The obvious, easy, logical KD trade not being discussed ....

[F Gump]

I don't recall seeing this idea discussed at all, but in some ways it might make a lot of sense.

How about a swap for Kevin Durant, and the Mavs send A Davis?

There's lots of ways to pick this apart, of course, but I can see so many possible pluses that I'm not sure it can be completely dismissed.

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.
2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.
3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
4 After July 1, their salaries are almost identical - which is huge trade-match help to both teams.
5 While we presume PHX would trade KD to start a rebuild of sorts and want lots of useful pieces and picks, I can see them valuing AD more highly than KD (and if we had a good negotiator, Mavs might be the ones getting extra assets in such a swap).
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters. But who will have more impact over the next several years? And perhaps the difference in ages is the part of the deal that lands extra assets for DAL. (One disclaimer on this point - in looking at PHX lack of picks and considering their other players, are there any real assets to be had? Although they have a MASSIVE payroll, they don't have much value to show for it -- their cupboard is really really bare.)

Thoughts?

[Scott41theMavs]

I don't recall seeing this idea discussed at all, but in some ways it might make a lot of sense.

How about a swap for Kevin Durant, and the Mavs send A Davis?

There's lots of ways to pick this apart, of course, but I can see so many possible pluses that I'm not sure it can be completely dismissed.

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.
2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.
3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
4 After July 1, their salaries are almost identical - which is huge trade-match help to both teams.
5 While we presume PHX would trade KD to start a rebuild of sorts and want lots of useful pieces and picks, I can see them valuing AD more highly than KD (and if we had a good negotiator, Mavs might be the ones getting extra assets in such a swap).
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters. But who will have more impact over the next several years? And perhaps the difference in ages is the part of the deal that lands extra assets for DAL. (One disclaimer on this point - in looking at PHX lack of picks and considering their other players, are there any real assets to be had? Although they have a MASSIVE payroll, they don't have much value to show for it -- their cupboard is really really bare.)

Thoughts?

If Nico is still the GM, no way he does this. And our new GM had better be a far better negotiator than Nico if we do such a thing, because there would have to be plenty of sweeteners coming back from PHX for it to be a fair trade.

[FireNicoHarrison]

I don't recall seeing this idea discussed at all, but in some ways it might make a lot of sense.

How about a swap for Kevin Durant, and the Mavs send A Davis?

There's lots of ways to pick this apart, of course, but I can see so many possible pluses that I'm not sure it can be completely dismissed.

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.
2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.
3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
4 After July 1, their salaries are almost identical - which is huge trade-match help to both teams.
5 While we presume PHX would trade KD to start a rebuild of sorts and want lots of useful pieces and picks, I can see them valuing AD more highly than KD (and if we had a good negotiator, Mavs might be the ones getting extra assets in such a swap).
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters. But who will have more impact over the next several years? And perhaps the difference in ages is the part of the deal that lands extra assets for DAL. (One disclaimer on this point - in looking at PHX lack of picks and considering their other players, are there any real assets to be had? Although they have a MASSIVE payroll, they don't have much value to show for it -- their cupboard is really really bare.)

Thoughts?

Is it a joke?

[khaled1987]

That will be a tough pill to swallow.

But I prefer it over mortgaging our future assets even more

[DanSchwartzgan]

 

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.

2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.

3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
 
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters.  

Thoughts?

The other difference, besides age, is contract length.  Are we presuming an extension for KD's age 38 and 39 years to match a 3 year Kyrie deal.  What are the mechanics of that...extend and trade?  If not, can it be done during the season after he arrives?  Isn't there a waiting period (too lazy to look it up).

I think it makes sense.  I don't think it happens because it flies in the face of everything Nico has said, but it does balance the roster better and makes the players we already have (Lively, Gafford and PJ) slot into their roles better.  I also think the O survives Kyrie's absence better with KD than it does with AD.

I think one of the tricks to this thing is getting someone who helps us during Kyrie's absence who is also valuable upon his return.  I've been in favor of Lonzo for Hardy/Powell (and he plays good D).  I wonder if Boston would consider turning Jrue into two players.  I'm guessing one would be Gafford (Is Horford coming back at age 40?).  They also need some salary relief, so someone else might go to a third team.

[ballsrchr]

I don't recall seeing this idea discussed at all, but in some ways it might make a lot of sense.

How about a swap for Kevin Durant, and the Mavs send A Davis?

There's lots of ways to pick this apart, of course, but I can see so many possible pluses that I'm not sure it can be completely dismissed.

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.
2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.
3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
4 After July 1, their salaries are almost identical - which is huge trade-match help to both teams.
5 While we presume PHX would trade KD to start a rebuild of sorts and want lots of useful pieces and picks, I can see them valuing AD more highly than KD (and if we had a good negotiator, Mavs might be the ones getting extra assets in such a swap).
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters. But who will have more impact over the next several years? And perhaps the difference in ages is the part of the deal that lands extra assets for DAL. (One disclaimer on this point - in looking at PHX lack of picks and considering their other players, are there any real assets to be had? Although they have a MASSIVE payroll, they don't have much value to show for it -- their cupboard is really really bare.)

Thoughts?

First I've heard about this...but it's not that far fetched.

AD is not somebody you'd want to build a team around.  He's a high functioning "robin" with robin skills.  He's also made out of tissue paper.  Always injured when you need him.

KD is also a high functioning "robin", but with Batman skills.  What would be the necessary motivation for KD to become a team leader and consistently use his Batman skills?  A lot of people don't know, including me.  As you note: age is a factor with KD.  He only has a few years left.

AD or KD leaves us with the same problem.  We would still need a Batman, a leader, a generational player.

BUT...if I had to choose...I'd jump all over this deal and roll with KD.

Unfortunately Nico has not yet been fired and Dumont is still the team owner(rep), so we don't have a "team" who can drive hardnose trades and negotiations for the good of the team.

[Kidnova]

I don't recall seeing this idea discussed at all, but in some ways it might make a lot of sense.

How about a swap for Kevin Durant, and the Mavs send A Davis?

There's lots of ways to pick this apart, of course, but I can see so many possible pluses that I'm not sure it can be completely dismissed.

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.
2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.
3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
4 After July 1, their salaries are almost identical - which is huge trade-match help to both teams.
5 While we presume PHX would trade KD to start a rebuild of sorts and want lots of useful pieces and picks, I can see them valuing AD more highly than KD (and if we had a good negotiator, Mavs might be the ones getting extra assets in such a swap).
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters. But who will have more impact over the next several years? And perhaps the difference in ages is the part of the deal that lands extra assets for DAL. (One disclaimer on this point - in looking at PHX lack of picks and considering their other players, are there any real assets to be had? Although they have a MASSIVE payroll, they don't have much value to show for it -- their cupboard is really really bare.)

Thoughts?

I don't see any way that AD is not a Mav next season so long as Nico is the GM.  He has hitched his cart to that horse and to change course would be admitting failure, which is something of which he's incapable.

[Nowitzki Way]

If they were to trade AD, i'd prefer we dont repeat history and target a single player we want (Durant).

If Davis doesnt fit with this roster i'm ok trading him. But shop him to the highest bidder. What would OKC give up with all of this picks and young players?

Would Houston want to put him next to Sengun? Could you get Eason and/or Whitmore? I know the salary matching could be a problem with a trade like this. But extract value from Davis if you trade him.

If Phoenix had a pick or two to go along with Durant, i'd be open to it.

[KillerLeft]

Durant is about 6 years older than Davis, who is about 6 years older than Doncic.

That's a move in the wrong direction, and Durant is probably the worst defender of the three (at this point). If "defense wins championships" I can't imagine how this swap would appeal to Harrison or anyone, really.

Yes, the current roster is short of offensive creation, but the real problem (and why I can believe that Kidd was frustrated by this trade, despite simultaneously believing he was aware and in favor of a potential Luka trade) is that the entire roster is set up (well) to play pick and roll basketball. That's who Lively and Gafford are, how Thompson was supposed to fit, how PJ Washington's offensive game has been shaped since his arrival, where Hardy's training time has been spent, etc, etc, etc. Amazingly, this Doncic trade has left the team without one, single pick and roll ball handler (that's definitely not Kyrie's game), and screening/playing off of a pick and roll guy isn't really what Davis does, either. He probably COULD play that way, but not from the 4, not with Lively or Gafford on the floor at the 5.

I gave the current regime all the credit in the world for cutting bait with Porzingis back in the day, despite the lackluster nature of that deal, because it was clear that the fit here was not a good one and it felt like removing him from the equation was the only way to move forward. But now, the team is right back in the same situation, more or less, albeit with a better player than Porzingis, and this time with Luka not in the mix.

If the plan is to replace Luka with another pick and roll initiator (probably the easiest way to fix this, given the rest of the roster's construction), then I question their ability to move forward with all three bigs. If the plan is to run the offense through Davis, fine, only my life force will drain quickly if so, as I don't believe his offensive game is of a quality to allow such an approach to be successful at the league's highest level.

Replacing Davis with Durant doesn't address these issues at all, imho, nor does adding Durant TO Davis, honestly. The team currently has no offensive identity, and frankly, it seems as though we're dealing with a GM who doesn't believe that's a hurdle that must be cleared, and possibly doesn't even recognize that such a hurdle even exists. Given the complaints we've (at least I've) had with Kidd's offensive system in the past, I think what we've got here is the perfect storm of ineptitude that will very quickly tear this team down.

I have no wish to add to the negativity that has been rampant since February, but...I just don't see a way forward that is going to compare favorably to where the team was just a year ago. I'm very sad about all of this.

[SleepingHero]

My biggest problem with this trade is that Nico has said AD was HIS guy.

If the end game was to get KD all along, why not just trade Luka for KD and avoid all of that?

[ThisIStheYear]

I don't recall seeing this idea discussed at all, but in some ways it might make a lot of sense.

How about a swap for Kevin Durant, and the Mavs send A Davis?

There's lots of ways to pick this apart, of course, but I can see so many possible pluses that I'm not sure it can be completely dismissed.

1 PHX needs a defender and interior player to complement Booker, while Mavs need a scorer to complement Gaff/Lively/PJW, and a star to carry the load until Kyrie heals.
2 The Mavs glut of non-shooters would be resolved.
3 Kyrie and KD reunited.
4 After July 1, their salaries are almost identical - which is huge trade-match help to both teams.
5 While we presume PHX would trade KD to start a rebuild of sorts and want lots of useful pieces and picks, I can see them valuing AD more highly than KD (and if we had a good negotiator, Mavs might be the ones getting extra assets in such a swap).
6 Yes, KD is older by 5 years, which matters. But who will have more impact over the next several years? And perhaps the difference in ages is the part of the deal that lands extra assets for DAL. (One disclaimer on this point - in looking at PHX lack of picks and considering their other players, are there any real assets to be had? Although they have a MASSIVE payroll, they don't have much value to show for it -- their cupboard is really really bare.)

Thoughts?

Phoenix would have to put in a lot more.  Otherwise, all you’ve effectively done is trade Luka for a lesser player not 6 years younger, but 11 years younger!!  That would be crazy. KD would just be salary match in this scenario, but the Suns don’t have anything else really to offer.  It doesn’t seem possible.

[Nowitzki Way]

My biggest problem with this trade is that Nico has said AD was HIS guy.

If the end game was to get KD all along, why not just trade Luka for KD and avoid all of that?

I like the idea of this topic. Do we trade AD for KD? But what you just said appears to be true. AD is Nico's guy 100%.

Him shopping Luka was just as much about getting Davs as it was about getting rid of Luka. Nico is insane. So i dont see him wanting to move AD for anything.

But with this roster constructed this way, AD doesnt fit. I think our only hope for redemption as a franchise is for Nico to go. Have an experienced GM put AD on the open market and get as much value as possilbe.

As long as Nico is here he'll have a point to prove with Davis and defense wins championship nonsense.

[Mavs2021]

My biggest problem with this trade is that Nico has said AD was HIS guy.

If the end game was to get KD all along, why not just trade Luka for KD and avoid all of that?

We have a winner.

[F Gump]

If they were to trade AD, i'd prefer we dont repeat history and target a single player we want (Durant).

If Davis doesnt fit with this roster i'm ok trading him. But shop him to the highest bidder.  What would OKC give up with all of this picks and young players?

Would Houston want to put him next to Sengun? Could you get Eason and/or Whitmore? I know the salary matching could be a problem with a trade like this. But extract value from Davis if you trade him.

If Phoenix had a pick or two to go along with Durant, i'd be open to it.

The problem with trading AD for multiple players is 
1 the Mavs already have too many players and not enough roster slots, and trading 1-for-3 or the like only makes that worse.
2 what they really need the most is a high end guy to drive the team, not some rotation regulars (which you have plenty of)

About PHX and picks, I agree that such a deal screams that the Mavs should be getting a pick or two, but I think PHX cupboard is really bare of picks, so not sure where to go from there. I don't think they have a single 1st they could trade, and maybe not any 2nds either.

[F Gump]

Durant is about 6 years older than Davis, who is about 6 years older than Doncic.

That's a move in the wrong direction, and Durant is probably the worst defender of the three (at this point). If "defense wins championships" I can't imagine how this swap would appeal to Harrison or anyone, really.

Yes, the current roster is short of offensive creation, but the real problem (and why I can believe that Kidd was frustrated by this trade, despite simultaneously believing he was aware and in favor of a potential Luka trade) is that the entire roster is set up (well) to play pick and roll basketball. That's who Lively and Gafford are, how Thompson was supposed to fit, how PJ Washington's offensive game has been shaped since his arrival, where Hardy's training time has been spent, etc, etc, etc. Amazingly, this Doncic trade has left the team without one, single pick and roll ball handler (that's definitely not Kyrie's game), and screening/playing off of a pick and roll guy isn't really what Davis does, either. He probably COULD play that way, but not from the 4, not with Lively or Gafford on the floor at the 5.

I gave the current regime all the credit in the world for cutting bait with Porzingis back in the day, despite the lackluster nature of that deal, because it was clear that the fit here was not a good one and it felt like removing him from the equation was the only way to move forward. But now, the team is right back in the same situation, more or less, albeit with a better player than Porzingis, and this time with Luka not in the mix.

If the plan is to replace Luka with another pick and roll initiator (probably the easiest way to fix this, given the rest of the roster's construction), then I question their ability to move forward with all three bigs. If the plan is to run the offense through Davis, fine, only my life force will drain quickly if so, as I don't believe his offensive game is of a quality to allow such an approach to be successful at the league's highest level.

Replacing Davis with Durant doesn't address these issues at all, imho, nor does adding Durant TO Davis, honestly. The team currently has no offensive identity, and frankly, it seems as though we're dealing with a GM who doesn't believe that's a hurdle that must be cleared, and possibly doesn't even recognize that such a hurdle even exists. Given the complaints we've (at least I've) had with Kidd's offensive system in the past, I think what we've got here is the perfect storm of ineptitude that will very quickly tear this team down.

I have no wish to add to the negativity that has been rampant since February, but...I just don't see a way forward that is going to compare favorably to where the team was just a year ago. I'm very sad about all of this.

You've expressed valid concerns - and that AD is not the right answer .... but you didn't answer your own question. If AD is not the answer, then you can make him expendable to some team who needs his skill set (because he is indeed highly talented) -- in which case, who are players you see that might be worth chasing?

The idea that Nico would be too doltish to do anything is not a real answer. Hopefully Nico is shown the door, to open up avenues to exploring ways to move forward.

[F Gump]

My biggest problem with this trade is that Nico has said AD was HIS guy.

If the end game was to get KD all along, why not just trade Luka for KD and avoid all of that?

1 Nico has to go, so even if he's as committed to AD as he says, it's solved by firing Nico first. But let's be real -- if Luka can be traded, so can AD. 
2 I don't think combining Luka and Booker would have been desirable for PHX. But they could like AD a lot imo. Also, the salary numbers for a trade match were very different - salaries change on July 1.
3 We can't go back and play what-if on what already was done. We have to move forward from where we are, and that's what I'm trying to think through (rather than be stuck in the past and be bound to any Nico thinking).

[KillerLeft]

You've expressed valid concerns - and that AD is not the right answer .... but you didn't answer your own question. If AD is not the answer, then you can make him expendable to some team who needs his skill set (because he is indeed highly talented) -- in which case, who are players you see that might be worth chasing?

The idea that Nico would be too doltish to do anything is not a real answer. Hopefully Nico is shown the door, to open up avenues to exploring ways to move forward.

I would very much like the answer to what I've been asking since the trade: "What is the PLAN on offense?" If/when there IS one, and if/when said plan is revealed to us, THEN I'll happily offer my opinion on how to best go about getting there. 

If you're asking what I, KL, would do, that's fairly irrelevant, but I'd jump into finding a pick and roll ball-handler to replace Luka with everything at my disposal. It would be tough, and they're not going to get someone as great as Luka, obviously, but it's not a super rare animal in the sport these days. Can they find someone at the Brunson/Haliburton level whose team would consider moving him? Probably not, so I'd go to the next tier down, and so on. Whatever level of player you land on, it would unquestionably require inclusion of either Lively or Gafford to get them, in which case Davis might actually start to look more like "the answer" on the resulting team. 

I don't really entertain the thought that Davis will be moved, whether or not a GM change is made, although I'd never have imagined the Luka deal we just saw, either, so...

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

AD for Booker is closer in value and age. Plus, Booker would have value after this next season.

[FireNicoHarrison]

AD for Booker is closer in value and age.  Plus, Booker would have value after this next season.

Phoenix will never trade his franchise player unless their GM is Pelinka buddy.

[KillerLeft]

AD for Booker is closer in value and age.  Plus, Booker would have value after this next season.

I'd obviously do that, but my guess is Harrison wouldn't. And besides, there's very little chance that a team would trade a franchise player in his 20's. Only the current Mavs regime is dumb enough to do that.