Trade & FA 2024-25:

[KillerLeft]

I don't think he's the end all be all answer for our needs this summer. But as a replacement for Green (who is a better offensive player for sure) he more than makes up for whatever scoring in defense.

Thanks for offering your thoughts. I'm coming around on this a little. I guess it just feels wrong that the first semi-realistic move we're discussing does zero to address what actually went wrong for the team in the end. To your point, this doesn't have to be the only thing they do, but it's just weird to talk about this in context of not knowing what they'll do to address the offense, because it makes me wonder if we (or even they, scarily enough) actually understand why the season ended without jewelry.

[KillerLeft]

To be clear, I don't have any feel if Lawson offers added value. But in the scenario I outlined, the Mavs would have to waive him anyhow if they kept him, because of lack of roster space, so maybe POR would see some benefit instead.

There are 13 slots filled in my hypothetical, with one remaining to be identified who gets added to fill the need for a scorer. If there's someone who fits that price range of what's left. they would have after signing DJJ.

Would you be in favor of the Dan deal, which included the 2025 first, with some level of protection?

[Chicagojk]

I'm all for getting Thybulle and giving the guy a chance, but not at the expense of a first. Worst case is we have a lock down defender for crucial possessions or particular players. Maybe he can knock down enough 3s to justify decent minutes. Maybe he can get out and run to get some easy points.

I am sure there is interest.  I just don’t think Hardaway and change gets it done, I don’t think.  I think Dan’s done some good work with some Thubulle and non thybulle ideas.  I just don’t know how we find a path for both Thybulle and another scoring wing.

Edit, what about a maxi, Hardaway, green, Nokia a first and other draft assets for Grant and Thybulle. Is that possible?

Two things: it feels a little light for Portland to make that type of trade now. Second, it gets a little tricky if we want to resign DJJ and he sees his starting spot has disappeared.

[F Gump]

Problem is that come playoff time things in Philly fall apart and everyone not named Embiid ends up in the scapegoat conversation (this year it is Tobias Harris turn). Thybulle played a minor role in all of this but in the end Philly traded him instead of extending/resigning him at the end of his rookie contract.

That misses a major part of the story in Philly, and perhaps the biggest one.

Yes, Philly didn't want to re-sign him, and tried to get value by trade instead. But the reason wasn't scapegoating. Instead it was because they needed floor spacers around Embiid, and MT was awful at that. Didn't shoot, and didn't make them when he did. They eventually took him out of the rotation and moved him.

That's still a significant risk if you get him -- he's still very weak on the offensive end (though he has improved slightly in POR, but not by much). He's a good defender, although a bit different in the way he defends, which is the appeal.

I agree with the idea that POR might be glad to see him go, as he's making 11M, but mostly a backup who scores about 5 ppg, weak rebounder, rarely gets to the rim or dunks, and only plays about 23 mins.

[F Gump]

For what it's worth, here's a year old video I found of a pretty smart Portland guy analyzing what he liked/didn't like after Thybulle's initial stretch there. This is going into last summer, before the Dallas offer. 

EDIT: new link is cued up to the most relevant part of the video:

https://youtu.be/ZxZ2egeKPLA?si=yChGwEKOkDarklOQ&t=229

 It's interesting that this POR fan thought MT value heading into free agency last summer was about 6.3M. Offensive comments were not complimentary - brutal, really. Looks like the Mavs offered him 11M to try to make him too expensive for POR to match, and stuck with quite an overpay if they did.

Is it that after another year, with no real progress in his game, POR will be eager for someone to take him, but with the change in the roster, the Mavs won't be interested at all?

[loki]

DJJ only played 16, 17, and 22 minutes in the last 3 games against the Celtics because they were so desperate for offense. I still want him back, but prioritizing another defense-only player at the same position doesn't seem like a wise use of limited space under the apron. I think Thybulle is only a target if DJJ walks.

[BigDirk41]

Maybe it's for Grant and Thybulle like someone else above mentioned. That's a different story.

[loki]

Maybe it's for Grant and Thybulle like someone else above mentioned. That's a different story.

If Grant is the target I would still prioritize re-signing DJJ.

[SleepingHero]

Maybe it's for Grant and Thybulle like someone else above mentioned. That's a different story.

Essentially prices you out $$$ wise. 


As often as I try to come up with splashy deals for splashy names, getting to $40 mil is really really hard without breaking up the main cogs of the team. It'd have to be Maxi+THJ+Green for that. 

And I'm not sure why Portland is interested in Maxi's contract. They took on Rob Williams though. This also effectively limits you from re-signing DJJ. 

I just think Grant is too expensive contract wise.

[KillerLeft]

I just think Grant is too expensive contract wise.

Sadly, this is probably the case. 

I'm going to hold out some hope for the next week or so, however.

[Jmaciscool]

Essentially prices you out $$$ wise. 


As often as I try to come up with splashy deals for splashy names, getting to $40 mil is really really hard without breaking up the main cogs of the team. It'd have to be Maxi+THJ+Green for that. 

And I'm not sure why Portland is interested in Maxi's contract. They took on Rob Williams though. This also effectively limits you from re-signing DJJ. 

I just think Grant is too expensive contract wise.

Could THJ and Green work contact wise? ESPN trade machine says it's legal, but not sure how accurate it is.

[SleepingHero]

Could THJ and Green work contact wise? ESPN trade machine says it's legal, but not sure how accurate it is.

This trade is not legal under the new rules. Need to cut 4.5 mil from Dallas' side. Powell+Lawson works. Again not sure why Portland accepts that.

Also have to ask yourself is Jerami Grant worth adding in 3 extra guys.

[mvossman]

That misses a major part of the story in Philly, and perhaps the biggest one.

Yes, Philly didn't want to re-sign him, and tried to get value by trade instead. But the reason wasn't scapegoating. Instead it was because they needed floor spacers around Embiid, and MT was awful at that. Didn't shoot, and didn't make them when he did. They eventually took him out of the rotation and moved him.

That's still a significant risk if you get him -- he's still very weak on the offensive end (though he has improved slightly in POR, but not by much). He's a good defender, although a bit different in the way he defends, which is the appeal.

I agree with the idea that POR might be glad to see him go, as he's making 11M, but mostly a backup who scores about 5 ppg, weak rebounder, rarely gets to the rim or dunks, and only plays about 23 mins.

I think you might be underselling his improvement in shooting from Philly to Portland a little bit.  In the two years at Philly when he was 2nd team all defense he was shooting 31% from 3 while taking less than 4 shots per 36 (and not doing much else offensively).  Since moving to Portland, he is shooting over 35% on over 5 shots per 36.  That is going from completely unplayable offensively to a little better than DJJ 3 point shooting.

[KillerLeft]

This trade is not legal under the new rules. Need to cut 4.5 mil from Dallas' side. Powell+Lawson works. Again not sure why Portland accepts that.

Also have to ask yourself is Jerami Grant worth adding in 3 extra guys.

Hey man, I don't think it's likely, either, but IF you can add Powell/Lawson and make that trade legal, I"m in. 

Agree with the "why would Portland do this" angle.

[F Gump]

Essentially prices you out $$$ wise.

As often as I try to come up with splashy deals for splashy names, getting to $40 mil is really really hard without breaking up the main cogs of the team. It'd have to be Maxi+THJ+Green for that. .

You also lose DJJ in that scenario (unless you think he'll sign for 5.2M).

[Branduil]

Doubt DAL likes it either, since THJ-Green-Powell for Grant ends up with DAL having TxMLE (5.2M) and minimums, which likely means DJJ is out the door.

I mean I'd like to keep DJJ, but if we traded for Grant it makes DJJ a bench player anyway, and it's probably more economical to use the TMLE on a bench player anyway.

[SleepingHero]

Doubt DAL likes it either, since THJ-Green-Powell for Grant ends up with DAL having TxMLE (5.2M) and minimums, which likely means DJJ is out the door.

Well in this fantasy they're also getting Thybulle. That could soften the blow of losing DJJ. 

I've always imagined a platoon scenario with our athletic defensive wings much like how we run our center rotation if we had DJJ+Thybulle. We wouldn't have to worry about foul trouble and both guys play their allotted 25mpg to the fullest. So this isn't my preferred scenario at all. 

The real issue is can the Mavs get a proper bench guard rotation that is durable enough if we make such a deal (THJ+Green+Maxi for Grant+Thybulle)

Luka/Exum
Kyrie/Hardy
Grant/Thybulle
PJ/Omax
Gafford/Lively/Powell

This rotation is missing just 1 more vet PG imo. If CP3 wanted to ring chase I wouldn't be against it.

[chaparral]

DJJ only played 16, 17, and 22 minutes in the last 3 games against the Celtics because they were so desperate for offense. I still want him back, but prioritizing another defense-only player at the same position doesn't seem like a wise use of limited space under the apron. I think Thybulle is only a target if DJJ walks.

I think this is correct.  

The video that KL posted about what the Mavs needed to do to return to the finals by Jason Timpf, (5-Out, Move Ball Movement and Above the Break 3's).  That was a good video, Thanks KL...  who fits this scenario?

[chaparral]

Well in this fantasy they're also getting Thybulle. That could soften the blow of losing DJJ. 

I've always imagined a platoon scenario with our athletic defensive wings much like how we run our center rotation if we had DJJ+Thybulle. We wouldn't have to worry about foul trouble and both guys play their allotted 25mpg to the fullest. So this isn't my preferred scenario at all. 

The real issue is can the Mavs get a proper bench guard rotation that is durable enough if we make such a deal (THJ+Green+Maxi for Grant+Thybulle)

Luka/Exum
Kyrie/Hardy
Grant/Thybulle
PJ/Omax
Gafford/Lively/Powell

This rotation is missing just 1 more vet PG imo. If CP3 wanted to ring chase I wouldn't be against it.

Would Luka get to be in a State Farm commercial with Jake?

[Branduil]

I think this is correct.  

The video that KL posted about what the Mavs needed to do to return to the finals by Jason Timpf, (5-Out, Move Ball Movement and Above the Break 3's).  That was a good video, Thanks KL...  who fits this scenario?

As I mentioned a few paged back, both Jerami Grant and Deandre Hunter shoot well on ATB 3s (37%+).