Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[KillerLeft]

I was thinking today...assuming the best case scenario for Luka's career (which I'm not sure I do, but is certainly possible), what's the closest thing to this trade in the history of sports?

I wonder what it was like when the Red Sox traded Babe Ruth. Was it this big of a deal at the time, or only in hindsight?

[cow]

I was thinking today...assuming the best case scenario for Luka's career (which I'm not sure I do, but is certainly possible), what's the closest thing to this trade in the history of sports?

I wonder what it was like when the Red Sox traded Babe Ruth. Was it this big of a deal at the time, or only in hindsight?

It could have the infamy of the Herschel Walker trade.

[SleepingHero]

I was thinking today...assuming the best case scenario for Luka's career (which I'm not sure I do, but is certainly possible), what's the closest thing to this trade in the history of sports?

I wonder what it was like when the Red Sox traded Babe Ruth. Was it this big of a deal at the time, or only in hindsight?

Given the Curse of the Bambino lasted 100 years, I think the trade had an extremely lasting negative impact on the franchise. 

As to whether or not Red Sox fans were upset at the time of the trade, you'd have to imagine they were. They had won the 5 of the first 15 world series, and Ruth had led them to 3 of those in 4 years. The new owner of the Red Sox was cash strapped and needed a way to pay the team, and the Yankees were happy to oblige.

There are more similarities with this Luka fiasco than I initially believed with the Curse of the Bambino. Now is Luka at the level of Babe Ruth? No.... But I mean who is? Can Luka reach a Jordan-esque career? I think he can.

The Donfather's Curse has a nice ring to it to be honest.

[Knutsen]

I was thinking today...assuming the best case scenario for Luka's career (which I'm not sure I do, but is certainly possible), what's the closest thing to this trade in the history of sports?

I wonder what it was like when the Red Sox traded Babe Ruth. Was it this big of a deal at the time, or only in hindsight?

I think the Mavs are too unimportant on a global scale - which Doncic in succession of Nowitzki could have changed by the way - so I don’t think in 20 or 30 years a lot of people will know or care how it went down. 

It‘s like Shaq leaving the Magic to go to the Lakers or Kareem leaving Milwaukee to do the same. Luka will become a Lakers legend and global icon and nobody except us will care about his first few years in a mediocre franchise. 

Best case from our side is that Luka will do a LeBron and will come back in the future because he has unfinished business here. The chances of that happening are minimal because he feels much more at home in Madrid and Slovenia, I guess.

[WildArkieBoy]

I think the Mavs are too unimportant on a global scale - which Doncic in succession of Nowitzki could have changed by the way - so I don’t think in 20 or 30 years a lot of people will know or care how it went down. 

It‘s like Shaq leaving the Magic to go to the Lakers or Kareem leaving Milwaukee to do the same. Luka will become a Lakers legend and global icon and nobody except us will care about his first few years in a mediocre franchise. 

Best case from our side is that Luka will do a LeBron and will come back in the future because he has unfinished business here. The chances of that happening are minimal because he feels much more at home in Madrid and Slovenia, I guess.

The door for a someday return has been shut and locked by Nico (not a winning "culture"), JKidd ("the player we traded") and Cuban ("I'd have gotten more for him").

wab

[HoosierDaddyKid]

It could have the infamy of the Herschel Walker trade.

No way!  It'll never be compared to that because of the haul the Cowboys got from the Vikings: five players, three first-round picks, and three second-round picks for Walker. The Mavs got AD and a poo-poo platter for trading away their generational talent. That trade set up the Cowboys for their 3 SB titles in 4 years in the 90s. The last time they were relevant.

[cow]

No way!  It'll never be compared to that because of the haul the Cowboys got from the Vikings: five players, three first-round picks, and three second-round picks for Walker. The Mavs got AD and a poo-poo platter for trading away their generational talent. That trade set up the Cowboys for their 3 SB titles in 4 years in the 90s. The last time they were relevant.

It doesn't need to be equal to be infamous though.  The Vikings were clowned on for decades after that trade and I think the same fate will happen to the Mavs.  With the way picks are given out like candy in the NBA these days, I'd say the Luka trade was pretty damned lopsided and will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history which will lead to it being remembered and referenced often.

[Jmaciscool]

It doesn't need to be equal to be infamous though.  The Vikings were clowned on for decades after that trade and I think the same fate will happen to the Mavs.  With the way picks are given out like candy in the NBA these days, I'd say the Luka trade was pretty damned lopsided and will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history which will lead to it being remembered and referenced often.

I'm sure there's some recency bias here, but the Luka trade was so memorable that it made the Ringer's list of top 100 sports moments this century.  Not just NBA, not just this year...all sports, all moments, for the past 25 years.

https://www.theringer.com/project/100-be...he-century

[mvossman]

It doesn't need to be equal to be infamous though.  The Vikings were clowned on for decades after that trade and I think the same fate will happen to the Mavs.  With the way picks are given out like candy in the NBA these days, I'd say the Luka trade was pretty damned lopsided and will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history which will lead to it being remembered and referenced often.

Especially if Luka gets a couple of rings with LA.

[F Gump]

Especially if Luka gets a couple of rings with LA.

Yep, "and then what happened" will have a considerable impact on the future narrative.

But that is going to be true from both directions. 

As you mention, if Luka wins a couple rings with LA, that validates the "Mavs messed up badly" narrative. The "bad trade" examples being offered - Herschel Walker trade, and Babe Ruth trade -- resonate because one side in the trade ended up being a MAJOR winner of multiple titles while the other was left in the dust.

But if Luka doesn't win any titles after all, then the narrative might shift considerably, even if Luka continues to bring entertainment value. And it all would look the exact opposite from what we think now, if the Mavs are the ones who somehow end up winning titles instead of Luka.

IOW it's not just what happens to Luka re titles in the next 3-4 years, but also what happens to the Mavs, that will shape the narrative that lasts.

[mvossman]

Yep, "and then what happened" will have a considerable impact on the future narrative.

But that is going to be true from both directions. 

As you mention, if Luka wins a couple rings with LA, that validates the "Mavs messed up badly" narrative. The "bad trade" examples being offered - Herschel Walker trade, and Babe Ruth trade -- resonate because one side in the trade ended up being a MAJOR winner of multiple titles while the other was left in the dust.

But if Luka doesn't win any titles after all, then the narrative might shift considerably, even if Luka continues to bring entertainment value. And it all would look the exact opposite from what we think now, if the Mavs are the ones who somehow end up winning titles instead of Luka.

IOW it's not just what happens to Luka re titles in the next 3-4 years, but also what happens to the Mavs, that will shape the narrative that lasts.

Sure.  But it should probably be pointed out that the Lakers were a play in team last season with two aging stars and limited assets, while the Mavs went to the finals.  The bar should be a lot higher for the Mavs.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Sure.  But it should probably be pointed out that the Lakers were a play in team last season with two aging stars and limited assets, while the Mavs went to the finals.  The bar should be a lot higher for the Mavs.

Agree.

This trade is so unbalanced that it has completely changed the fate of the franchises... Lakers were stucked in the mediocrity and Mavs had a brillant future ahead them.

Now it's the opposite.

[F Gump]

Sure.  But it should probably be pointed out that the Lakers were a play in team last season with two aging stars and limited assets, while the Mavs went to the finals.  The bar should be a lot higher for the Mavs.

Nope, not buying that. This trade will ultimately be judged by "who won titles as a result, and who didn't" and style points and excuses won't push the needle.

The prior year? It will be long forgotten. 

FWIW, neither team was the same team at the time of the trade as they had been the prior year. In fact, by the time of the trade, the Lakers were demonstrably looking to be the better team, looking like one of the top teams since the DFS trade, and still ascending, while Dallas had been sinking like a rock. LA was in 5th, having won 7 of their last 10, while the Mavs were struggling, in 9th and dropping, closer to 11th in the standings than to LA.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Mavs were 2th in the west when Luka went down.

[Chicagojk]

I have thought he has looked fine. Just not making his shots. I think he is getting into better shape and starting to move a little better despite being dinged. He still lacks any explosion at the rim and hopefully that is not gone. He is so good and smart and tough that he can still be one of the best in the league even if he is not right. Some interesting g comments though below.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/qyFKwEM6wB

[mvossman]

Nope, not buying that. This trade will ultimately be judged by "who won titles as a result, and who didn't" and style points and excuses won't push the needle.

The prior year? It will be long forgotten. 

FWIW, neither team was the same team at the time of the trade as they had been the prior year. In fact, by the time of the trade, the Lakers were demonstrably looking to be the better team, looking like one of the top teams since the DFS trade, and still ascending, while Dallas had been sinking like a rock. LA was in 5th, having won 7 of their last 10, while the Mavs were struggling, in 9th and dropping, closer to 11th in the standings than to LA.

The narrative probably will only look at titles because that's how narratives work.  The reality is it will be much harder for Luka to win a title with the Lakers (at least in the near term) than with the Mavs.  The Mavs were more talented and built specifically around Luka.  The Lakers were on a nice little run before the trade (ironically mostly without AD) and it continued after the trade.  The Mavs were sinking like a rock due to massive injuries (which was exacerbated by the trade).  

I don't really care what the narrative ends up being.  As a Mavs fan we already lost the trade.  I see very little hope this team can contend for a long, long time.  I was already skeptical before the Kyrie injury, but now its pretty much dead.  With Luka still on the roster I had reasonable hope for the foreseeable future.

[Radical Mavs]

Mavs were 2th in the west when Luka went down.

Wondering why it says this guy is banned...

[SleepingHero]

Wondering why it says this guy is banned...

He has routinely pushed the limits of decorum on the forum for the last 3 weeks.  Adding to that, he was being a constant negative force, never added anything to conversations other than a desire to be 100% correct, and was quick to tell others that they are dumb for thinking otherwise. 

He was warned on 9 different occasions to stop being crass and to chill out. He was also sent a nice private DM where he was asked to add to conversations, not steer every single one back to how the Mavs are the worst organization on Earth, the Mavs are done, and he is 100% right. 

For example, I have probably one of the bleakest outlooks of the franchise of anyone on the board right now. The Luka trade has turned my fandom into anger. It hurts me to watch games and to see Luka in a Laker jersey. I probably agreed with almost everything he said. AND YET! I do not have to repeat myself every single time I make a post to tell people the end is nigh and there's no point. And is one even a Mavs fan at that point? At some point, beating that dead horse gets so much that it actually takes away from everyone else trying to talk about the Mavs and turns this into a negative echo chamber where we are just repeating to ourselves how bad the Mavs are.

I don't like that. No one likes that. He was asked to stop doing that so many times over the last 3 weeks and he never listened. So we banned him. 

For anyone else, you will not be banned for posting negative stuff. Don't get me wrong. Dissent is okay and I enjoy reading differing opinions. This situation was an extreme example of negativity, and even then it took 3 weeks, almost 10 warnings, AND a private DM before he was banned. 

Please let me know if I've explained why he was banned properly and if you have any concerns you are always free to reply here or in my DM.

[Scott41theMavs]

He has routinely pushed the limits of decorum on the forum for the last 3 weeks.  Adding to that, he was being a constant negative force, never added anything to conversations other than a desire to be 100% correct, and was quick to tell others that they are dumb for thinking otherwise. 

He was warned on 9 different occasions to stop being crass and to chill out. He was also sent a nice private DM where he was asked to add to conversations, not steer every single one back to how the Mavs are the worst organization on Earth, the Mavs are done, and he is 100% right. 

For example, I have probably one of the bleakest outlooks of the franchise of anyone on the board right now. The Luka trade has turned my fandom into anger. It hurts me to watch games and to see Luka in a Laker jersey. I probably agreed with almost everything he said. AND YET! I do not have to repeat myself every single time I make a post to tell people the end is nigh and there's no point. And is one even a Mavs fan at that point? At some point, beating that dead horse gets so much that it actually takes away from everyone else trying to talk about the Mavs and turns this into a negative echo chamber where we are just repeating to ourselves how bad the Mavs are.

I don't like that. No one likes that. He was asked to stop doing that so many times over the last 3 weeks and he never listened. So we banned him. 

For anyone else, you will not be banned for posting negative stuff. Don't get me wrong. Dissent is okay and I enjoy reading differing opinions. This situation was an extreme example of negativity, and even then it took 3 weeks, almost 10 warnings, AND a private DM before he was banned. 

Please let me know if I've explained why he was banned properly and if you have any concerns you are always free to reply here or in my DM.

...and there was much rejoicing!!!

[Reunion Mav]

Yep, "and then what happened" will have a considerable impact on the future narrative.

But that is going to be true from both directions. 

As you mention, if Luka wins a couple rings with LA, that validates the "Mavs messed up badly" narrative. The "bad trade" examples being offered - Herschel Walker trade, and Babe Ruth trade -- resonate because one side in the trade ended up being a MAJOR winner of multiple titles while the other was left in the dust.

But if Luka doesn't win any titles after all, then the narrative might shift considerably, even if Luka continues to bring entertainment value. And it all would look the exact opposite from what we think now, if the Mavs are the ones who somehow end up winning titles instead of Luka.

IOW it's not just what happens to Luka re titles in the next 3-4 years, but also what happens to the Mavs, that will shape the 

I totally agree with this premise. I’m not sure which way this is going to go in the next few years. I have not given up watching my Mavs and our guys all the way to player number 17 are making the games worthwhile just by playing so hard. Some are taking advantage of their opportunities. 

Our losses which are certainly huge have hurt me too. It seems the karma cost of last year’s great playoff run followed by sickness and injury was unbelievable high. But we still have many talented and seemingly motivated players and I don’t rule out future success for us. I’m watching the Lakers the most I ever have in 55 years or more because they are interesting. I do root for Luka but not the Lakers. I could never do that. 
Maybe I’m just reasonably good at not losing hope. 
I do secretly hope that Karma gives us a great draft pick or a great longer term trade pickup. I’m kind of for the trade because we have all learned lottery luck is not allowed for us.