Game 23: Dallas Mavericks (14-8) vs. Washington Wizards (2-17) | 6:00pm CST

[KillerLeft]

It's not just about shooting 3s.
Grimes overall game is better.

If you close out on Grimes, he can dribble pass you for a layup in traffic. The guy is nifty. A guy like Grimes (and Naji) would have been a weapon against Boston.

Green can do all of that, too. He just wouldn’t do it enough. I’d say the main difference (other than the chasm of difference between how well they play defense on-ball) can be boiled down to confidence. 

Maybe Green will figure it out on a bad team like Charlotte and end up being a desirable player, but I was pretty sick of waiting for that to happen here. I haven’t thought about him once this season until ChicagoJK just brought this up. Like literally, not once. DJJ, yes. I’ve checked on Hardaway’s numbers a couple of times. He’ll, I’ve missed Brunson more this year STILL than I’ve missed Green.

[myconsumerclub]

Green can do all of that, too. He just wouldn’t do it enough. I’d say the main difference (other than the chasm of difference between how well they play defense on-ball) can be boiled down to confidence. 

Maybe Green will figure it out on a bad team like Charlotte and end up being a desirable player, but I was pretty sick of waiting for that to happen here. I haven’t thought about him once this season until ChicagoJK just brought this up. Like literally, not once. DJJ, yes. I’ve checked on Hardaway’s numbers a couple of times. He’ll, I’ve missed Brunson more this year STILL than I’ve missed Green.

This team has me forgetting everyone but Brunson and I sort of do not miss his game that much right now  because I would choose to keep Irving over him and I think with Grimes Dinwiddie and Hardy off the bench we have enough firepower and a mix of youth to develop. Hell Gortman might step it up and develop into a nice option later on. 

What we need is for Kleeber to get healthy and stay healthy and redevelop his 3 pointer before the play offs. That might be a nice thing to see happen.

[F Gump]

" Did anyone ever figure out why the Wizards gave Holmes a 2 year/$25.9 mil contract? "

Financially neutral deal per this link.

What link? And what is that term supposed to mean?

That contract never made sense from a financial standpoint (it was just money clearly wasted, on a scrub barely worth the minimum), so the only explanation I can see is that the W's were hoping to create a trade chip.

I believe they have already stripped down the roster to try to land two elite picks, in 2025 and 2026 drafts, which fits the fact that as long as they land in top 10 picks in 2025 and top 8 in 2026, they only have to give a 2nd to NY rather than their 1st. 2025 is supposed to be a strong draft, especially at the top (don't know about 2026). In the meantime they want and need more FRPs, not talent.

Holmes contract and WAS cap situation lends itself to using that contract as an easy way for a team to swap a big ongoing salary to WAS for one that basically vanishes in the summer (only 250K guaranteed). They will not demand talent -- in fact, won't want it, and would flip it to someone else if they had it because they want to lose again next season -- but instead will be looking for picks. They'd like to be Presti East for a couple years, I think, and collect picks rather than wins.

[Mavs2021]

They are a success, then!! They built this team to try to get the pick to draft Cooper Flagg, if they can.

If they are awful (and they are), they have done exactly what they set out to do.

I guess so. Maybe the build up process is a little long, since they have not had a 50 wins season since the 1970s.

[Mavs2021]

What are their minute totals?

513 for Green vs. 408 for Grimes.

What´s so annoying is his inconsistency. He always has these 2-3 games scoring outbursts, that make you think now it´s happening. This season he has scored a total of 95 points in his best seven games  (13.6 PPG) and another whooping 12 points total in his worst seven games (1.7 PPG).

[SleepingHero]

When I wrote this I had totally forgotten that Washington just drafted Sarr. Bey might be gettable, actually, but I don’t know if he’s someone I would want for the Mavericks.

Coming off of an ACL surgery is risky business for wings. I mean, its becoming less and less of a career ending type injury, but I'd rather have Omax get minutes honestly.

[The Jom]

What link? And what is that term supposed to mean?

That contract never made sense from a financial standpoint (it was just money clearly wasted, on a scrub barely worth the minimum), so the only explanation I can see is that the W's were hoping to create a trade chip.

I believe they have already stripped down the roster to try to land two elite picks, in 2025 and 2026 drafts, which fits the fact that as long as they land in top 10 picks in 2025 and top 8 in 2026, they only have to give a 2nd to NY rather than their 1st. 2025 is supposed to be a strong draft, especially at the top (don't know about 2026). In the meantime they want and need more FRPs, not talent.

Holmes contract and WAS cap situation lends itself to using that contract as an easy way for a team to swap a big ongoing salary to WAS for one that basically vanishes in the summer (only 250K guaranteed). They will not demand talent -- in fact, won't want it, and would flip it to someone else if they had it because they want to lose again next season -- but instead will be looking for picks. They'd like to be Presti East for a couple years, I think, and collect picks rather than wins.

Not sure what happened to my link. Human error probably. I’m trying again here: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/06/rich...zards.html

[Halfnir]

Game and Dirkie threads are misnumbered by the way. They should be game 23. (there are 2 "game 21" threads for different games)

[ballsrchr]

Game and Dirkie threads are misnumbered by the way. They should be game 23. (there are 2 "game 21" threads for different games)

I noticed that on the last game I think.  I just follow the numbers on the game thread.  Hopefully it is right now.  I have no way of going back and changing the numbers.  Just a small snafu from guys who are over worked and under appreciated (not me!...them!).

The Wizards and Mavs game was 23? Damn! We'll get it straightened out...I hope!

[Chicagojk]

513 for Green vs. 408 for Grimes.

What´s so annoying is his inconsistency. He always has these 2-3 games scoring outbursts, that make you think now it´s happening. This season he has scored a total of 95 points in his best seven games  (13.6 PPG) and another whooping 12 points total in his worst seven games (1.7 PPG).

That is an eye popping stat.   Just wild.

I like Green and I think there is a role for him in the league....maybe even a really nice role.  This opportunity in Charlotte is really important to him.   He needs to find a way to even out those valley's.  Scoring is never going to be his number 1, but he needs to be better there.   You can have 7 games where you average less than 2 pts per game.   The other thing is defense.  I have no idea how he is playing defense this year, but it always appeared to be missing something there.  He checked a lot of the boxes, but just didn't stop many people often.   If he can improve those two areas, he will stick around and make really nice money.   He needs to show progress in Charlotte though.   People move on pretty quick.

[michaeltex]

I like Green's energy and desire, but he's not going to make a mark in the NBA. At least he's had a few seasons to earn more money than many of us ever will.

But when he couldn't even see the court during the summer of 2000, Olympics + qualification games, I lost all hope for him becoming a significant contributor.

[Winter]

I'm pretty sure when Green is about 29 years old and has about 10 years in the league, someone on this board is going to say, "He'll figure it out. He's still young."

[KillerLeft]

I'm pretty sure when Green is about 29 years old and has about 10 years in the league, someone on this board is going to say, "He'll figure it out. He's still young."

Interesting jab, considering every single post over the last page and a half is saying the exact opposite of that.

[Winter]

Interesting jab, considering every single post over the last page and a half is saying the exact opposite of that.

No, not really. 

Here's an example. Many of us, including you and I, were over the moon for Prosper. But well into his sophomore year now, and the thrill has pretty much worn off I think. I'm not sure he can make it. I don't know about you, but for me, I don't have a lot of hope that he's a good rotation player here. The NBA game seems pretty difficult for him. And I sense this board seems to have a grip on that. I'm disappointed - probably you are too - but we recognize not much is happening with him. It's not a perfect comparison, but you catch my drift.

Green was different. Some people had a real love affair with his potential... every game was a yo-yo, and discussions about him never seemed to match his performance. I took a beating in a lot of discussions. ...And we're still talking about him now even though he's with another team. 

I know we fan-boy some players... that's what we do sometimes on message boards. But the opinion on Green had a strange shelf-life for me. The expiration date was a lot shorter I thought.

That's how I saw it.

[KillerLeft]

No, not really. 

Here's an example. Many of us, including you and I, were over the moon for Prosper. But well into his sophomore year now, and the thrill has pretty much worn off I think. I'm not sure he can make it. I don't know about you, but for me, I don't have a lot of hope that he's a good rotation player here. The NBA game seems pretty difficult for him. And I sense this board seems to have a grip on that. I'm disappointed - probably you are too - but we recognize not much is happening with him. It's not a perfect comparison, but you catch my drift.

Green was different. Some people had a real love affair with his potential... every game was a yo-yo, and discussions about him never seemed to match his performance. I took a beating in a lot of discussions. ...And we're still talking about him now even though he's with another team. 

I know we fan-boy some players... that's what we do sometimes on message boards. But the opinion on Green had a strange shelf-life for me. The expiration date was a lot shorter I thought.

That's how I saw it.

Sure, but what I'm saying is that everyone still on this board (pretty much) has weighed in on Green over the past 24 hours, and nobody is defending him. Not one person, unless I missed it. So, it seems silly to carpet bomb "this board" with that "I told you so" style jab, since the 3-4 people who defended Green to the end all seem to be gone. 

And honestly, the only thing we (speaking for myself, and, I believe, most of "this board") really regret about moving Green to Charlotte is that it kind of appears that Dan has gone with him, lol.

[Mavs2021]

Sure, but what I'm saying is that everyone still on this board (pretty much) has weighed in on Green over the past 24 hours, and nobody is defending him. Not one person, unless I missed it. So, it seems silly to carpet bomb "this board" with that "I told you so" style jab, since the 3-4 people who defended Green to the end all seem to be gone. 

And honestly, the only thing we (speaking for myself, and, I believe, most of "this board") really regret about moving Green to Charlotte is that it kind of appears that Dan has gone with him, lol.

My regret is getting Klay Thompson instead of a youth- and useful player.

People always say small moves don´t matter (mostly in regards to the draft), but imagine if we did not secure the "throw away" Grimes from Detroit and pivoted to sign Marshall. We don´t nail Lively and get Washington (and Gafford) everybody would be calling Omax another 1st round draft bust.

Our off-season would be graded on the Cuban scale: 

Lost DJJ arguing over peanuts.
Signed old fart Klay Thompson
Signed old fart Spencer Dinwiddie
Re-signed Jaden Hardy
Nepotism drafted Melvin Ajinca
 
Classic Mark Cuban off-season. 

That´s why I was always so hard on the Mavs FO. Every detail matters, cause if you approach every transaction and draft pick with the utmost professionalism, you can make enough good moves to overshadow the bad moves. In that case you will also earn the benefit of the doubt that maybe our FO really thinks Ajinca was the best prospect at #52 and not just the French brother of Satnam Singh and a favour to the nephew of former Maverick Alex Ajinca.

[michaeltex]

I forgot about Ajinca. His stats make him look like the French version of OMax, though.

[Chicagojk]

I don't have an issue with Ajinca. It was a late second round pick. I would have drafted Cam Spencer, but I can see Ajinca at least fits the prototype. I like the overseas gamble of a guy who has the right measurables and maybe skill set. A young guy you keep overseas and maybe he never comes over. Although maybe he turns into something in two years. You never know. I have no idea if he can play, but like the low cost gamble.

[DallasMaverick]

Sure, but what I'm saying is that everyone still on this board (pretty much) has weighed in on Green over the past 24 hours, and nobody is defending him. Not one person, unless I missed it. So, it seems silly to carpet bomb "this board" with that "I told you so" style jab, since the 3-4 people who defended Green to the end all seem to be gone. 

And honestly, the only thing we (speaking for myself, and, I believe, most of "this board") really regret about moving Green to Charlotte is that it kind of appears that Dan has gone with him, lol.

I'd like to defend Green.

He's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[mvossman]

No, not really. 

Here's an example. Many of us, including you and I, were over the moon for Prosper. But well into his sophomore year now, and the thrill has pretty much worn off I think. I'm not sure he can make it. I don't know about you, but for me, I don't have a lot of hope that he's a good rotation player here. The NBA game seems pretty difficult for him. And I sense this board seems to have a grip on that. I'm disappointed - probably you are too - but we recognize not much is happening with him. It's not a perfect comparison, but you catch my drift.

Green was different. Some people had a real love affair with his potential... every game was a yo-yo, and discussions about him never seemed to match his performance. I took a beating in a lot of discussions. ...And we're still talking about him now even though he's with another team. 

I know we fan-boy some players... that's what we do sometimes on message boards. But the opinion on Green had a strange shelf-life for me. The expiration date was a lot shorter I thought.

That's how I saw it.

Need to be careful on where exactly the goalposts are.  My recollection is that you wanted to cut bait with him before his third season.  That is where you got hammered.  No question he was worth the 3-4 million he got paid that season.  He may have gotten overpaid on his extension (although we did not need to send assets out with that contract) but he is still a useful NBA player.  He is just not as useful as the guys we replaced him with.