AROUND the NBA:

[Chicagojk]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Martin WILL start the season in the Mavs 10-man rotation. Really, Kidd plays 11-man rotations in the regular season. Still, when everyone is healthy, I see B-Will being the odd man out. I like him, but DLO and Exum are better and Flagg will play some point-forward also. In those instances, B-Will doesn’t provide the same off-ball advantages that DLO and Exum do.

In the end, Nico traded for Martin, and his salary/skillset tells me that he’ll play. At least to start the season. He’s by far the best POA defender on the team and has some playmaking ability. Nico/Kidd will give him the rope early, to see if the vision/trade was what they thought it’d be.

DLO 26 - Exum 16 - (Flagg 6)
Klay 24 - Christie 16 - Martin 8
Flagg 24 - Naji 16 - (Martin 8)
AD 22 - PJW 26
Gafford 20 - Lively 18 - (AD 10)

AD 32
Flagg 30
PJW 26
DLO 26
Klay 24
Gafford 20

Lively 18
Exum 16
Christie 16
Naji 16
Martin 16


This will be so rare, that it’s almost not worth talking about. I imagine there will only be a handful of games where EVERYONE is healthy, but it’s easy to see a path where these 11 all get minutes they’re used to getting, even in the ~10 games they’re all available.

 I have similar thoughts.   You mention, if everyone is healthy.  That is key.  When they are, someone is going to be left out.   Someone probably deserving who should be playing.  Kidd is going to have his work cut out for him.   I will be disappointed if Christie is the one who is left out.   I liked what I saw last year.  He still needs plenty of work and I am not sure what he is yet.  I do think potentially he could be a really good high minute bench player.   There are things he definately needs to improve on though.   He just feels like a smart player though.

[mvossman]

Despite fairly good numbers at times, no one seems to want to pay Grimes and the assets it takes to get him when he's traded are less than impressive.  At the time it all happened, it made sense to move from Green to Grimes and from THJ to Klay.  Green finally got to start and saw his usage actually go down on a bad team.  And, as mentioned, THJ was a rental and is now a Vet Min.  But, Klay and Martin don't seem to be the answer either...especially at guard.  Because of his status around the league, you can't just ship Thompson off to some cellar dweller.   Meanwhile, Martin looks like someone who is going to really be costly from a tax standpoint if he's indeed the 12th man or so on the depth chart.

The problem is they never replaced DJJ.  They really need that high level point of attack defender (which they still don't have).  If Grimes had been able to play that role it would have made a lot of sense, but he is a lot more like Klay than DJJ.  They would have been better off paying DJJ his 10 mil to start and sign Grimes (instead of a 10 year older Klay) to the MLE as THJ replacement.  Then Grimes gets plenty of minutes because he is not competing with Klay for the same role.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Grimes.  There is enough evidence to have concerns that he might have coachability issues, but there are also reasonable alternative explanations for that evidence.  I'm going to be very curious how it plays out in Philly.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4579...takes-2020



All 30 teams roster mistakes since 2020

[ballsrchr]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4579...takes-2020



All 30 teams roster mistakes since 2020

I especially like #1...

It was pretty spot on.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I especially like #1...

It was pretty spot on.

Regardless of how the future plays out between both teams, this has to be top five for the worst trade ever, no matter what sport.

[numnuts23]

Regardless of how the future plays out between both teams, this has to be top five for the worst trade ever, no matter what sport.

Yup...it's not just that they traded him (that's bad enough to be one of the worst), it's the focus on 1 sole team who didn't even have to give up the farm to get him. 

FU Nico

[DallasMaverick]

Regardless of how the future plays out between both teams, this has to be top five for the worst trade ever, no matter what sport.

Hmm…

Isn’t the big question about how the future plays out?

For example, Luka ruptures an Achilles in November, and never plays again.  AD wins 4 championships with the Mavs. Do you still believe it was a bad trade?

[Jmaciscool]

Hmm…

Isn’t the big question about how the future plays out?

For example, Luka ruptures an Achilles in November, and never plays again.  AD wins 4 championships with the Mavs. Do you still believe it was a bad trade?

Yes, it was a bad trade.  There aren't any what-ifs or what-abouts that can happen that will change that.

To me the above scenario is like saying "if you bet your life savings on one roll of the dice in Vegas and win a ton of money then doesn't that make it a good decision?"  It's still a bad decision even if an unlikely positive outcome is the result.

[Mavs2021]

Hmm…

Isn’t the big question about how the future plays out?

For example, Luka ruptures an Achilles in November, and never plays again.  AD wins 4 championships with the Mavs. Do you still believe it was a bad trade?

I wanted to write: We should ban the first person that will defend-troll Nico´s top spot and we all know which clown that it will be.

You did not disappoint.

[Winter]

I was listening to Jason Timpf's podcast about the Lakers moves this off-season.

Essentially, he said this could go pretty bad given the history. The Lakers are relying on the health and professionalism of LeBron who's over 40, Doncic who is frequently out of shape, Ayton who has real maturity issues, and Smart who had had trouble playing half a season for the last six years. Even LaRiva has had trouble staying healthy in his short career. The Lakers are relying on perfect health to be competitve in the playoffs.

And of course, none of the players mentioned have played a full season together.

[DallasMaverick]

Yes, it was a bad trade.  There aren't any what-ifs or what-abouts that can happen that will change that.

To me the above scenario is like saying "if you bet your life savings on one roll of the dice in Vegas and win a ton of money then doesn't that make it a good decision?"  It's still a bad decision even if an unlikely positive outcome is the result.

I guess I’m stuck. Aren’t results the only real measure of a value-based decision?

Back in 1990, I kept my Novell stock and sold my Microsoft stock. In retrospect, it was a really bad trade - because of the results.

I suppose that, if you’re using some other measure than team success, you could render an absolute and immediate judgment.

So, let me try to state your position: “The Luka trade was a bad trade because I don’t like it.”

I certainly can’t argue with that!

[DallasMaverick]

I was listening to Jason Timpf's podcast about the Lakers moves this off-season.

Essentially, he said this could go pretty bad given the history. The Lakers are relying on the health and professionalism of LeBron who's over 40, Doncic who is frequently out of shape, Ayton who has real maturity issues, and Smart who had had trouble playing half a season for the last six years. Even LaRiva has had trouble staying healthy in his short career. The Lakers are relying on perfect health to be competitve in the playoffs.

And of course, none of the players mentioned have played a full season together.

But wait…

Aren’t you saying that we need to see results before we render a judgement on the trade?

Can’t we just render an opinion and be done with it?

[Winter]

But wait…

Aren’t you saying that we need to see results before we render a judgement on the trade?

Can’t we just render an opinion and be done with it?

Yes. Yes, you can.

[myconsumerclub]

Three Questions:

What are the odds we have to expose Brandon in order to create roster space for Exum before we give him our 3rd two way contract?

Who do you think another team will take interest in from our end of the bench pieces to give us a shot at moving them off for roster space so we do not need to expose Brandon?

By what date does such a trade need to take place?

[Jmaciscool]

I guess I’m stuck. Aren’t results the only real measure of a value-based decision?

Back in 1990, I kept my Novell stock and sold my Microsoft stock. In retrospect, it was a really bad trade - because of the results.

I suppose that, if you’re using some other measure than team success, you could render an absolute and immediate judgment.

So, let me try to state your position: “The Luka trade was a bad trade because I don’t like it.”

I certainly can’t argue with that!

Sorry, I guess I didn't explain my position very well if that's what you got from it.

My feeling is that you have to factor in the risks and likely outcomes. So for me it's not "The Luka trade was bad because I didn't like it" but instead "the Luka trade was bad because it traded a younger generational talent for an older generational talent without getting compensated accordingly for the difference in talent and age of the players." That's not even taking into account the lack of shopping for other offers, the fact the Mavs sent back a second round pick, etc. 

Put another way, and to use a variation of your example, let's say the Mavs traded Gafford for Jokic, and in the first game Jokic gets a career ending injury and never plays another game for the Mavs while Gafford helps Denver win four rings. Would that be a good trade? I would argue the trade itself was still good but had an unfortunate outcome that wasn't likely (but not impossible).

Hopefully that helps better explain where I'm coming from.

[mvossman]

I was listening to Jason Timpf's podcast about the Lakers moves this off-season.

Essentially, he said this could go pretty bad given the history. The Lakers are relying on the health and professionalism of LeBron who's over 40, Doncic who is frequently out of shape, Ayton who has real maturity issues, and Smart who had had trouble playing half a season for the last six years. Even LaRiva has had trouble staying healthy in his short career. The Lakers are relying on perfect health to be competitve in the playoffs.

And of course, none of the players mentioned have played a full season together.

Sounds like the Mavs.

[omahen]

I was listening to Jason Timpf's podcast about the Lakers moves this off-season.

Essentially, he said this could go pretty bad given the history. The Lakers are relying on the health and professionalism of LeBron who's over 40, Doncic who is frequently out of shape, Ayton who has real maturity issues, and Smart who had had trouble playing half a season for the last six years. Even LaRiva has had trouble staying healthy in his short career. The Lakers are relying on perfect health to be competitve in the playoffs.

And of course, none of the players mentioned have played a full season together.

You picked a very pessimistic interpretation of what he said

He said that Lakers have a big variety of possibilities, extremely high variance. Everything goes well, they are a contender. Things don't go well, they can even miss the play-in. 

Timpf is a bit dissapointed because he thinks Lakers are holding back pick and Knecht, saving them for potential star trade (Giannis or Jokic) next season. I am not so sure that really is their plan. I mean, they already traded those assets in the unsuccessful Williams trade. I think it is totally possible, that a high level starter was never available. You don't use these assets on guys like Thybulle. You need a high(er) level starter. One such player that was traded was Bane and he cost 4 FRP. Perhaps Cam Johnson would be an upgrade (I am not convinced he is a good enough defender for what Lakers need) as he was traded for 1 FRP, but not sure what value BKN saw in MPJ. There was no other high level starter that was traded this summer that Lakers could afford and would make sense on Lakers. For example Collins, Simons - none of them makes much sense for Lakers.

Lakers biggest need is an athletic 3-D wing that is at least decent on offense. What player that fits this description would be available? It was reported Miami wanted FRP and Knecht (and Hachimura) for Wiggins and I doubt anyone thinks that would be a good move for Lakers. What kind of wing can you get for a FRP and Knecht? Do the Lakers become surefire contenders if they trade the FRP for Thybulle? I think Lakers would trade for such a guy immediately if the price was lower, but it just seems it is not. 

Part of the problem is, that there are only three clear tanking teams in Utah, Washington and BKN. None of them has a player that would fit what Lakers need. Everyone else is at least hoping they can compete for play-in at this point. Based on that, they are only willing to do business if they get a very good price in return. My guess is, we will see more opportunities closer to TDL, when some teams will inevitabely see their season sucks and might start selling off some pieces for more future assets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e69Abx03lzY

[Winter]

Would you consider "extremely high variance" optimistic?

Yes, I agree it's pessimistic. When he says the Lakers will need very good health from all those players, that sounds pessimistic - as it should be. I think the same thing for the Mavericks really. They will need good health to compete in Western Conference.

[Chicagojk]

Mavs at #19 in the athletic rankings post draft and most of free agency.

San Antonio at 20

Dallas Mavericks

Last ranking: 17
Free agency: PG Kyrie Irving (re-signed), SF Dante Exum (re-signed), C Dwight Powell (exercised option)
Additions: SF Cooper Flagg (draft), PG D’Angelo Russell
Departures: PG Spencer Dinwiddie

Midsummer summary: Dallas has something of a crowded roster and needs to shed a standard contract. But whoever that player might be, No. 1 pick Flagg replaces them. Automatic upgrade! The only other roster change of note is that Russell is here to replace Dinwiddie, which should be another upgrade for the Mavericks, although Russell had a forgettable season that saw him drop below 40 percent from the field for the first time in his career. It will be up to Flagg and Russell to run Dallas’ offense and find Anthony Davis, who is recovering from surgery to repair a detached retina. Elsewhere in the surgery department, center Dereck Lively II had foot surgery this month. While Davis and Lively should be ready for camp, it underscores the lack of availability both players have had. Availability, of course, is a major concern for Kyrie Irving as well, who re-signed about four months after tearing his ACL. There is more than enough size here, but Irving isn’t saving the shaky guard play that this team projects to have.

[numnuts23]

Mavs at #19 in the athletic rankings post draft and most of free agency.

San Antonio at 20

Dallas Mavericks

Last ranking: 17
Free agency: PG Kyrie Irving (re-signed), SF Dante Exum (re-signed), C Dwight Powell (exercised option)
Additions: SF Cooper Flagg (draft), PG D’Angelo Russell
Departures: PG Spencer Dinwiddie

Midsummer summary: Dallas has something of a crowded roster and needs to shed a standard contract. But whoever that player might be, No. 1 pick Flagg replaces them. Automatic upgrade! The only other roster change of note is that Russell is here to replace Dinwiddie, which should be another upgrade for the Mavericks, although Russell had a forgettable season that saw him drop below 40 percent from the field for the first time in his career. It will be up to Flagg and Russell to run Dallas’ offense and find Anthony Davis, who is recovering from surgery to repair a detached retina. Elsewhere in the surgery department, center Dereck Lively II had foot surgery this month. While Davis and Lively should be ready for camp, it underscores the lack of availability both players have had. Availability, of course, is a major concern for Kyrie Irving as well, who re-signed about four months after tearing his ACL. There is more than enough size here, but Irving isn’t saving the shaky guard play that this team projects to have.

Wait, so adding Flagg and Russell - while losing only Dinwiddie drops them in the rankings?  Dang, didn't know Spencer was that highly thought of.