Trade & FA 2024-25:

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

This may be shouting into the abyss, but...

Has anyone ever done a comparison of player salary vs. revenue generated?

Embiid's extension averages $64.33M/year. That's about $784.5K/game. I have no idea how or if this affects the PHL tax situation.

Does the incremental revenue received over an average replacement validate the investment? Or more basically, does he (or any max $$$ level player, Luka included) generate enough basketball-related revenue to cover their salary? Are they, in effect, taking revenue generated by lower status players as compensation for perceived "star power"? Is their "worth" an artificial construct based on marketing and an owner's desire to be perceived as a "winner"?

I realize that this sounds somewhat Marxist, but my compensation is based on the value I bring to my company through increased revenue or improved margins. Real world measures that are then added to non-numerical evaluations (working safely, plays well with others, responsive to customers, etc.) to determine a value to the organization. Plus, it's the time of year when I have to do all this for my team in preparation for next year, so I'm in that frame of mind.

I guess the only commonality is that both organizations value retention of skills and experience, so (in theory) compensation has to be competitive with similar positions in the marketplace. Only professional contracts are usually public knowledge, so it's easy to compare between teams. Private business, not so much other than broad generalities.

Pro athletics is far too dynamic to make a linear connection between player contract cost and revenue.  Owners are in it for the Balance Sheet, not P&L.  As long as the operations is somewhat self funding and they're not hemorrhaging money, it's all about the wealth.

[michaeltex]

It's a rich man's world...

[SleepingHero]

This may be shouting into the abyss, but...

Has anyone ever done a comparison of player salary vs. revenue generated?

Embiid's extension averages $64.33M/year. That's about $784.5K/game. I have no idea how or if this affects the PHL tax situation.

Does the incremental revenue received over an average replacement validate the investment? Or more basically, does he (or any max $$$ level player, Luka included) generate enough basketball-related revenue to cover their salary? Are they, in effect, taking revenue generated by lower status players as compensation for perceived "star power"? Is their "worth" an artificial construct based on marketing and an owner's desire to be perceived as a "winner"?

I realize that this sounds somewhat Marxist, but my compensation is based on the value I bring to my company through increased revenue or improved margins. Real world measures that are then added to non-numerical evaluations (working safely, plays well with others, responsive to customers, etc.) to determine a value to the organization. Plus, it's the time of year when I have to do all this for my team in preparation for next year, so I'm in that frame of mind.

I guess the only commonality is that both organizations value retention of skills and experience, so (in theory) compensation has to be competitive with similar positions in the marketplace. Only professional contracts are usually public knowledge, so it's easy to compare between teams. Private business, not so much other than broad generalities.

Without access to Philly's records, it's hard to accurately gauge the true ROI a star player has on a team. But we can get close. 

NBA teams income comes from merchandise, concessions, ticket sales, but most importantly advertising and broadcast rights. 

The current deal this past year brought in an estimated 2.6 billion dollars. That alone split amongst the 30 teams is about 87 million per team. 

On top of that, there are licensing rights with Nike that brings in an additional 1 billion per year. (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1305...-deal-nike). That's another 34 million per team. So just from broadcast rights and licensing, each NBA team is making about 125 mil rounded. 

These deals are only valuable because of star players that people want to watch. Philly has 21 nationally televised games which is 7th in the league for next year. Meaning they are a marquee draw for the league. 

Now we add in tickets+concessions. Philly was number 3 in the NBA in terms of attendance with an average of 19,218 seats filled, basically 95% filled every night according to ESPN. 

A Sports Media company called OhBets ran a study on the average ticket cost, concessions, and parking for each team so we'll use that as reference. The average ticket according to them (I couldn't find a median price) was $264. For concessions lets tack on another $15.28 per person (price of 1 beer and hot dog) and we'll add in parking for $30. That brings our total cost for an average ticket for 1 person at $310. At that price this means each game brings in about ~6 mil for the 76ers. A total season of 41 games would be $244 mil. A website called statista has PHI 2022-23 season revenue listed at a total $376mil. If we add in our broadcast rights+ticket sales we're pretty close to that. Then we factor in merchandise and jersey sponsorships and we're pretty close to that ~$380 mil estimate. 

Now lets compare this to a bottom dweller team with no marketable stars. Charlotte! They ranked 29th in total attendance by number at 17,358 according to ESPN, but their stadium only fills 17,500. According to the Charlotte Observer quoting that same OhBets study, the average ticket cost was $169. The price of a beer and hotdog was $14.08. And parking was $15. That brings the total for 1 person at $198.37. At that price each game would bring in ~3.5 mil, and an entire season they'd make $141 mil. 

That is nearly a 100 mil difference. The total difference in ticket sales per game is about 1860 (with only 142 being unsold seats). Let's just say CHA builds an extra 1860 seats, even then they'd only make an additional 15mil. Add in merchandise (Lamelo Ball was their best selling jersey which was 13th), I'll venture to say the difference having a star player is about $100mil a year. 

So Joel Embiid is worth easily his contract and PHI gets a positive return just by having him on the team.

[michaeltex]

Without access to Philly's records, it's hard to accurately gauge the true ROI a star player has on a team. But we can get close. 

NBA teams income comes from merchandise, concessions, ticket sales, but most importantly advertising and broadcast rights. 

The current deal this past year brought in an estimated 2.6 billion dollars. That alone split amongst the 30 teams is about 87 million per team. 

On top of that, there are licensing rights with Nike that brings in an additional 1 billion per year. (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1305...-deal-nike). That's another 34 million per team. So just from broadcast rights and licensing, each NBA team is making about 125 mil rounded. 

These deals are only valuable because of star players that people want to watch. Philly has 21 nationally televised games which is 7th in the league for next year. Meaning they are a marquee draw for the league. 

Now we add in tickets+concessions. Philly was number 3 in the NBA in terms of attendance with an average of 19,218 seats filled, basically 95% filled every night according to ESPN. 

A Sports Media company called OhBets ran a study on the average ticket cost, concessions, and parking for each team so we'll use that as reference. The average ticket according to them (I couldn't find a median price) was $264. For concessions lets tack on another $15.28 per person (price of 1 beer and hot dog) and we'll add in parking for $30. That brings our total cost for an average ticket for 1 person at $310. At that price this means each game brings in about ~6 mil for the 76ers. A total season of 41 games would be $244 mil. A website called statista has PHI 2022-23 season revenue listed at a total $376mil. If we add in our broadcast rights+ticket sales we're pretty close to that. Then we factor in merchandise and jersey sponsorships and we're pretty close to that ~$380 mil estimate. 

Now lets compare this to a bottom dweller team with no marketable stars. Charlotte! They ranked 29th in total attendance by number at 17,358 according to ESPN, but their stadium only fills 17,500. According to the Charlotte Observer quoting that same OhBets study, the average ticket cost was $169. The price of a beer and hotdog was $14.08. And parking was $15. That brings the total for 1 person at $198.37. At that price each game would bring in ~3.5 mil, and an entire season they'd make $141 mil. 

That is nearly a 100 mil difference. The total difference in ticket sales per game is about 1860 (with only 142 being unsold seats). Let's just say CHA builds an extra 1860 seats, even then they'd only make an additional 15mil. Add in merchandise (Lamelo Ball was their best selling jersey which was 13th), I'll venture to say the difference having a star player is about $100mil a year. 

So Joel Embiid is worth easily his contract and PHI gets a positive return just by having him on the team.

Great summation!

I also propose that PHI has the arena size (and extra revenue) because of the market size, as compared to Charlotte. Per the US Census site Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington MSA is 6,241,00 compared to Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia MSA of 2,756,000. Household income is about 9% higher in PHL vs CHA although cost of living is only about 5% higher. 

Apart from that, PHL has a history of fielding a competitive team. When was the last time PHL was dismissed before the season even started? You would have to go back to the "process" days under Hinkle, but even then they ended up with future stars like Embiid and Saric, the teams just didn't play well (possibly on purpose). Before and after, PHL was usually a team worthy of at least a mention for Eastern conference contention. This allowed them to price admission, merch, concessions, etc., as premium prices.

Contrast to CHA whose history is basically that of two expansion franchises. The original one moving to NO and becoming the Pelicans and the second starting as the CHA Bobcats before renaming back to the Hornets. Their biggest splash was getting Jordan as an investor/owner. With neither history nor accomplishments, CHA doesn't have much leverage when pricing their product. I suspect that the quality of the opponent does more to sell tickets than most of the home team roster. Kind of like the pre-Dirk Mavs.

I wonder if DAL could make a case for a cut of their gate because Luka, Kyrie and the boys put more butts in seats? I mean, the players have to pay income taxes on games played in other states, why not get incremental income as well? Wouldn't that be a mess to administer?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Good article on NBA revenue...

https://sportsnaut.com/where-does-nba-re...e_vignette

[SleepingHero]

Chris Haynes (@ChrisBHaynes)
Free agent wing Nassir Little has reached an agreement on a one-year deal with the Miami Heat, league source tells me.


Ira Winderman (@IraHeatBeat)
Have confirmed. Surprising because not eligible for two-way deal due to NBA tenure. Even more surprising because Heat cannot add another deal without going into second tax apron . . . unless someone currently under guarantee is on the way out.

Ira Winderman (@IraHeatBeat)
But with non-guaranteed deal, Heat have several pro-rated days of pay with such a 15th man before entering second apron. So Heat could start with camp max of 15 under standard contract, thus delaying later moves. Lots of moving parts apparently at play.

[SleepingHero]

@ShamsCharania
Just In: The Memphis Grizzlies are waiving former NBA MVP Derrick Rose, sources tell @TheAthletic

[michaeltex]

IMO, Derrick Rose is the prototype for what Ja Morant aspires to be, just without all the wannabe-gangsta crap. Extremely athletic, high flying point guard/scoring machine. I have wondered for a few years now how he will hold up physically as he's (obviously) not a big guy and he's going to get pounded trying to make some of the plays he attempts. Like where he thinks he can out fly everybody and just dunk in their face, but we all know there is payback coming at some point. Unless you have more meat on your bones, for example, James Hardin, it's hard to last in the NBA.

In that vein, I wonder about some of the tall, slim young players and their durability. Webby made it through is first season OK, but staying outside more than normal for a 7+ footer probably helps. Chet Holmgren is another one. He's already missed a season with injury and he's only been out of school two years. I had some concerns about Lively in this area, but he seems to have added a little mass since getting drafted, so I'm hopeful he will hold up better.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/PrioritySports/status/1839335689500147742

Phoenix signs Frank Kaminsky

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/PrioritySports/status/1839312465173295167


Pistons sign Lamar Stevens.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1838978054518981052


Warriors signing Kevin Knox.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1838935491619475843

Former Warrior Lester Quinones signs a two-way deal with Philly.

[SleepingHero]

Lots of small finishing moves before training camp starts.

Cannot wait for preseason+regular season to get underway.

[Chicagojk]

Sort of weird that Fultz hasn't signed anywhere yet.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Sort of weird that Fultz hasn't signed anywhere yet.

Very.  I thought he's had a lot of value as a defensive-minded guard, prob off the bench.

[KillerLeft]

Welp, I think we should've seen this one coming. I knew it was an only a matter of time before both Towns and Randle were traded, but I admit it never occurred to me that they might be traded for each other. I like it a lot more for NY than I do for Minnesota. 

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1839854538288750975
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1839854538288750975

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/18398545382887

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Welp, I think we should've seen this one coming. I knew it was an only a matter of time before both Towns and Randle were traded, but I admit it never occurred to me that they might be traded for each other. I like it a lot more for NY than I do for Minnesota. 

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1839854538288750975
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1839854538288750975

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/18398545382887

This might be a deal that helps both teams.  Minnesota has more depth now, and Towns can play center since Mitchell Robinson is out until the first of the year.

[Chicagojk]

In theory, I really like it for the Knicks. Having Towns at center with Jalen and all their wings looks amazing. Come back to me though when Towns goes 3-15 in a playoff game.

Not sure I understand with Minny. I like Dante but he played his best ball with Jalen. Randle is good but he will also look for a big payday. Plus, how long will Gobert continue his strong play? It does get them out of the potential bad KAT contract though. I guess the talent in the trade is pretty neutral, but I think I would push the wolves back a tad in the west.


So I like the trade for the Knicks…in theory

[Chicagojk]

Somewhere Woj is asleep right now with his phone is the other room.

Would have really like to get Zach Lowe’s thoughts. I think I will skip out on the Kendrick Perkins thoughts

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Somewhere Woj is asleep right now with his phone is the other room.

Would have really like to get Zach Lowe’s thoughts.  I think I will skip out on the Kendrick Perkins thoughts

I'm pretty sure Zach will weigh his thoughts on his podcast. I'll be looking for it.