Trade & FA 2024-25:

[ThisIStheYear]

Klay is a no for me. He’s always been a bit overrated to me and now he’s old. Would rather have DJJ or Marshall.

[omahen]

Thanks for posting this. 

The emboldened is something I'm not sure it's very smart to allow Stein to say publicly, from the Mavs' POV, even if it's true.

Everything shows Mavs are all in on Thompson (assuming Stein knows what he is saying and I have very high respect for Stein):
- he will start
- top priority before DJJ
- Marshal back-up for DJJ

Message to DJJ. We like you, appreciate you, but there are limits to that. Also, if Thompson is a starter, how much do you really want to pay for his back-up?

[Scott41theMavs]

Thanks for posting this. 

The emboldened is something I'm not sure it's very smart to allow Stein to say publicly, from the Mavs' POV, even if it's true.

It would be just like Mark Cuban to be stuck several years ago and say, "Oh, yeah, screw DJJ, let's get Klay! So much better on offense and just as good on defense! In 2024!"

But I thought Mark Cuban was no longer making decisions for the Mavs.

[KillerLeft]

This comes from my personal valuation of Klay. Since no salary is coming their way, I think the cost for their facilitation should be minimal. Cash, fake second or similar. They do Klay a solid, they get a nice TPE and keep their flexibility moving forward.

If I am Mavs, no way I would be taking the risk with Klay, his age, decline and his salary and pay a FRP for it. That would be a bad deal imho.

We are agreed, then. I like that the deal we're expecting has lowered from low $20 m's to start to that exception number. I like him at that number a lot - it's literally Hardaway money. But, I don't like the idea of giving up significant draft capital, even if it's only the 2025 1st. I know that pick will suck (we hope) but I'd still draw the line there on this one. 

Doesn't it kind of feel like that's gong to be the price, though? I hate that I expect that, but I do. 

Either way, this had all better include DJJ.

[KillerLeft]

It would be just like Mark Cuban to be stuck several years ago and say, "Oh, yeah, screw DJJ, let's get Klay! So much better on offense and just as good on defense! In 2024!"

But I thought Mark Cuban was no longer making decisions for the Mavs.

All I can say is that shooting really, really was an issue. I think letting Jones go completely over this is an overreaction (would WAY do that for pre-injury Thompson, obviously) but they must REALLY think this is going to help the offense. 

I also think it's a little telling that so many teams are treating him like a premier free agent. Some of it is probably reputation, sure, but I think the league values him more than fans do. 

At least at the numbers we're talking now, we know he won't be impossible to move if it doesn't work out. 

Nothing to do now but wait.

[KillerLeft]

Klay is a no for me. He’s always been a bit overrated to me and now he’s old. Would rather have DJJ or Marshall.

If it's Thompson and NOT Jones, I'm going to really be bummed. 

If it's both, and Thompson is in that $16 million range we're discussing to start, and GS doesn't tax the Mavs like the state of California would to facilitate the sign and trade, I'll be optimistic about this.

[omahen]

Another take we can have from the Klay story. Seems like Mavs don't see DJJ as a starter here when building a contending team. We can assume they are not stupid and they have seen Klay play and know his stats. Still, they think he is a better fit at starter than DJJ. They asked for KCP, they asked for Grant,...

So, if DJJ is seen hopefuly (by Mavs) as a bench guy, how much are you really willing to pay? Wouldn't anything over 10 mil be a significant overpay for that role?

[KillerLeft]

Everything shows Mavs are all in on Thompson (assuming Stein knows what he is saying and I have very high respect for Stein):
- he will start
- top priority before DJJ
- Marshal back-up for DJJ

Message to DJJ. We like you, appreciate you, but there are limits to that. Also, if Thompson is a starter, how much do you really want to pay for his back-up?

And to me, this kind of speaks to the plans (or lack thereof) they have for Quentin Grimes. If he's not going to play this position at all, he's not going to play very much. I know some have said he's more of a 2 for them, but that puts him not only behind Luka and Kyrie, but also competing with Hardy and Exum for a role. 

I don't really like how this seems to be shaping up, but we'll see!

[KillerLeft]

Another take we can have from the Klay story. Seems like Mavs don't see DJJ as a starter here when building a contending team. We can assume they are not stupid and they have seen Klay play and know his stats. Still, they think he is a better fit at starter than DJJ. They asked for KCP, they asked for Grant,...

So, if DJJ is seen hopefuly (by Mavs) as a bench guy, how much are you really willing to pay? Wouldn't anything over 10 mil be a significant overpay for that role?

Idk...they paid Green more than that. I get that they're trying to fix that mistake as we speak, but I can see the 3rd forward (can play both positions) having a big enough role to warrant the MLE. I hope he's closer to $10 million, of course, but I wouldn't be mad at the full exception.

[LukaMVP]

no way would we pay a first round pick from a stacked draft for him tbh.

[omahen]

And to me, this kind of speaks to the plans (or lack thereof) they have for Quentin Grimes. If he's not going to play this position at all, he's not going to play very much. I know some have said he's more of a 2 for them, but that puts him not only behind Luka and Kyrie, but also competing with Hardy and Exum for a role. 

I don't really like how this seems to be shaping up, but we'll see!

Not counting injuries, there are some 45 minutes available behind Luka, Kyrie and Klay on positions 1-3. Enough for two players, but that would make Exum and Hardy deep bench guys and open in case of emergency (injuries, rest) options.

[KillerLeft]

Not counting injuries, there are some 45 minutes available behind Luka, Kyrie and Klay on positions 1-3. Enough for two players, but that would make Exum and Hardy deep bench guys and open in case of emergency (injuries, rest) options.

I guess I am one of the only ones who feel this way, but I will be shocked if Hardy isn’t Given a good, long look at the third guard/6th man role this season. They have to figure out if they want to keep him, and he is on the last year of his deal.

To be honest, I also wouldn’t be surprised if he is traded this week for that, same reason, especially if they view Grimes as more of a guard.

[omahen]

Idk...they paid Green more than that. I get that they're trying to fix that mistake as we speak, but I can see the 3rd forward (can play both positions) having a big enough role to warrant the MLE. I hope he's closer to $10 million, of course, but I wouldn't be mad at the full exception.

Green is much younger with more potential to improve, thats why a bit bigger salary.

My point - Mavs might see DJJ as a 15 mpg guy moving forward, because they want a premium upgrade at his position. As long as they don't get that guy he is a valuable player. But when they do, they can live even without him.

And I don't want to get into discussion if Klay is that guy. I have my doubts about him, but looks like Mavs don't have.

[KillerLeft]

Green is much younger with more potential to improve, thats why a bit bigger salary.

My point - Mavs might see DJJ as a 15 mpg guy moving forward, because they want a premium upgrade at his position. As long as they don't get that guy he is a valuable player. But when they do, they can live even without him.

And I don't want to get into discussion if Klay is that guy. I have my doubts about him, but looks like Mavs don't have.

I get your point, but I don’t see Jones, even if he’s a back up, as only a one position back up. Until they add another four, he is monumentally superior to Kleber in that role against most teams, I think. So, following your logic above, I would have his minutes rounding 25, and on the way to 30.

[omahen]

I guess I am one of the only ones who feel this way, but I will be shocked if Hardy isn’t Given a good, long look at the third guard/6th man role this season. They have to figure out if they want to keep him, and he is on the last year of his deal.

To be honest, I also wouldn’t be surprised if he is traded this week for that, same reason, especially if they view Grimes as more of a guard.

Perfectly agree about Hardy. I think they either have to give him minutes this season or trade him. But we don't really know if he has any value. So perhaps for them is equal value to have him as "open in case of emergency" cheap back-up, who they will let walk after the season, if his value will be over vet min.

[omahen]

I get your point, but I don’t see Jones, even if he’s a back up, as only a one position back up. Until they add another four, he is monumentally superior to Kleber in that role against most teams, I think. So, following your logic above, I would have his minutes rounding 25, and on the way to 30.

Agree that minutes behind PJ are a bit of an unknown. Are they going to Maxi or Mavs playing smaller ball with Luka as nominal PF. That would free up a lot of minutes at positions 1-3.

[F Gump]

1 Most important info: if Thompson comes, he will be a starter

2 I doubt GSW would entertain any salary back in a SnT. They want to get significantly better for Curry, they don't want some 8th best players on MLE level money (they have plenty of guys like that on rookie deals), much less so the likes of D'Angelo Russell. These guys would be preventing them from any potential big swings using CP3 deal. 

3 I don't think Lakers would be really interested in a SnT, where they would have to pay assets to someone to take Russell. I think Lakers are trying to get two deals. One is using their contracts (preferably DLo) and assets for a very good player and the other one is MLE. I don't think they will offer Thompson more than MLE.

1  Maybe you're right. But I think they would discuss him having a permanent (but crucial) role as 6th man - like JET had. And with the Mavs, he doesn't have a prior version of himself here, to be reminded of and compared to, when he starts off in a certain role; it's a brand new start.

2 " I doubt GSW would entertain any salary back in a SnT. "... It depends on what they decide with CP3 (whose presence keeps them from having a big MLE and lands them over Apron 1). I suspect CP3 is waived, with teams who want him willing to wait and then try to sign him.

If that's correct, then their approach does a 180. They then have freedom to add some talent - such as add a full MLE, and accept Green in sign-and-trade - and still be under the Apron. And I bet they see a need for talent, if they can get it, rather than just do without. That's assumes they would see Green as worth having and developing further, which I think they would.

Also notice that reports re GS say they WILL take back salary to facilitate a SNT.

3 I think LA would offer some salary to GS in a SNT, and I agree that Russell would have to go elsewhere and that LA would see that as a poor path. I think if LA offers Klay just the MLE, no one will be happy (LJ would also be taking a 16M haircut in 2024-25 salary for LA to be able to offer that).

[LukaMVP]

although we may use DJJ or luka or something else at 4 temporarily, we still need better depth there (not speaking of the NY type though, who seem to have stockpiled half of the world's best wings). it's time for omax to get in the rotation and fill that role, hopefully.

[KillerLeft]

Agree that minutes behind PJ are a bit of an unknown. Are they going to Maxi or Mavs playing smaller ball with Luka as nominal PF. That would free up a lot of minutes at positions 1-3.

You’re speaking defensively, but in a way that’s the same thing I’m saying, only from a different angle.

Still, if they aren’t sending Green and or Kleber out in this Thompson deal, and it doesn’t seem like you think they will, I suppose there could potentially be some other moves made we haven’t discussed yet, and I assume another 4 would be pretty high on that list.

[F Gump]

..... then DJJ is scooped up by Lebron and LA. Not sure though what his role in LA would be as they already have Lebron, Rui, Vando, Taurean Price, Cam Reddish at the 3/4. So if he wants to have a significant role, Mavs is his best bet.

I think the last part of the above is correct, and is the important part. DJJ is going to want to be in a place where he has a "significant role." It's hard to see that sort of role in LA for him, with their other players, than he would have in Dallas and that the Mavs would offer. LA has multiple players who would be ahead of him, and what they need is shooters to space the floor, which is NOT his game.

I just don't see any fit at all in LA for him.