Jimmy Butler Watch

[SleepingHero]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_...-heat-saga

From the article:

Here is where the rest of the NBA, especially teams that would have interest in trading for Butler, have their popcorn out. There is no executive in American sports like Pat Riley, as his Heat front office operates with a bluntness and strength toward star players that is not of this era.

When rival teams saw the statement Riley released last week openly declaring the Heat would not be trading their franchise player, there was widespread reaction to the unorthodox but classic Riley move -- and to what could come next in this saga.

"That is how you project strength as an organization," one general manager told me.

Added a prominent agent: "You cannot intimidate Pat Riley."

Riley has long been unafraid to tell his star players no. In 2010, when LeBron James hinted he wanted Riley to replace coach Erik Spoelstra, as told to author Ian Thomsen in the 2018 book "The Soul of Basketball," Riley shut him down in the moment. He let Dwyane Wade walk in a contract dispute. There are many other examples over the decades. This Butler situation is going to be another chapter.

"The Heat make mistakes and sometimes have issues with players just like everyone else," the GM said. "But they do not get pushed around."

For all the noise around a potential Butler trade, no one is more secure in their seat than Riley in Miami.

"You never want to get in a fight with someone who has nothing to lose," one rival executive told me. "And Pat has nothing to lose."

The other thing to consider: The argument of "it's better to get something than nothing" no longer applies in today's NBA. As we wrote last month, Miami does not want to be stuck with money it can't move on its books in a Butler trade.

[Chicagojk]

Butler suspended for 7 games. Now the Heat says due to his actions that they will listen for offers. It will be interesting if they look to clear cap or get an asset. If they want an asset, Kuminga is probably the best they could get. Still a lot of untapped potential there. Although, they are sort of boxing them in to a solid team and nothing more.

Would a team like Detroit be a candidate? Hardaway, Stewart and Tobias Harris? They would probably want to look for someone to take Harris, I would think.

I think it is going to be hard to find a attractive deal for Miami. They would probably prefer to clear the cap and then go big game hunting rather than trying to get a good, but not great young player. I would think.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

With this latest development, the Heat are going to get "Pennies on the Dollar" for Butler now. They just want to rid themselves of him at this point. He’s become a distraction, and like.was said above, nobody punks Pat Riley. He traded Shaq to Phoenix  and he let DWade walk when he was seeking a extension in his mid to late 30's.

[F Gump]

They would probably prefer to clear the cap and then go big game hunting rather than trying to get a good, but not great young player.  I would think.

If they trade Butler for nothing but expiring contracts, they will have room for a big MLE in the summer. That's not likely to land them very big game. So it's more likely they would want the best talent package they can land (and perhaps picks as well). That fits with the reporting that they are prioritizing "win now" options in trade talks.

So what about a team who has little to lose. For example, with all the rumors floating, does NO have a way to turn some of their players they would want to trade (like Ingram, McCollum, or even Zion?) into Butler? If they could, would they? Should they?

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Oh wow, 7 game suspension is SPICY.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

@ShamsCharania
The National Basketball Players Association will soon file a grievance to dispute the Miami Heat’s seven-game suspension of Jimmy Butler, sources tell me and
@WindhorstESPN
. The grievance process is lengthy, however, and will likely not stop suspension.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4327...ible-trade

https://www.si.com/nba/jimmy-butler-heat...-get-messy





Miami is looking to trade Butler ASAP..

[F Gump]

The bare truth and bottom line on the whole ruckus is well-stated in that Si piece by Mannix ...

On Thursday, Butler suggested his diminished role was the source of his dissatisfaction. “I want to hoop,” Butler said. Baloney. This is about money. Butler wants a contract extension. Miami doesn’t want to give it to him. At 35, Butler wants a nine-figure deal that will take him into retirement. The Heat don’t want to be the ones paying it.

Said a rival team executive, “There isn’t an easier situation to understand than this one.”

Butler can opt out of his contract after this season. But he doesn’t want to do that. He doesn’t want to leave $52 million on the table—the amount the Heat owe Butler in his option year—for free agency. To go where? Brooklyn? The Nets are tearing their team down to the studs. Detroit? The Pistons aren’t there yet. Washington? San Antonio? Which team with the cap room to sign Butler outright is making him an appealing offer?

The best chance Butler has to cash in is with a trade. He is eligible for a two-year extension that could pay him $111 million. He isn’t getting that in Miami, which is building around Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and Jaime Jaquez Jr.—all age 27 or younger. A new team could give him one.

[Mavs2021]

The bare truth and bottom line on the whole ruckus is well-stated in that Si piece by Mannix ...

On Thursday, Butler suggested his diminished role was the source of his dissatisfaction. “I want to hoop,” Butler said. Baloney. This is about money. Butler wants a contract extension. Miami doesn’t want to give it to him. At 35, Butler wants a nine-figure deal that will take him into retirement. The Heat don’t want to be the ones paying it.

Said a rival team executive, “There isn’t an easier situation to understand than this one.”

Butler can opt out of his contract after this season. But he doesn’t want to do that. He doesn’t want to leave $52 million on the table—the amount the Heat owe Butler in his option year—for free agency. To go where? Brooklyn? The Nets are tearing their team down to the studs. Detroit? The Pistons aren’t there yet. Washington? San Antonio? Which team with the cap room to sign Butler outright is making him an appealing offer?

The best chance Butler has to cash in is with a trade. He is eligible for a two-year extension that could pay him $111 million. He isn’t getting that in Miami, which is building around Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and Jaime Jaquez Jr.—all age 27 or younger. A new team could give him one.

What I have been saying since the new CBA was put into place. One big change will be the pay structure of veterans. You ain´t getting paid recklessly anymore. No chance yout get paid more annually than what your age is these days. I bet Miami was not even offering him 52M total over two years.

[Chicagojk]

What I have been saying since the new CBA was put into place. One big change will be the pay structure of veterans. You ain´t getting paid recklessly anymore. No chance yout get paid more annually than what your age is these days. I bet Miami was not even offering him 52M total over two years.

It is interesting.  I wonder if that is really limiting his market, in addition to satisfying Miami's wants.   It is about money for Butler and I am not sure how many teams would be willing to max him out to his liking on years and money.

[Mavs2021]

It is interesting.  I wonder if that is really limiting his market, in addition to satisfying Miami's wants.   It is about money for Butler and I am not sure how many teams would be willing to max him out to his liking on years and money.

Nobody will. This is like the Harden situation, where he eventually opted in, cause there was nothing for him in FA. Butler obviously is a more volatile character and when he found out the Heat (and literally nobody else) wants to pay a 36 year old 52M for an additional year, let alone multiple years, he started to throw his toys. Now the Heat simply said we won´t pay you at all. 

This brings us to an interesting situation with Kyrie. How much do you want to pay him? If he opts out of the last year of his deal (42M), I honestly think 120/3 is about it. That will take him to age 35. You don´t want to him more than 15-20M per year after that and no longer than two years.

[Chicagojk]

Sam vecenie did some potential trades on the Athletic. He said he wasn't crazy about any of them and it one of the reason why trading him is going to be so difficult. All were three team trades. Butler outcomes were Warriors, Rockets, Suns and Grizzles.

Grizzles is the most interesting one to me. Heat get Hardaway and two seconds from Pistons. Brandon Carke, Kennard, GG Jackson and a first from the Griz.
Pistons get Marcus Smart
Griz get Jimmy Butler and Alec Burkes.

A lot of reason not to like this for one/or all the teams and it is probably fantasy. It is sort of interesting though. Detroit seems like a weird outcome getting rid of an expiring Hardaway and a shooter plus two seconds to wind up with Marcus Smart.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

All these trade hypotheticals are nothing more than throwing some against the wall and hoping one sticks. Bottom line, The Heat are going to get less back than they think as what teams are going to take on a player who has turned into a malcontent? This movie has been played out before in Minnesota, Chicago, Philadelphia, and now Miami.

[Mavs2021]

All these trade hypotheticals are nothing more than throwing some against the wall and hoping one sticks. Bottom line, The Heat are going to get less back than they think as what teams are going to take on a player who has turned into a malcontent?  This movie has been played out before in Minnesota, Chicago, Philadelphia, and now Miami.

I think the real problem is that you have to be willing to pay (an opted out) Butler an insane amount of money. Otherwise there is no point trading for him at all. You trade him with the idea that he opts into the final year, he´ll just be starting toys again. There is really no good trade in this scenario.

[SleepingHero]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
According to @DKSportsbook, the Grizzlies’ odds to land Jimmy Butler in a trade have moved significantly from +3000 to +400.

Oddsmakers now view Memphis as the co-favorites alongside the Suns and Warriors to acquire Butler.

That’s a very notable shift in the betting market.

[SleepingHero]

Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42)
If the Heat let the Jimmy Butler $48.8M salary this season expire (that is assuming he walks away from $52.4M), they would be well positioned to add to their roster this summer.

Miami would be $47M below the tax and have access to:

- $14M non-tax midlevel
- $5.1M biannual

[F Gump]

Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42)
If the Heat let the Jimmy Butler $48.8M salary this season expire (that is assuming he walks away from $52.4M), they would be well positioned to add to their roster this summer.

Miami would be $47M below the tax and have access to:

- $14M non-tax midlevel
- $5.1M biannual

I think the Heat have already burned that bridge (of keeping Butler and then letting it play out in the summer). They don't want any part of having a disgruntled Butler on their team.

[DallasMaverick]

Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42)
If the Heat let the Jimmy Butler $48.8M salary this season expire (that is assuming he walks away from $52.4M), they would be well positioned to add to their roster this summer.

Miami would be $47M below the tax and have access to:

- $14M non-tax midlevel
- $5.1M biannual

I just don’t think Jimmy Butler is going to find any offer approaching the $52m option he holds for next year.

So any team that trades for him is basically getting a high-priced rental. And he’s pretty much guaranteed to pick up his option.

So who would want him?

Maybe a contender, who just needs that one guy to put them over the top.

A contender with a couple of bad contracts, and maybe draft capital to send back as a sweetener.

[KillerLeft]

I just don’t think Jimmy Butler is going to find any offer approaching the $52m option he holds for next year.

So any team that trades for him is basically getting a high-priced rental. And he’s pretty much guaranteed to pick up his option.

So who would want him?

Maybe a contender, who just needs that one guy to put them over the top.

A contender with a couple of bad contracts, and maybe draft capital to send back as a sweetener.

You might be right about him not getting the extension he wants, but there's no doubt that he's after an extension, and I bet there's a number far below that $52 million he'd be willing to accept next year in order to get a couple more guaranteed years at relatively big guaranteed money before next season starts. Can he get over $100 million for 3 years? I don't know, but my guess is that he will, and the team that trades for him will already have negotiated what they're willing to offer with his people long before we hear about the trade.

[F Gump]

While "we would do an extend-and-trade at numbers we can live with" seems like an obvious answer from a team with interest, I have a hard time envisioning how such a team could land a successful negotiation, because I don't think he would like the numbers.

The big obstacle there imo is that he has a PO for 52M. But he probably doesn't make sense to a team to extend at more than 60-70M for 2 years (and 2 years is the max length on an extension). I'm thinking that if he is hearing that, he doesn't opt out.

OTOH if he does opt out, he can get 3 years, and I can see the team that trades for him wanting to give him a 3 yr/100 m offer on a new deal -- but getting from here to there where he goes to a team whose extension numbers made him mad, so he did opt out, and then reupped with them after all, and everyone is happy would be tricky. Lots of ways for feelings to get hurt when it comes to messing with "my money".

ALL of that will factor into how aggressive the offers might be.

In any event, I see no way for Mavs to be involved. Too much salary to match.