AROUND the NBA:

[RGP1981]

This board desperately needs a sarcastic laughing smiley.

Haha, yeah, and also an :O smiley. 

Think I'd bump Dwyane Wade down to 13th on that list TBH. Giannis is 11th. CP3 is 15th. Kawhi is 16th. I'd move them up after KD/Dirk/Nash, and Wade goes below them.

Oh, and Luka is 25th but I think he should be bumped up by quite a few places already.

I also don't understand how Pau Gasol made the list at #24, over guys like Luka, Kyrie, Klay, Embiid, Pau Pierce, Pau George, Booker, Lillard, Tatum, Brown, or even Gobert, Billups and Iguodala. :O They probably included him in the 25 to keep the Spanish bball fans happy.

[dirkfansince1998]

ESPN's Top 25 NBA players of the 21st century.

1) Lebron
2) Kobe
3) Steph
4) Duncan
5) Shaq
6) KG
7) Jokic
8) Wade
9) Durant
10) Dirk

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4061...st-century

Seems like they read my post. "Mamba mentality" "Our generations Jordan" instead of a stat or impact metric based case. Fun part is that compared to past lists he is overtaking players. I wonder why...

For comparisation. Top 10 players of the decade (Hollinger in december 2009).

1)Duncan
2)Garnett
3)Kobe
4)O'Neal
5)Nowitzki
6)LBJ
7)Nash
8)Billups
9)Wade
10)Pierce

To sum it up. There is no consistent criteria on any given ESPN list.

[RGP1981]

Seems like they read my post. "Mamba mentality" "Our generations Jordan" instead of a stat or impact metric based case. Fun part is that compared to past lists he is overtaking players. I wonder why...

For comparisation. Top 10 players of the decade (Hollinger in december 2009).

1)Duncan
2)Garnett
3)Kobe
4)O'Neal
5)Nowitzki
6)LBJ
7)Nash
8)Billups
9)Wade
10)Pierce

To sum it up. There is no consistent criteria on any given ESPN list.

Well, let's see now. Since December 2009, when Hollinger made this list you have provided... Kobe won his 5th ring... and lead his team to his 2nd back-to-back or repeat, which Duncan and KG could not do even once.

I wonder if that had anything to do with it, lol. Those seem like pretty, pretty good reasons to put him over them both. Most other Top 10 candidates managed to repeat at least once (MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Kobe, Russell, Shaq, Steph).

Here's another reason. Since December 2009, Kobe also lead Team USA to its 2nd consecutive Gold medal in 2012... after they failed to win in his absence, i.e., when the team was under Tim Duncan's leadership in 2004. Just thought that one up since the Olympics are on-going.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/DuaneRankin/status/1167703838612062208


Vintage Dr J..

[dirkfansince1998]

Well, let's see now. Since December 2009, when Hollinger made this list you have provided... Kobe won his 5th ring... and lead his team to his 2nd back-to-back or repeat, which Duncan and KG could not do even once.

I wonder if that had anything to do with it, lol. Those seem like pretty, pretty good reasons to put him over them both. Most other Top 10 candidates managed to repeat at least once (MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Kobe, Russell, Shaq, Steph).

Here's another reason. Since December 2009, Kobe also lead Team USA to its 2nd consecutive Gold medal in 2012... after they failed to win in his absence, i.e., when the team was under Tim Duncan's leadership in 2004. Just thought that one up since the Olympics are on-going.

I guess Duncan didn't win anything post 2009...

[khaled1987]

https://x.com/ClutchPoints/status/181729...70?ref_src=


Shaq is cold...

Nah, the same could be said about many players. The sport is built on physical advante

[Knutsen]

Nah, the same could be said about many players. The sport is built on physical advante

Especially coming from Shaq, who maybe profited more from his physical advantage than any other player since Wilt.

[RGP1981]

I guess Duncan didn't win anything post 2009...

Well, the title Duncan won in 2013-14 came when he was the 4th option behind Kawhi, Parker and Ginobili... on yet another Spurs team that was stacked beyond comprehension. That Spurs team was way more stacked than even the Heatles, who got so much flak for stacking the deck. I bet on the Spurs that season, did you? Granted, the Spurs built their stacked team themselves... but credit for that goes to the Spurs FO, and not to Tim Duncan. I think Tim Duncan is the most over-rated (i.e., lately) of the Top 10 candidates, because except for a few years between 1998-99 and 2002-03, his teams were almost always the most stacked in the NBA. Once again, I say that as someone who has followed the NBA closely for decades and who judges talent/fit of rosters and lineups based on actual talent/fit at the time, and not on names/numbers alone. If you feel that his teams weren't the most stacked of the 2000s, then perhaps, you have something internal to correct in terms of how you evaluate talent/fit. Maybe that's also why I do quite well in draft season.

By 2010, Kobe had slammed the door shut on being greater than Duncan... but in recent years, a small community of Duncan Donuts seems to be trying to make a case for the opposite on pseudo-intellectual bball boards, like the RealGM PC forum. I guess his fans realize that Duncan's place in the Top 10 is under heavy attack by the next generation (like Steph, Jokic, Giannis, Luka)... so their way of dealing with this, is to try and falsely push Duncan into Top 5 territory, where they feel that his place in the Top 10 might be more safe. It won't be that way though.

By the way, I noticed that you have not answered the 2 questions I posed earlier.

1) If Duncan was so great of an anchor on defense, then why did the Spurs DRTGs dip so much when Bowen retired and only come back up again when Kawhi took wings?

2) What are your thoughts on Kobe scoring at a higher percentage from "post-moves" than Duncan did? Post-moves were supposed to be Duncan's bread and butter, because Duncan was a big and he couldn't shoot from distance. Yet, you have a little 6'5" guard who was more efficient in the post than Duncan, a 7-footer?

Can you answer these 2 questions without deflecting to whatever else Kobe may or may not have been?

I will also throw in a bonus question...

3) Why did Duncan not win diddly-squat between 2006-07 and 2013-14 despite having Top 5 PG in Tony Parker, Top 5 SG in Ginobili, and if Duncan was supposedly as great himself? Something doesn't add up! I mean, you can't ask for more than a Top level PG and Top level SG (both of whom were well-sized for their position, quick, not negatives on defense, and could create for others and themselves, and shoot from distance)... as well as have a great offensive/defensive Center, right?? Some numpties even have the nerve to say that Ginobili was as good as Kobe (in an effort to make Duncan look better). So then, what is Duncan's excuse for not winning in those years, when he himself is supposed to be greater than Kobe, AND he had Ginobili who was as great as Kobe too, and then he had Tony Parker on top of that? Duncan Donuts talk themselves into literal circles, and don't even realize it.

And Duncan should not even have won in 2006-07, if not for the MAJOR helping hand that the NBA gifted him against the Suns (who should have been rightful winners of that 2006-07 ring). If not for this helping hand, my question would have been, "why did Duncan not win diddly between 2004-05 to 2013-14", and been a lot worse for him too.

Anyway, I think that if Dirk had Duncan's Spurs teams, Dirk would have had 5 rings too. If KG had Duncan's teams, KG would have had 5 rings as well. And both Dirk and KG would have entertained us a heck of lot more with those teams than Duncan did. That's why I have Duncan, Dirk and KG in the same grouping in my all-time ranking.

[dirkfansince1998]

Well, the title Duncan won in 2013-14 came when he was the 4th option behind Kawhi, Parker and Ginobili... on yet another Spurs team that was stacked beyond comprehension. That Spurs team was way more stacked than even the Heatles, who got so much flak for stacking the deck. I bet on the Spurs that season, did you? Granted, the Spurs built their stacked team themselves... but credit for that goes to the Spurs FO, and not to Tim Duncan. I think Tim Duncan is the most over-rated (i.e., lately) of the Top 10 candidates, because except for a few years between 1998-99 and 2002-03, his teams were almost always the most stacked in the NBA. Once again, I say that as someone who has followed the NBA closely for decades and who judges talent/fit of rosters and lineups based on actual talent/fit at the time, and not on names/numbers alone. If you feel that his teams weren't the most stacked of the 2000s, then perhaps, you have something internal to correct in terms of how you evaluate talent/fit. Maybe that's also why I do quite well in draft season.

By 2010, Kobe had slammed the door shut on being greater than Duncan... but in recent years, a small community of Duncan Donuts seems to be trying to make a case for the opposite on pseudo-intellectual bball boards, like the RealGM PC forum. I guess his fans realize that Duncan's place in the Top 10 is under heavy attack by the next generation (like Steph, Jokic, Giannis, Luka)... so their way of dealing with this, is to try and falsely push Duncan into Top 5 territory, where they feel that his place in the Top 10 might be more safe. It won't be that way though.

By the way, I noticed that you have not answered the 2 questions I posed earlier.

1) If Duncan was so great of an anchor on defense, then why did the Spurs DRTGs dip so much when Bowen retired and only come back up again when Kawhi took wings?

2) How is it that Kobe is inefficient, but yet he scored at a higher percentage from "post-moves" than Duncan did? Post-moves were supposed to be Duncan's forte, as a big, right? Yet, you have a little 6'5" guard who was more efficient in the post than Duncan, a 7-footer?

Can you answer these 2 questions without deflecting to whatever else Kobe may or may not have been?

I will also throw in a bonus question...

3) Why did Duncan not win diddly-squat between 2006-07 and 2013-14 despite having Top 5 PG in Tony Parker, Top 5 SG in Ginobili, and if Duncan was supposedly as great himself? Something doesn't add up! I mean, you can't ask for more than a Top level PG and Top level SG (both of whom were well-sized for their position, quick, not negatives on defense, and could create for others and themselves, and shoot from distance)... as well as have a great offensive/defensive Center, right?? Some numpties even have the nerve to say that Ginobili was as good as Kobe (in an effort to make Duncan look better). So then, what is Duncan's excuse for not winning in those years, when he himself is supposed to be greater than Kobe, AND he had Ginobili who was as great as Kobe too, and then he had Tony Parker on top of that? Duncan Donuts talk themselves into literal circles, and don't even realize it.

And Duncan should not even have won in 2006-07, if not for the MAJOR helping hand that the NBA gifted him against the Suns (who should have been rightful winners of that 2006-07 ring). If not for this helping hand, my question would have been, "why did Duncan not win diddly between 2004-05 to 2013-14", and been a lot worse for him too. Anyway, I think that if Dirk had Duncan's Spurs teams, Dirk would have had 5 rings too. If KG had Duncan's teams, KG would have had 5 rings as well. And both Dirk and KG would have entertained us a heck of lot more with those teams than Duncan did. That's why I have Duncan, Dirk and KG in the same grouping in my all-time ranking.

I answered them. You just choose to dismiss it. I can ignore condescending BS and personal attacks but I am not wasting my time. Go ahead and copy/paste some more. Maybe someone else is willing to have this discussion with you.

[RGP1981]

I answered them. You just choose to dismiss it. I can ignore condescending BS and personal attacks but I am not wasting my time. Go ahead and copy/paste some more. Maybe someone else is willing to have this discussion with you.

You didn't actually answer them. And I don't do personal attacks, talking about a game or players is never more important than the person I'm entering into a discussion with. Anyway, I don't think there is an answer for the questions I have asked that won't end with Kobe was a greater bball player than Duncan, so I respect your answer and gave you a +1 for replying too.

[KillerLeft]

You didn't actually answer them. And I don't do personal attacks, talking about a game or players is never more important than the person I'm entering into a discussion with. Anyway, I don't think there is an answer for the questions I have asked that won't end with Kobe was a greater bball player than Duncan, so I respect your answer and gave you a +1 for replying too.

That can be true, from a certain POV, but your style is a little on the attacking side, just as a default. You're not offending anyone to the point that would prompt intervention, but you're also not making a lot of friends, and unlike Reddit, "friends" is kind of what we do here. Just food for thought.

[SleepingHero]

This board desperately needs a sarcastic laughing smiley.

I actually tried to add some new smilies to the board 2 months ago in the dead of night and broke the entire board for like 2 minutes.

So yeah... lets stick to gifs for now 




(P.S. How to do it. Go to your favorite gif site. Right click on the actual gif you want and click "copy image address". Very important to do the copy image address and NOT copy image. Then come back to the board and go to the full reply section. Click on the "insert an image" and paste your gif address there and viola. You have a usable gif!)

(P.P.S the "insert an image is the 14th one in if you count left to right, starting from the "Bold" button. Looks like a little blue window with a plus sign in the corner)

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I actually tried to add some new smilies to the board 2 months ago in the dead of night and broke the entire board for like 2 minutes.

So yeah... lets stick to gifs for now 




(P.S. How to do it. Go to your favorite gif site. Right click on the actual gif you want and click "copy image address". Very important to do the copy image address and NOT copy image. Then come back to the board and go to the full reply section. Click on the "insert an image" and paste your gif address there and viola. You have a usable gif!)

(P.P.S the "insert an image is the 14th one in if you count left to right, starting from the "Bold" button. Looks like a little blue window with a plus sign in the corner)

Who knew? Thanks for the info.

[LukaMVP]

spurs had a solid core in duncan, manu and Parker for those glorious years, with which they won three titles in 5 years. and they always found the right role players to facilitate their runs without overpaying, thanks to their FO. also don't forget they had one of the all time greatest coaches. if mavs had such a great coach instead of don Nelson and Avery for those years I guess Dirk would've got a few more rings as well. spurs had competent rosters for those years for sure, but in terms of talent level I don't think ours were much worse tbh. RC was probably the best coach we had in our franchise history (still not as good as Greg though), but the team during his tenure was apparently not the best talent-wise. RC was stuck in a mediocre/rebuilding team that we were for the majority of 2010s after the championship, and if we had him as coach for the prior decade we would've probably done a better job securing our 06 championship, at the very least.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1821222081167814941


Former NBA player Jeremy Lamb retires.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1821222081167814941


Former NBA player Jeremy Lamb retires.

Really good college player. I thought he could be another Rip Hamilton. Seemed to lack the fire to be great.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://x.com/FredKatz/status/1821624372303692119


https://x.com/IanBegley/status/1821619471066521736


Jalen Brunson was named team captain and wants to
finish his career with the Knicks.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4085...-minnesota


Former NBA player wins GOP senate primary.

[RGP1981]

This is the first time ever that I'm more excited for the restart of the WNBA season after their break for the Olympics, than I am for the start of the NBA season.

#CaitlinClarkFever

[DallasMaverick]

This is the first time ever that I'm more excited for the restart of the WNBA season after their break for the Olympics, than I am for the start of the NBA season.

#CaitlinClarkFever

Who’s that?