthy, I can't put a lot of blame on Kidd or Nico, YET.

[KillerLeft]

I still think the gripes about Kidd not having a PG on the court at all times is overblown. He's only had DLO and Nembhard available, until last night when BWill posted bail. If the argument is that Kidd should have been playing DLO 48 minutes, it's unreasonable. If you think Nembhard was the difference in a win or loss, I can't get there.

You keep making the argument that the starters don't really matter compared to other things, like the closing lineup and the group that plays the most together throughout the game, and normally I'd agree. That's a discussion we've had around here (and in past community locations) for 20 years. In a general sense, I agree with that take, but usually, the starting lineup has a chance to be successful, even if some argue it's not ideal. In this case, I disagree, mostly because I DON'T think "getting Flagg some time running the offense" is a reasonable or defensible goal at this point in time. What THIS team needs is to find something...anything...that works well enough to build around. You and I seem to agree about what we think that group will be, for the most part. In the specific circumstances of this team, this season, I actually do think it's a mistake not to lean into that and get games started off on better footing. 

And yes, sorry...I do think playing Nembhard more than Russell in a game or two early might've been the difference between winning and losing. Nobody wants to play Russell 48 minutes, but I think he played as few as 12 in one game. I'm sorry, but I think that's criminal, given who has been available.

[Chicagojk]

I don't think the issue is that Cooper is playing point.  He really isn't that much.  The issue is who you pair him with.   Eventually Cooper is going to be very good being a focal point of an offense.   How soon?  Time will tell.

When you throw him out there with AD, Center, Klay and PJ it is just messy.  Who is the connector?   Who can put pressure on a defense off the dribble?  You are left with a very stuck in the mud offense where everyone is looking at each other.   AD is slow enough already.   Get down the court and not wait in the backcourt to see if he needs to dribble the ball up the court.   Add one creator and things opens up.  Add another secondary creator with COOP and things really open up.    

Personally I want to see more Lively in the high post running offense.    He needs to be a threat to score though.

[Chicagojk]

BTW, Coop is not Luka running the pick and role, but who is.  He is though very promising.  He already knows how to lean his body into the defender to get space.   He is going to be really, really tough soon.   If you find the right players to fit around him, he is going to be a monster with the threat of getting into the lane.  It is still rough at times, but that is to be expected.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think the issue is that Cooper is playing point.  He really isn't that much.  The issue is who you pair him with.   Eventually Cooper is going to be very good being a focal point of an offense.   How soon?  Time will tell.

In a way, we're saying the same thing. 

They want him to "play point" specifically BECAUSE they want to play the mega-sized, slow lineup you go on to describe. That's the problem. 

I have zero problem with Flagg being involved in the offense, even as a ball-handler decision-maker...in situations where it makes sense. Putting him in the position of being the only option to handle the ball to start games is, to me, retarded. He's literally being asked to learn that role on the fly, in front of thousands of people watching live and more on TV, at the NBA level, with all the talking heads (and apparently some Mavs "fans," going by the game threads) watching like hawks for reasons to create negative talking points. I don't think of Flagg as someone who can't handle pressure - quite the opposite, actually - and I have been pleasantly surprised by how skilled he actually is with the ball. But, it's A LOT of pressure. Too much to reasonably expect him to navigate, imho, and the team's slow start backs this notion up in my mind.

[Smitty]

You keep making the argument that the starters don't really matter compared to other things, like the closing lineup and the group that plays the most together throughout the game, and normally I'd agree. That's a discussion we've had around here (and in past community locations) for 20 years. In a general sense, I agree with that take, but usually, the starting lineup has a chance to be successful, even if some argue it's not ideal. In this case, I disagree, mostly because I DON'T think "getting Flagg some time running the offense" is a reasonable or defensible goal at this point in time. What THIS team needs is to find something...anything...that works well enough to build around. You and I seem to agree about what we think that group will be, for the most part. In the specific circumstances of this team, this season, I actually do think it's a mistake not to lean into that and get games started off on better footing. 

And yes, sorry...I do think playing Nembhard more than Russell in a game or two early might've been the difference between winning and losing. Nobody wants to play Russell 48 minutes, but I think he played as few as 12 in one game. I'm sorry, but I think that's criminal, given who has been available.

I normally don't have to make an argument about the starting lineup but the comments here, discord, and social media that call Kidd an idiot for not starting a PG have zero context. Kidd told us what he was going to do with Flagg. He's had one healthy PG available to him that's on the 15-man roster. I agree that he didn't play DLO enough in the first two games, but since then he's averaged 26 minutes a game. And the one time he didn't play 30 was last night when BWill got 22.

There's plenty to gripe about with Kidd. He takes longer than I'd like to get to something obvious. Now that he has two healthy PG's it will be interesting to see what he does. Even then, will he do the same when all of AD, Lively, Gafford, PJW, Flagg, Max, Naji, Klay are healthy?

And to double down on the starting group opinion. I've always felt people put way too much emphasis on it, especially in Kidd's tenure. They play 8-10 minutes together in a 48-minute game. I'm much more concerned with the other 38-40 minutes. It doesn't mean I don't think it's important or have opinions on what would make that group better, just that those opinions get recycled and emphasized, mostly to call the coach an idiot. I think its lazy.

[KillerLeft]

And to double down on the starting group opinion. I've always felt people put way too much emphasis on it, especially in Kidd's tenure. They play 8-10 minutes together in a 48-minute game. I'm much more concerned with the other 38-40 minutes. It doesn't mean I don't think it's important or have opinions on what would make that group better, just that those opinions get recycled and emphasized, mostly to call the coach an idiot. I think its lazy.

Again...this isn't the conversation. This isn't a conversation about whether or not the starters need to be the 5 best players on the team, or the best lineup synergy possible, or whatever. I have been on your side of that conversation for 20 years. I agree. 

But in THIS case, they are starting 5 players (or have been) that have, in my mind, almost a 0% chance of playing well together. I know some disagree, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't believe you're one of them. 

I agree, having only Russell and Nembhard available made things tougher to start the season, but I get the sense that the lineup I hate is the lineup they LOVE. This is my concern. Can we maybe experiment with that lineup against the other team's bench unit a little more? Is it really reasonable to literally GIVE the other team ownership of the game's first 5-7 minutes? Again, it's not that they're not starting with their BEST lineup that bothers me, it's that they're starting with a lineup that's basically guaranteed to hand the first subs a 10 point deficit. 

Right now, they have Russell AND Williams healthy and available. AND, the bigs are becoming less available daily. I suuuuuuuuure hope Kidd takes this opportunity to get more ball-handling in the games, even if it's just to keep the gun out of my mouth.

[Smitty]

Again...this isn't the conversation. This isn't a conversation about whether or not the starters need to be the 5 best players on the team, or the best lineup synergy possible, or whatever. I have been on your side of that conversation for 20 years. I agree. 

But in THIS case, they are starting 5 players (or have been) that have, in my mind, almost a 0% chance of playing well together. I know some disagree, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't believe you're one of them. 

I agree, having only Russell and Nembhard available made things tougher to start the season, but I get the sense that the lineup I hate is the lineup they LOVE. This is my concern. Can we maybe experiment with that lineup against the other team's bench unit a little more? Is it really reasonable to literally GIVE the other team ownership of the game's first 5-7 minutes? Again, it's not that they're not starting with their BEST lineup that bothers me, it's that they're starting with a lineup that's basically guaranteed to hand the first subs a 10 point deficit. 

Right now, they have Russell AND Williams healthy and available. AND, the bigs are becoming less available daily. I suuuuuuuuure hope Kidd takes this opportunity to get more ball-handling in the games, even if it's just to keep the gun out of my mouth.

We agree. I don't think my insistence on feeling the need to provide context to some of these posts have anything to do with your opinions. Of course, if I were the coach I would have DLO over Klay in the starting lineup. I said as much after watching the first preseason game. I think it's the "coach is an idiot" stuff that bothers me. 

I'd also have one of DLO or BWill on the floor at all times, now that both are available. I'd also start AD at the 5 and have Max over Lively. OR if we're talking truly best 5 players, I wouldn't start Flagg.

I have as many opinions as others on the starting group, and I think it's important, but it's more than just the best 5 players. It's how they play together. Who do you have available. How to set up substitutions for rotations you're trying to get to. How to get to certain matchups and a closing group. How to get your best 8 enough minutes. How to deviate from all of that when one guy is playing better than the other. etc. etc.

Edit: Not that you don't know all of this...or that I think we disagree. Just explaining why I've been so vocal about it.

[mvossman]

I still think the gripes about Kidd not having a PG on the court at all times is overblown. He's only had DLO and Nembhard available, until last night when BWill posted bail. If the argument is that Kidd should have been playing DLO 48 minutes, it's unreasonable. If you think Nembhard was the difference in a win or loss, I can't get there.

I'm surprise this is your attitude for someone who likes to break down the numbers. The stat somebody posted regarding Dlo on/off is insane.  He is not even playing that well, but its a testament to how desperate this team is for creation.  I agree Dlo can't play 48 minutes and Nembhard is not a difference maker, but Dlo played 9 minutes in that Wizards game and none in the second half.  I think there is a very good chance they win that game if he gets 30+.  They had both Dlo and Williams last night and played 10 losing (-6) minutes without either on the court.  For a team struggling with all of these injuries they have no margin for error and can't afford to blow games with silly lineups.

[Smitty]

I'm surprise this is your attitude for someone who likes to break down the numbers. The stat somebody posted regarding Dlo on/off is insane.  He is not even playing that well, but its a testament to how desperate this team is for creation.  I agree Dlo can't play 48 minutes and Nembhard is not a difference maker, but Dlo played 9 minutes in that Wizards game and none in the second half.  I think there is a very good chance they win that game if he gets 30+.  They had both Dlo and Williams last night and played 10 losing (-6) minutes without either on the court.  For a team struggling with all of these injuries they have no margin for error and can't afford to blow games with silly lineups.

I posted the stat. I understand the importance of having a PG on the court at all times. If you read all of my posts, you'll see the missing context. If I need to jump on the Kidd is an idiot train, then yes, I think DLO should have played a lot more in the Wizards game.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

When you throw him out there with AD, Center, Klay and PJ it is just messy.  Who is the connector?   Who can put pressure on a defense off the dribble?  You are left with a very stuck in the mud offense where everyone is looking at each other.   AD is slow enough already.   Get down the court and not wait in the backcourt to see if he needs to dribble the ball up the court.   Add one creator and things opens up.  Add another secondary creator with COOP and things really open up.    

This is verbatim how I feel.  You want two playmakers out there with Cooper Flagg.  He should be the 3rd playmaker.  Maybe by next year he can be the secondary playmaker. Maybe 3-4 years from now he can be the primary playmaker.

Starting 4 bigs and making him the PG is just so out of bounds crazy because Klay and Christie are not playmakers either. I get that Kidd "likes to experiment" but this is to the level of purposely throwing games.

[mvossman]

I posted the stat. I understand the importance of having a PG on the court at all times. If you read all of my posts, you'll see the missing context. If I need to jump on the Kidd is an idiot train, then yes, I think DLO should have played a lot more in the Wizards game.

I got caught up in work while posting this and missed several posts since the one I replied to.

I do disagree with the term "overblown".  I think Kidd has been even more stubborn with this than usual.  He had the perfect opportunity to start a PG last night with the injuries (and Bwill being back) and went with Max instead.  I still think there is some kind of passive aggressiveness going on.

[Smitty]

I got caught up in work while posting this and missed several posts since the one I replied to.

I do disagree with the term "overblown".  I think Kidd has been even more stubborn with this than usual.  He had the perfect opportunity to start a PG last night with the injuries (and Bwill being back) and went with Max instead.  I still think there is some kind of passive aggressiveness going on.

Your first mistake was letting work get in the way. You're not a true MFFL.

I agree he had the perfect excuse to actually start DLO last night. I wanted him to. I'm not anti-PG like some are trying to make me out to be. All I was doing was explaining why we haven't seen it from Kidd until last night. Even then, he wasn't fully all-in and stuck with Flagg at PG for 6 minutes of the game.

[KillerLeft]

Your first mistake was letting work get in the way. You're not a true MFFL.

Agreed. With "fans" like this (putting a "job" ahead of the team, of all things), it's easy to imagine why the season has started so poorly.

[Smitty]

You took some flack on the Max better than Klay comment, but I will say I would much rather see Max on the court right now.

@sixfivelando
Max Christie on the court, Klay off the court
+7.64 Net Rating
121.43 Offensive Rating
113.79 Defensive Rating

Klay Thompson on the court, Max off the court
-26.20 Net Rating
90.98 Offensive Rating
117.19 Defensive Rating



It's early in the season and the small sample size stuff is always wonky but it fits the eye test. Despite Klay being a huge negative, the starting lineup is still a net positive. The simplest solution is inserting a PG for Klay, right? Or maybe just inserting Max?  

As for Klay's game. Part of me thinks he's declined quite a bit and part of me wants to think he'd look a lot better playing alongside a real PG at all times. At least that's some copium for the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, he went from adequate to bad pretty quickly. 

Either way, I stand by my statement that Max is a better player than Klay at this point in their careers. Klay is a notoriously slow starter though, and I do think he will have stretches that will help this team win games.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I am ok going with the AD timeline and Cooper timeline for now.  Although we will need to see quick progress as AD as your best player.    I am also not in favor of chasing the AD can lead your team to a championship down a cliff. So no short sited moves that will impact your future.   If this team does not look good enough, we may need to change directions this summer.

I don't think there is any chance AD is moved this year.  Probably the only chance is if Nico is fired and this year does not go as planned and something happens in the summer.  Probably low chance though.   If they were to look for a deal, one of the limiting factors is most of the teams who are interested in the Bucks and Giannis would be the trade partners for AD.   I don't see any of those teams exiting that wait in order to secure AD.

You make a good point about AD being behind Giannis.  That one probably comes to a head this summer as he will either sign an extension with the Bucks or they will need to trade him.  Maybe someone who had set themselves up to trade for Giannis would be interested in two years of AD as a consolation prize.  

I see three possible paths:

1.  AD is really good and the team gels as the season progresses and Kyrie returns.  As a result, we have a decent playoff run.

2.  AD produces good numbers, but the team just doesn’t work.  It takes some pressure off of Flagg in his Rookie year, but it becomes clear there is no reason to wait two more years to start to build around Flagg.

3.  AD is hurt a lot and we end up in the lottery again.

I realize this is projected to be a good draft, I think 1 and 2 above are better outcomes than 3.  They provide an AD who might have some positive trade value.  I think the third option probably puts you in the back half of the lottery and an albatross AD contract for the next two seasons.  So, I want AD to succeed here, just not so much that Nico wants to add years.  I hope that ends up being someone else’s decision to make.

[DanSchwartzgan]

@sixfivelando
Max Christie on the court, Klay off the court
+7.64 Net Rating
121.43 Offensive Rating
113.79 Defensive Rating

Klay Thompson on the court, Max off the court
-26.20 Net Rating
90.98 Offensive Rating
117.19 Defensive Rating



It's early in the season and the small sample size stuff is always wonky but it fits the eye test. Despite Klay being a huge negative, the starting lineup is still a net positive. The simplest solution is inserting a PG for Klay, right? Or maybe just inserting Max?  

As for Klay's game. Part of me thinks he's declined quite a bit and part of me wants to think he'd look a lot better playing alongside a real PG at all times. At least that's some copium for the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, he went from adequate to bad pretty quickly. 

Either way, I stand by my statement that Max is a better player than Klay at this point in their careers. Klay is a notoriously slow starter though, and I do think he will have stretches that will help this team win games.

I saw this and started to post it myself.  One thing I wonder, but am too lazy to look up…is Max getting more of the minutes where Kidd is playing a PG while Klay has gotten more of the non-PG minutes.  It still leaves you with a chicken/egg situation.  Is DLo helping Max’s numbers or is it the other way around.  You also have to wonder if Klay is the culprit in the problems with the lineups with all the bigs or a victim of those lineups.  

I think some of this will sort itself out eventually.  Kidd makes frustrating lineup choices early in the year every season, but he eventually tends to get to things that work.  He’s tended to close with Max almost from day one, so he clearly values what he brings.  My favorite lineup would be Kyrie/Max/PJ/Flagg/Lively, but that isn’t realistic as a starting or closing lineup if AD is healthy.  It is more realistic to swap out AD for Lively.  If you do that, then Gafford and Klay is the logical outgoing trade package if you aren’t going to ever trade AD.