Summer League Game 1: 7pm CST on ESPN

[KillerLeft]

I don't understand what's going on with this fan base.  All of a sudden, everyone has Nico's vision of what positions look like.

This community has always had a size over skill fetish, going all the way back to the Yuku days. Maybe before that, but that's where I entered so I can't speak to anything prior.

[F Gump]

I was impressed (surprised) by CF's speed from one end of the court to the other. He looks like he would be slow, but he's not slow. It seemed like he was outrunning other players on the court, when there was a reason to do so.

[KillerLeft]

I was impressed (surprised) by CF's speed from one end of the court to the other. He looks like he would be slow, but he's not slow. It seemed like he was outrunning other players on the court, when there was a reason to do so.

Yes, it's clear that he's going to be lethal in offensive transition, with or without the ball. Regardless of whether or not he's ever the half court offensive initiator to any level of consequence, the ability to push the tempo, with the ball, is going to add a dimension to the team that hasn't been here in quite a while. And, if they can find 1-2 more who can do that (Kyrie can), Flagg is obviously able to put pressure on the rim in transition without the ball, too.

[DallasMaverick]

Yes, it's clear that he's going to be lethal in offensive transition, with or without the ball. Regardless of whether or not he's ever the half court offensive initiator to any level of consequence, the ability to push the tempo, with the ball, is going to add a dimension to the team that hasn't been here in quite a while. And, if they can find 1-2 more who can do that (Kyrie can), Flagg is obviously able to put pressure on the rim in transition without the ball, too.

Yeah, Flagg, Kyrie, PJ, and Lively make a pretty good transition team.

[KillerLeft]

Yeah, Flagg, Kyrie, PJ, and Lively make a pretty good transition team.

For sure. Gafford and AD, too, if they run hard enough. 

And, Russell and Thompson would both look great stepping into transition 3's, too.

[F Gump]

AD is a 5. 

But I am a realist. AD is a 4 because he wants to be a 4 and forcing him to be a 5 will either make him demand a trade or eventual apathy. 

So in this framework, AD is a 4. 

I would rather AD be a 5. Me stating AD is a 4 is solely because realistically he will play as a 4 so long as he wants to be a 4. Ignoring the AD motivation side of this is silly. This isn't NBA 2k where we can force players to do what we want all the time.

After Nico is fired (because that is PRIORITY 1) we can figure out whether to trade AD because he doesn't fit with the rest of the roster. In the meantime, it may be a mess. And isn't he too brittle to build the roster around, not being able to know if he will be able to play when you need him?

[mvossman]

After Nico is fired (because that is PRIORITY 1) we can figure out whether to trade AD because he doesn't fit with the rest of the roster. In the meantime, it may be a mess. And isn't he too brittle to build the roster around, not being able to know if he will be able to play when you need him?

In the short term this will settle itself out soon when one of the three centers get injured.

[Jmaciscool]

After Nico is fired (because that is PRIORITY 1) we can figure out whether to trade AD because he doesn't fit with the rest of the roster. In the meantime, it may be a mess. And isn't he too brittle to build the roster around, not being able to know if he will be able to play when you need him?

Realistically, when would you expect the Mavs to make a change at GM given that they haven't already? Or put another way, what do you think would have to happen in the season for them to make that move?

My concern is that they're giving Nico his full 3 years for his "vision" to play out since he's still here despite everything that went wrong last season.

[KillerLeft]

Realistically, when would you expect the Mavs to make a change at GM given that they haven't already? Or put another way, what do you think would have to happen in the season for them to make that move?

My concern is that they're giving Nico his full 3 years for his "vision" to play out since he's still here despite everything that went wrong last season.

I don't think he's getting fired at all. I think the entire organization has been quickly remade to suit him...players, head coach, front office, non-basketball operations office workers and now even the assistant coaching staff. They're all new. Ownership is new. I think the vast majority of them believe in him, honestly. I think there was initial mirroring of the fan backlash with much of the organization, but since then, those people have been fired, resigned or moved on in some way. That's why you're starting to hear them do interviews. 

Whatever the storm was, however bad it got for Harrison, I think he has survived it. I think he survived it by taking preemptive steps to secure and consolidate his power, and I almost respect the Machiavellian approach, honestly. Those who think it's a matter of time until he gets himself into hot water again will probably hold their breath until he gets fired, but I've made the decision not to allow that type of negativity to pollute my hobby. I didn't think Cuban or Donnie Nelson were particularly good at the GM thing, and there were many times I wished they'd get run out of town. Looking back now, more objectively, I think they both did some good things that we took for granted to complain about the bad things (and make no mistake - they did some dumb, dumb things). I doubt any of us would agree with 100% of what any GM does with the toy we all wish we could play with, but at the end of the day, this team has been almost completely turned over in the four years Harrison/Kidd have been here, and...they're better than I thought they'd be. Better than they would've been if Nelson/Cuban were still in charge, probably. I've decided that has to be enough for me.

As long as the team is competitive (or taking steps to trend towards competitive) and fun to watch, I'm in.

[Scott41theMavs]

I don't understand what's going on with this fan base.  All of a sudden, everyone has Nico's vision of what positions look like.

AD is a 5.  Cooper Flagg is a 4.  You don't draft a generational prospect and play him out of position so you can accommodate the rest of the roster.

2021's observations about Cooper's rebounding make me hope either 1) it's just a one-summer league game sample size with no bearing on reality, or 2) he's a 3.

[Jmaciscool]

I don't think he's getting fired at all. I think the entire organization has been quickly remade to suit him...players, head coach, front office, non-basketball operations office workers and now even the assistant coaching staff. They're all new. Ownership is new. I think the vast majority of them believe in him, honestly. I think there was initial mirroring of the fan backlash with much of the organization, but since then, those people have been fired, resigned or moved on in some way. That's why you're starting to hear them do interviews. 

Whatever the storm was, however bad it got for Harrison, I think he has survived it. I think he survived it by taking preemptive steps to secure and consolidate his power, and I almost respect the Machiavellian approach, honestly. Those who think it's a matter of time until he gets himself into hot water again will probably hold their breath until he gets fired, but I've made the decision not to allow that type of negativity to pollute my hobby. I didn't think Cuban or Donnie Nelson were particularly good at the GM thing, and there were many times I wished they'd get run out of town. Looking back now, more objectively, I think they both did some good things that we took for granted to complain about the bad things (and make no mistake - they did some dumb, dumb things). I doubt any of us would agree with 100% of what any GM does with the toy we all wish we could play with, but at the end of the day, this team has been almost completely turned over in the four years Harrison/Kidd have been here, and...they're better than I thought they'd be. Better than they would've been if Nelson/Cuban were still in charge, probably. I've decided that has to be enough for me.

As long as the team is competitive (or taking steps to trend towards competitive) and fun to watch, I'm in.

I don't think he's getting fired either which is why I was curious what it would take at this point for the Mavs to get rid of him.  He seems pretty well protected in a "well, if that didn't get you fired nothing will" type of situation, plus the other factors you mentioned.

I think you're right that he (and most GMs really) has done some good things and some bad, but for me my concern is that the bad has been really bad even outside of the big trade.  Getting rid of Casey Smith by itself should be a fireable offense.  There's also the Grimes trade which put the Mavs in a spot where there was actual talk of having to forfeit games due to lack of bodies because the Mavs literally had no means of adding temporary help based on the cap situation that Nico himself created.  If all of that together doesn't get him fired then I think he's here for at least another few years no matter what, and if so, what other pitfalls will that entail?  That's where my concern lies.

But I digress, that's not really the topic of this thread so apologies for derailing it a bit.  Last night was probably the most fun I've had watching a summer league game since...I don't know, DSJ was first drafted?  Cool to watch a player of Flagg's skillset and getting to think about how this is just the beginning.

[fifteenth]

After Nico is fired (because that is PRIORITY 1) we can figure out whether to trade AD because he doesn't fit with the rest of the roster. In the meantime, it may be a mess. And isn't he too brittle to build the roster around, not being able to know if he will be able to play when you need him?

I have ignored bball for a while, and more recently, only talked to myself about it. That FIRE NICO part has been mostly what myself and I have talked about. So, I'm really happy to see the reasonable and knowledgeable Mr. Gump talking about firing Nico.  

The Fire Nico part, to me, is connected with all the other topics. Seems like with an 18-year-old as the most important player, and the roster a mess because of ill-fitting parts, and a GM to fire, this season is absolutely the perfect time to listen to some Guns and Roses and have a little patience. I'm gonna have fun with this rebuild. Take my kids to games, keep the expectations reasonable, be happy if we're ever good again and enjoy watching the possibility of the 18-year-old growing into something great eventually. 

But y'all probably shouldn't listen to someone who ditches you guys every time things suck too bad to stick around.

[fifteenth]

Oh, I forgot something.

Who cares if the roster is a mess right now because this is one of the most obvious tanking seasons we've ever head. Right?

That was supposed to be part of the post above.

[fifteenth]

I don't think he's getting fired at all. I think the entire organization has been quickly remade to suit him...players, head coach, front office, non-basketball operations office workers and now even the assistant coaching staff. They're all new. Ownership is new. I think the vast majority of them believe in him, honestly. I think there was initial mirroring of the fan backlash with much of the organization, but since then, those people have been fired, resigned or moved on in some way. That's why you're starting to hear them do interviews. 

Whatever the storm was, however bad it got for Harrison, I think he has survived it. I think he survived it by taking preemptive steps to secure and consolidate his power, and I almost respect the Machiavellian approach, honestly. Those who think it's a matter of time until he gets himself into hot water again will probably hold their breath until he gets fired, but I've made the decision not to allow that type of negativity to pollute my hobby. I didn't think Cuban or Donnie Nelson were particularly good at the GM thing, and there were many times I wished they'd get run out of town. Looking back now, more objectively, I think they both did some good things that we took for granted to complain about the bad things (and make no mistake - they did some dumb, dumb things). I doubt any of us would agree with 100% of what any GM does with the toy we all wish we could play with, but at the end of the day, this team has been almost completely turned over in the four years Harrison/Kidd have been here, and...they're better than I thought they'd be. Better than they would've been if Nelson/Cuban were still in charge, probably. I've decided that has to be enough for me.

As long as the team is competitive (or taking steps to trend towards competitive) and fun to watch, I'm in.

Oh, dang. This is a pretty good argument that also goes against my hopes and dreams.  

[KillerLeft]

Oh, dang. This is a pretty good argument that also goes against my hopes and dreams.  

To be clear, I'm not arguing for Harrison to be fired or not. I'm just saying that I'm over the shock of the Luka trade, I'm over the PR disaster that followed, and I'm back to judging each individual move (and the state of the team in general) on its individual merits, with no expectation of something happening that I can't make happen. 

I actually think the team is in great shape in some key ways, and that's enough to create my usual preseason excitement. 

Good to see you around, pal!

[mvossman]

I don't think he's getting fired at all. I think the entire organization has been quickly remade to suit him...players, head coach, front office, non-basketball operations office workers and now even the assistant coaching staff. They're all new. Ownership is new. I think the vast majority of them believe in him, honestly. I think there was initial mirroring of the fan backlash with much of the organization, but since then, those people have been fired, resigned or moved on in some way. That's why you're starting to hear them do interviews. 

Whatever the storm was, however bad it got for Harrison, I think he has survived it. I think he survived it by taking preemptive steps to secure and consolidate his power, and I almost respect the Machiavellian approach, honestly. Those who think it's a matter of time until he gets himself into hot water again will probably hold their breath until he gets fired, but I've made the decision not to allow that type of negativity to pollute my hobby. I didn't think Cuban or Donnie Nelson were particularly good at the GM thing, and there were many times I wished they'd get run out of town. Looking back now, more objectively, I think they both did some good things that we took for granted to complain about the bad things (and make no mistake - they did some dumb, dumb things). I doubt any of us would agree with 100% of what any GM does with the toy we all wish we could play with, but at the end of the day, this team has been almost completely turned over in the four years Harrison/Kidd have been here, and...they're better than I thought they'd be. Better than they would've been if Nelson/Cuban were still in charge, probably. I've decided that has to be enough for me.

As long as the team is competitive (or taking steps to trend towards competitive) and fun to watch, I'm in.

If Nico survives it will be because he was very luck with the ping pong balls.  I wonder if the above would be your outlook if the lottery goes differently?

[KillerLeft]

If Nico survives it will be because he was very luck with the ping pong balls.  I wonder if the above would be your outlook if the lottery goes differently?

I might feel less complacent about it, but yeah. I think he had already survived at that point (before the lottery). I do think Flagg is going to make the process of team building in the near future significantly easier, and so the "what have you done for me lately" part of the job that every GM is always up against will be easier as a result, but the "wow, you really shouldn't have traded Luka" thing had come and gone, I think, at least for the people whose opinions matter.

[DallasMaverick]

If Nico survives it will be because he was very luck with the ping pong balls.  I wonder if the above would be your outlook if the lottery goes differently?

I remember some discussion about this right after the trade. Emotionally speaking, Nico can be vindicated by a championship.  Or, at the very least, for the Mavs to be substantially better than the Lakers for the next few years.

I think the Flagg good fortune maybe skews the equation a little bit. If the Mavs win a couple of championships, it can be in spite of Nico, rather than because of Nico. 

So perhaps it might actually be easier to fire him now.

[mvossman]

I might feel less complacent about it, but yeah. I think he had already survived at that point (before the lottery). I do think Flagg is going to make the process of team building in the near future significantly easier, and so the "what have you done for me lately" part of the job that every GM is always up against will be easier as a result, but the "wow, you really shouldn't have traded Luka" thing had come and gone, I think, at least for the people whose opinions matter.

I didn't make myself clear.  I was more curious about your willingness to give Nico a blank slate.  If we picked where we were supposed to and were staring at a short window with little hope and then nothing in the future, would still have this same overall attitue.

[KillerLeft]

If Nico survives it will be because he was very luck with the ping pong balls.  I wonder if the above would be your outlook if the lottery goes differently?

Also..."if?" No disrespect, I'm really asking: Do you an expect an imminent announcement that he's been fired? If so, when? Next week? Christmas Day? The All Star Break? The beginning of next summer? Pertaining to the public outcry, I'd say he has survived. Past tense. He's going to run this basketball team for another season, at least, and I'm not sure his seat is currently any hotter than any other GM's. He's probably not as secure as Brad Stevens or Sam Presti, but I'll bet his job is safer than Cronin's, whomever Vivek's puppet is in SAC, etc...maybe even the Ainges. Talk about failed plans...