Trade & FA 2024-25:

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6068858...ba-rumors/


Cavs showing interest in Cam Johnson

[Knutsen]

Hypothetical trade idea, because it would probably be a multi-team deal, but just from a Mavs perspective:

Would you trade Kleber und Gafford for John Collins and go with a big rotation of Lively, Washington and Collins in the playoffs?

Or is there another big in the 25 million range you would trade both Gafford and Kleber for to get a more versatile player than Gafford and a more available and offensively capable guy than Kleber in one body you can play 30 minutes in the postseason?

Motivation comes from what we would need to compete with the Thunder and Celtics - and a guy able to put pressure on Holmgren or Porzingis and maybe get them in foul trouble and also able to punish them from three when they stay in the paint was my chain of thoughts.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6067459...de-rumors/


Mavs midseason and Gafford trade speculation.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I still think these are people's personal opinions and not the way Kidd coaches. I fully understand the reasons of a traditional center not playing in the playoffs, but I don't think Kidd coaches that way.

In a game where we were desperate for a win and playing a team that stretched the floor and was in the middle of raining threes on us. Kidd went with Kleber over Gafford down the stretch.

Gafford only played 20 minutes in a game without Lively and basically without Powell. He clearly knows Gafford can’t be on the floor too long before getting exposed against these types of opponents, so Kidd and I may share that personal opinion.

[Chicagojk]

I just think it is Cam Johnson who is the Mavs target. Although, he is a target for most of the league. IMO some of the names who have popped up are Mavs looking for avenues to get into the Cam Johnson sweepstakes. For instance, can we get a pick for Grimes that we can move along with other stuff for Johnson. Or, if we moved Gafford, what could we get back. Or would the Nets have interest in Gafford in a package. I believe the Nets have a ton of picks in this draft, so they probably are looking at future picks, so the Mavs are a little limited here. So maybe looking at future picks is also a consideration.

This is all speculation and I don't expect the Mavs to be able to gather the assets for Johnson without really losing 2-3 players/assets. I just feel they have been gauging interest to see if they could cobble a package together.

[F Gump]

ABOUT COLLINS ....

Gafford/Maxi is not a salary match for Collins.  Not close. 

Any trade of multiple players for 1 thins out the usable depth, which is a problem by itself. I have to think a DG/MK package has to bring two needed and reasonably-priced pieces, not 1.

I'd love to include Hardy but he really doesn't make enough salary to help on that part. 

Collins looks good on paper for the moment,  but is he any real answer?

Collins kills the payroll in paying such a huge amount to a backup, who merely solves a backup issue. 

Does Collins play defense? A wing defender is supposedly the goal. I continue to think DJJ is the solution, or his twin. But there must be defensive  studs who can do some scoring too that are under the general radar, and perhaps with a cheap contract as a result. Someone with some defensive feistiness. 

The last time Collins played on a team who cared about winning, they couldn't wait to get rid of him, and essentially paid Jazz to take him. 

Mavs finally got the payroll in line, and I think they will want to shop for players in their 10-15M price range that they pay their rotation players.

And for context - last year at this time, I loved the DG idea but PJW didn't excite me as a target (although as a GW replacement, it looked like an obvious upgrade so why not.)

[Chicagojk]

ABOUT COLLINS ....

Gafford/Maxi is not a salary match for Collins.  Not close. 

Any trade of multiple players for 1 thins out the usable depth, which is a problem by itself. I have to think a DG/MK package has to bring two needed and reasonably-priced pieces, not 1.

I'd love to include Hardy but he really doesn't make enough salary to help on that part. 

Collins looks good on paper for the moment,  but is he any real answer?

Collins kills the payroll in paying such a huge amount to a backup, who merely solves a backup issue. 

Does Collins play defense? A wing defender is supposedly the goal. I continue to think DJJ is the solution, or his twin. But there must be defensive  studs who can do some scoring too that are under the general radar, and perhaps with a cheap contract as a result. Someone with some defensive feistiness. 

The last time Collins played on a team who cared about winning, they couldn't wait to get rid of him, and essentially paid Jazz to take him. 

Mavs finally got the payroll in line, and I think they will want to shop for players in their 10-15M price range that they pay their rotation players.

And for context - last year at this time, I loved the DG idea but PJW didn't excite me as a target (although as a GW replacement, it looked like an obvious upgrade so why not.)

Yeah, I don't see the Collins fit for the reasons you mention. I understand some interest in him by Mavs fans though.

I do think, if a team can work out a deal with his salary, that he could be an option for a playoff caliber team.   For instance, Milwaukee.   Maybe the Lakers although they will probably look somewhere else.   It may be tough to find a place and with his salary it makes it more difficult.   You probably wouldn't need to give up many assets for him.  I will be interested to see what happens to him at the trade deadline.

I think him, Robert Williams, obviously Cam Johnson, maybe Kuzma, maybe Jeramy Grant, Zach Levine, Vucevic, Bruce Brown, Collin Sexton are all names to watch.  Besides Cam Johnson, all are flawed.  They are not great players but good players who could impact in the right role.

[mvossman]

Yeah, I don't see the Collins fit for the reasons you mention. I understand some interest in him by Mavs fans though.

I do think, if a team can work out a deal with his salary, that he could be an option for a playoff caliber team.   For instance, Milwaukee.   Maybe the Lakers although they will probably look somewhere else.   It may be tough to find a place and with his salary it makes it more difficult.   You probably wouldn't need to give up many assets for him.  I will be interested to see what happens to him at the trade deadline.

I think him, Robert Williams, obviously Cam Johnson, maybe Kuzma, maybe Jeramy Grant, Zach Levine, Vucevic, Bruce Brown, Collin Sexton are all names to watch.  Besides Cam Johnson, all are flawed.  They are not great players but good players who could impact in the right role.

Looking at fit, contract and asset cost I don't think any of these guys make much sense for Mavs.  Cam is scoring 20 points a game on insanely high efficiency right now.  He is going to be crazy expensive.

[Knutsen]

ABOUT COLLINS ....

Gafford/Maxi is not a salary match for Collins.  Not close. 

Any trade of multiple players for 1 thins out the usable depth, which is a problem by itself. I have to think a DG/MK package has to bring two needed and reasonably-priced pieces, not 1.

I'd love to include Hardy but he really doesn't make enough salary to help on that part. 

Collins looks good on paper for the moment,  but is he any real answer?

Collins kills the payroll in paying such a huge amount to a backup, who merely solves a backup issue. 

Does Collins play defense? A wing defender is supposedly the goal. I continue to think DJJ is the solution, or his twin. But there must be defensive  studs who can do some scoring too that are under the general radar, and perhaps with a cheap contract as a result. Someone with some defensive feistiness. 

The last time Collins played on a team who cared about winning, they couldn't wait to get rid of him, and essentially paid Jazz to take him. 

Mavs finally got the payroll in line, and I think they will want to shop for players in their 10-15M price range that they pay their rotation players.

And for context - last year at this time, I loved the DG idea but PJW didn't excite me as a target (although as a GW replacement, it looked like an obvious upgrade so why not.)

Thanks for your thoughts! 
His too big salary is the reason he could be on the market without costing huge future assets, so I‘m not sure it‘s a killer, especially since he‘s expiring next year if he opts in in the summer. 

I kind of like alle three combinations of 

Lively - Washington
Lively - Collins
Collins - Washington

and think they are more playable against the great teams like the Thunder, Celtics or Cavs in a playoff series than any combination with Gafford or Kleber. Deciding factor is if he has enough defense in him - PJ wasn’t known for his defense and was kind of an inefficient chucker on offense before he came to us, I hope for another surprise of this kind.

[Chicagojk]

Looking at fit, contract and asset cost I don't think any of these guys make much sense for Mavs.  Cam is scoring 20 points a game on insanely high efficiency right now.  He is going to be crazy expensive.

Yeah, I don't see fits either and think Cam Johnson will be too expensive.   Although, I can see some of the good not great teams look to add some of the guys mentioned and it could impact a playoff series.

[mvossman]

Thanks for your thoughts! 
His too big salary is the reason he could be on the market without costing huge future assets, so I‘m not sure it‘s a killer, especially since he‘s expiring next year if he opts in in the summer. 

I kind of like alle three combinations of 

Lively - Washington
Lively - Collins
Collins - Washington

and think they are more playable against the great teams like the Thunder, Celtics or Cavs in a playoff series than any combination with Gafford or Kleber. Deciding factor is if he has enough defense in him - PJ wasn’t known for his defense and was kind of an inefficient chucker on offense before he came to us, I hope for another surprise of this kind.

So what trade are you proposing for him?  We have to send out at least three players.  Can Utah handle taking on 3 for 1?  Regardless of whether Collins is a fit, his large salary makes it difficult to construct a viable trade.

[DallasMaverick]

One "feature" of the NBA is that good offensive players get paid more than good defensive players. So guys like John Collins, Cam Johnson, etc. will always have high salaries. Look at THJ.

Good offense also makes a player visible and "sparkly". We notice guys that can put the ball in the hoop. Great defensive players often fly below the radar, especially if they don't get a lot of steals and blocks.

For a team that has a couple of high-priced superstars who can reliably create their own shot, it seems to make more sense to focus on great defensive players who can (at least somewhat) contribute something offensively, rather than trying to find another offensive stud who's iffy on D.

[Knutsen]

So what trade are you proposing for him?  We have to send out at least three players.  Can Utah handle taking on 3 for 1?  Regardless of whether Collins is a fit, his large salary makes it difficult to construct a viable trade.

As I wrote in my initial post I don’t have a concrete trade in mind, I was just interested in what you guys are thinking from a pure basketball perspective if we‘d change Gafford and Kleber to Collins and merge their roles into one versatile 30 minute player aka a second PJ. Or if there‘s other guys that could fit that bill and also won’t cost the world.

As for this concrete example it would at least have to be a three way deal with a competitive team that could really use a starting center like Gafford - that’s not Utah, they try to lose and have Kessler. 

Let‘s for example go for the Magic after Moe Wagner‘s season ending injury - they’d trade Wagners‘s contract, another bigger salary and one or two assets to the Jazz and receive Gafford and Kleber for their playoff run and veteran leadership, Utah receives Powell from us, Wagner‘s expiring contract and the assets from the Magic and trades Collins to us. We sign a street free agent who gives us more than Kleber and Powell. If we can’t afford one we‘d have to make Morris a coach and sign someone serviceable for his salary.

[KillerLeft]

As I wrote in my initial post I don’t have a concrete trade in mind, I was just interested in what you guys are thinking from a pure basketball perspective if we‘d change Gafford and Kleber to Collins and merge their roles into one versatile 30 minute player aka a second PJ. Or if there‘s other guys that could fit that bill and also won’t cost the world.

I think that's overkill, personally. If there was a way (doesn't seem like there is) to change either Gafford or Kleber into Collins, you'd have my attention. The Mavs do need a plan for playing a little smaller/quicker/more skilled, but not at the total sacrifice of their ability to play big. Collins can play a little 5, sure, but he's smaller than Kleber, and honestly might be smaller than PJW.

[SleepingHero]

@esidery
The Kings are viewed as the current favorites to acquire Cam Johnson before the trade deadline.

Sacramento has their Plan A and Plan B trade options locked in: Johnson + John Collins.

If Brooklyn ends up accepting another offer, Sacramento is preparing to pivot to Collins.

[SleepingHero]

My current sneaky trade target is Javonte Green on the Pelicans. He makes barely 2 mil, but he knows how to defend and can actually defend up against guys like Tatum despite his size

[Knutsen]

I think that's overkill, personally. If there was a way (doesn't seem like there is) to change either Gafford or Kleber into Collins, you'd have my attention. The Mavs do need a plan for playing a little smaller/quicker/more skilled, but not at the total sacrifice of their ability to play big. Collins can play a little 5, sure, but he's smaller than Kleber, and honestly might be smaller than PJW.

Salary-wise that’s not possible - to get a 25 million player we’d need to stack Gafford, Kleber and Powell with Gafford being the only guy playing a lot of minutes and we‘re supposedly looking to trade him. Sure you could add Marshall or Grimes in a trade, but I‘d much rather trade away Kleber and Gafford, because I fear they won’t help us win the very big games in the playoffs.

[KillerLeft]

Salary-wise that’s not possible - to get a 25 million player we’d need to stack Gafford, Kleber and Powell with Gafford being the only guy playing a lot of minutes and we‘re supposedly looking to trade him. Sure you could add Marshall or Grimes in a trade, but I‘d much rather trade away Kleber and Gafford, because I fear they won’t help us win the very big games in the playoffs.

Yes, I know. And, I said as much in the post. I was just trying to answer your hypothetical. Even Gafford AND Kleber aren't enough, if we're being literal. See FGump's post above.

Collins won't be a Mav, basically, and I don't think it's realistic to come up with ways of trading both Gafford and Kleber, anyway. It's not going to happen.

[KillerLeft]

My current sneaky trade target is Javonte Green on the Pelicans. He makes barely 2 mil, but he knows how to defend and can actually defend up against guys like Tatum despite his size

Give me Herb Jones, even if it turns the whole season into a mulligan. Not sure if it's even legal to trade injured players, but if so, I'd take advantage of the opportunity to get that type of impact defender at the bottom of his value. I think that's a a finishing, championship move...just maybe not for this year, because he's hurt and all.

[LukaMVP]

Give me Herb Jones, even if it turns the whole season into a mulligan. Not sure if it's even legal to trade injured players, but if so, I'd take advantage of the opportunity to get that type of impact defender at the bottom of his value. I think that's a a finishing, championship move...just maybe not for this year, because he's hurt and all.

I totally agree on this one as long as a hypothetical herb Jones trade doesn't cost our 25' pick, so we can tank the rest of the season and get better prepared for the next season with another excellent rookie (lively caliber hopefully) from the 25' class that's said to be so stacked. we ain't winning the championship this season anyway and luka ain't even qualified for the considerations of any personal honors because he misses too many games (like Embiid of last season in some way). i'm not sure if herb is affordable for us though, even an injured herb Jones is probably still too expensive and I don't think a package featuring gafford would be enough, without giving up those invaluable picks.