Trade & FA 2024-25:

[KillerLeft]

He just scored 17 points a game on decent efficiency starting on a playoff team, and he is only 31.  Hard to see him getting anything less than the MLE.

I'm just telling you about their conversation. The Philly dude (can't think of his name) HATES Harris. Viscerally.

[F Gump]

@MavsFilmRoom
Chris Haynes, live on The Bleacher Report App names the Mavs as one of the teams expected to have some level of interest in Tobias Harris this summer.

Would have to be a sign-and-trade.

It feels like the tried-and-true "just go ahead and mention Mavs in every trade idea" is in the landscape this summer.

[JamesConway912]

Yeah Harris is still a decent starting forward in this league. Not quite as athletic as he was a few years ago but he’s still close to his prime. Would be a HUGE addition to this team at a position of need. Not fully on Jerami Grant’s level but really not that far off and probably much easier to acquire.

IIRC we were also interested in him before he signed his big 5yr deal the last time he was a FA.

Irving
Doncic
Harris
Washington
Lively | Gafford

That’s a heck of a top six. Not sure what it takes to get a SnT done for Harris but it’s probably not outlandish.

[KillerLeft]

Yeah Harris is still a decent starting forward in this league. Not quite as athletic as he was a few years ago but he’s still close to his prime. Would be a HUGE addition to this team at a position of need. Not fully on Jerami Grant’s level but really not that far off and probably much easier to acquire.

IIRC we were also interested in him before he signed his big 5yr deal the last time he was a FA.

Irving
Doncic
Harris
Washington
Lively | Gafford

That’s a heck of a top six. Not sure what it takes to get a SnT done for Harris but it’s probably not outlandish.

I'm not totally out on the Harris idea, but I highly doubt he'd start in the circumstances you've outlined above. No offense to you or anyone else, but I keep seeing these ideas that play two 4's next to each other, and I just feel like that's willfully missing what just worked for Dallas. They need DJJ or a DJJ replacement. They already have a PJ Washington. They could use another 4 to come off the bench like Harris, Collins, whoever, but not at the sacrifice of the quicker wing, and probably only if they don't move Green (because they need two of that type, really). 

These are all great ideas for replacing Kleber, if the team really is into moving on from him. I don't think they're as ideally suited as Kleber (when healthy) because they can't play the 5 as well, but Harris and Collins CAN defend and shoot a little. Collins can even create some for himself in the post, if that's a dimension they want to add. 

But without the Jones element on the defensive end this is all pointless. That's why it's Jones or Grant for me, so far.

[F Gump]

Truthfully Philly is tired of Harris mostly because he isn't good enough to be a 2nd-3rd option. 

.................

He's a luxury. A great 4th option that can have big scoring nights but I'm not surprised Philly fans are sick and tired of the guy they were paying 40mil to average 15ppg.

In Dallas, he really just has to be able to hit a spot up 3 and occasionally get his own shot. Far cry from what he was asked to do in Philly.

 That bloated contract made him a "bad" player to have on your roster. But if the price gets to the MLE range, I think he'd be good value. If THJ is outbound for air, to create space for DJJ, then Harris would have to fit in a swap for someone like Green or Kleber. Would that work with Philly?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Truthfully Philly is tired of Harris mostly because he isn't good enough to be a 2nd-3rd option. 

He's a luxury. A great 4th option that can have big scoring nights but I'm not surprised Philly fans are sick and tired of the guy they were paying 40mil to average 15ppg.

In Dallas, he really just has to be able to hit a spot up 3 and occasionally get his own shot. Far cry from what he was asked to do in Philly. 

I remember when they had Butler and Harris was a 4th option he was pretty much universally loved in PHI, so much so that they chose handing him a 180 mil deal over extending Butler.

Harris at $45mm is a problem.  Harris at $15-$20mm would be good value.

Dad is his agent (like Kyrie’s mom).  Occasionally dad mouths off (like THJ’s dad)

Philly is a place where you could do a deal that allows you to do a S&T (which hard caps you) for Harris and keep DJJ.  You’d have to send out at least two players and then approximately split the outgoing salary somehow between DJJ and Harris.  So, for example in round numbers, maybe it is THJ/Green and Harris gets something around 3/$60mm and DJJ gets a little under the NTMLE.  Or, maybe it is Maxi and THJ?  You wouldn’t expect Philly to get much for a player they don’t want to keep.

The other side of the deal is the challenge.  It is hard to figure what Moray wants to do here.  They have lots of cap room and no one good to spend it on.  Is THJ for one year better than sinking big money into Hield on a multi-year deal?  Or, is THJ’s expiring getting shipped to a third team?  On a team with maybe 8-10 spots to fill, Green at $12mm probably makes sense.

If that is all it is and you keep DJJ, then for all intents and purposes you’ve traded Green for Tobias Harris at good money.  I’m a Green guy, but that is a better team.

[KillerLeft]

Truthfully Philly is tired of Harris mostly because he isn't good enough to be a 2nd-3rd option. 

He was asked to be the 2nd scorer when Ben Simmons was around and he couldn't do it. He was asked to pick up a lot of nights offensively when Harden couldn't get it done. That wasn't his game.

Now he was asked to be the 3rd scorer behind Maxey and Embiid, but Embiid was injured, and Harris once again couldn't be that guy.


He's a luxury. A great 4th option that can have big scoring nights but I'm not surprised Philly fans are sick and tired of the guy they were paying 40mil to average 15ppg.

In Dallas, he really just has to be able to hit a spot up 3 and occasionally get his own shot. Far cry from what he was asked to do in Philly. 

I remember when they had Butler and Harris was a 4th option he was pretty much universally loved in PHI, so much so that they chose handing him a 180 mil deal over extending Butler.

Just to clarify, because I haven't seen enough of Harris recently to weigh in with much confidence, but that's NOT the vibe I got from this conversation, or, for that matter, from numerous other discussions about Harris I've heard over the last couple of seasons. Those who follow Philly do think he was overpaid on the last deal, you're right, and that's obviously correct. But, the vibe I always get is that they believe he's flatly a bad player in a vacuum. Disappears, makes no impact on the game, etc, etc. I have no idea if I'd agree with them if I had been watching the 76ers consistently, but I also don't usually agree with the flak Hardaway gets around here. Listening to these guys talk about Harris is almost identical to listening/reading Hardaway opinions from Dallas followers. They really hate Harris that much. I'm just mentioning it because I think it's interesting. 

For the record, if the Mavs' interest is real, I might get it if it's about getting him at Kleber money or cheaper as option to find someone more available to replace HIM in his, specific off-the-bench role. I don't think the best of Harris is as impactful on defense as the 20-30 games of "truly healthy and playing well" Kleber the Mavs have been getting, but if they don't believe they'll ever get more games than that from him again, I can see it. 

As a starter next to Washington? Hell to the naw.

[KillerLeft]

If that is all it is and you keep DJJ, then for all intents and purposes you’ve traded Green for Tobias Harris at good money.  I’m a Green guy, but that is a better team.

Agree that Harris only makes sense as a target if you can also keep DJJ, but, and this is shocking, I think I might value Green more than you do, because I wouldn't do that. I don't think that's a better team at all. Leaves you with only one perimeter defender in DJJ. PJ can guard wings, and there are a ton of big ones now, as we all know, but feels unwise to leave yourself without a bench player who can run with guys like SGA, Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, etc. 

Not that I think Green is ideal in that role, exactly, but he's got the right athletic profile for it and he's only 23. I think the team you'd be left with in this scenario is far, far too slow.

[mvossman]

I'm not totally out on the Harris idea, but I highly doubt he'd start in the circumstances you've outlined above. No offense to you or anyone else, but I keep seeing these ideas that play two 4's next to each other, and I just feel like that's willfully missing what just worked for Dallas. They need DJJ or a DJJ replacement. They already have a PJ Washington. They could use another 4 to come off the bench like Harris, Collins, whoever, but not at the sacrifice of the quicker wing, and probably only if they don't move Green (because they need two of that type, really). 

These are all great ideas for replacing Kleber, if the team really is into moving on from him. I don't think they're as ideally suited as Kleber (when healthy) because they can't play the 5 as well, but Harris and Collins CAN defend and shoot a little. Collins can even create some for himself in the post, if that's a dimension they want to add. 

But without the Jones element on the defensive end this is all pointless. That's why it's Jones or Grant for me, so far.

Totally agree with this.  Caruso was on that list for me, but he is gone.  I would put Grimes on that list as well.  I'm on the fence regarding whether Grant really fits.  Same with Deni.  If we are going big game hunting I think I would rather go after Deni than Grant, but I'm not sure either are in our price range.

[KillerLeft]

Totally agree with this.  Caruso was on that list for me, but he is gone.  I would put Grimes on that list as well.  I'm on the fence regarding whether Grant really fits.  Same with Deni.  If we are going big game hunting I think I would rather go after Deni than Grant, but I'm not sure either are in our price range.

I get the fence riding with Grant. I'm confident the skillset is still there, but he'd have to want the role. He's two big contracts in from the left turn he took after the Denver year (when he was in the exact role we're envisioning and played it to perfection) and I doubt he's going to get a third huge deal. He succeeded in getting himself a SHOT at being a featured player, and in fact, he got TWO shots at it. But, the Portland record is a neon sign proclaiming that there won't be a third. He has to know that. 

Does he want to continue to get X amount of shots up every night, or is he ready, bank account now stuffed with generational wealth, to resume his perfect role for the back third of his career? If it's the latter, I believe he's literally the PERFECT player for Dallas. 

I like Grimes, too, but I see him as more of a potential Josh Green upgrade (for now) than someone to come in and replace DJJ. I think Grant, if he's into it, could start at the 3, play lots of 4, do most of the things DJJ did for this team just as well and SIGNIFICANTLY improve the team, offensively. Like, a lot.

I haven't really studied Advija's game, but he has never really impressed me. He always seems like his strong suit is playmaking, and that's a nice thing to have, but what the Mavs need is SHOOTING. I think both his shooting and his defense are being overrated here, but I admit I haven't watched him enough to be sure about that. At least he's a 3, so that makes him a better fit than some of these other names.

[mvossman]

Harris at $45mm is a problem.  Harris at $15-$20mm would be good value.

Dad is his agent (like Kyrie’s mom).  Occasionally dad mouths off (like THJ’s dad)

Philly is a place where you could do a deal that allows you to do a S&T (which hard caps you) for Harris and keep DJJ.  You’d have to send out at least two players and then approximately split the outgoing salary somehow between DJJ and Harris.  So, for example in round numbers, maybe it is THJ/Green and Harris gets something around 3/$60mm and DJJ gets a little under the NTMLE.  Or, maybe it is Maxi and THJ?  You wouldn’t expect Philly to get much for a player they don’t want to keep.

The other side of the deal is the challenge.  It is hard to figure what Moray wants to do here.  They have lots of cap room and no one good to spend it on.  Is THJ for one year better than sinking big money into Hield on a multi-year deal?  Or, is THJ’s expiring getting shipped to a third team?  On a team with maybe 8-10 spots to fill, Green at $12mm probably makes sense.

If that is all it is and you keep DJJ, then for all intents and purposes you’ve traded Green for Tobias Harris at good money.  I’m a Green guy, but that is a better team.

So you have Harris coming off the bench?  I could get on board with that, but I'm not sure he would.  If you are sending out Timmy + Maxi I would probably be willing to include a little draft capital.  I would miss 5 out with Maxi, but you could replace it with PJ/Harris (better offensively and worse defensively).  Harris has also been very healthy in his career.

[mvossman]

I get the fence riding with Grant. I'm confident the skillset is still there, but he'd have to want the role. He's two big contracts in from the left turn he took after the Denver year (when he was in the exact role we're envisioning and played it to perfection) and I doubt he's going to get a third huge deal. He succeeded in getting himself a SHOT at being a featured player, and in fact, he got TWO shots at it. But, the Portland record is a neon sign proclaiming that there won't be a third. He has to know that. 

Does he want to continue to get X amount of shots up every night, or is he ready, bank account now stuffed with generational wealth, to resume his perfect role for the back third of his career? If it's the latter, I believe he's literally the PERFECT player for Dallas. 

I like Grimes, too, but I see him as more of a potential Josh Green upgrade (for now) than someone to come in and replace DJJ. I think Grant, if he's into it, could start at the 3, play lots of 4, do most of the things DJJ did for this team just as well and SIGNIFICANTLY improve the team, offensively. Like, a lot.

I haven't really studied Advija's game, but he has never really impressed me. He always seems like his strong suit is playmaking, and that's a nice thing to have, but what the Mavs need is SHOOTING. I think both his shooting and his defense are being overrated here, but I admit I haven't watched him enough to be sure about that. At least he's a 3, so that makes him a better fit than some of these other names.

I have generally thought of Grimes as a Green upgrade, but he could fill the DJJ role if necessary.  Not as athletic and probably not as good defensively, but a much better floor spacer.  

If we had strong reason to believe that Grant was ready to be third option and go all out on defense in order to compete, then he might be my top target as well, although its not idea that he is on the wrong side of 30.

[KillerLeft]

I have generally thought of Grimes as a Green upgrade, but he could fill the DJJ role if necessary.  Not as athletic and probably not as good defensively, but a much better floor spacer.  

If we had strong reason to believe that Grant was ready to be third option and go all out on defense in order to compete, then he might be my top target as well, although its not idea that he is on the wrong side of 30.

Call me naive, but with guys like Grant, the connective quality of NBA icon Kyrie Irving has me thinking totally differently than I might've a year ago. I think he was able to do for this team what Brunson was doing during the transition from Carlisle to Kidd, only on higher plane of adoration from the old(er) guard. I just have this feeling that Dallas is being looked at totally differently than they used to be, and that guys will probably understand that coming here means playing hard. 

Wishful thinking, a little, but not out of complete nowhere.

[Jmaciscool]

Call me naive, but with guys like Grant, the connective quality of NBA icon Kyrie Irving has me thinking totally differently than I might've a year ago. I think he was able to do for this team what Brunson was doing during the transition from Carlisle to Kidd, only on higher plane of adoration from the old(er) guard. I just have this feeling that Dallas is being looked at totally differently than they used to be, and that guys will probably understand that coming here means playing hard. 

Wishful thinking, a little, but not out of complete nowhere.

I agree - to me it feels like having a guy like Kyrie on the team legitimizes others playing with Luka/playing in Dallas, if that makes sense.  

This is the first off season in a while (ever?) where it feels like Dallas is a "legit" team with some swagger, and the finals run definitely contributes to that but I think Kyrie is just as big of a contributor.

[Chicagojk]

There were rumors a team like Detroit was going to offer a big contract for Tobias Harris. Detroit has cleaned house since then.

I do not see it happening to Dallas though. It would certainly need to be a three team trade. We don't have the pieces that Morey would look for in a trade. Maybe a three team trade. I think I read philly didn't have an interest in Lavine. If they did, Philly get Lavine, Chicago gets solid contracts and maybe an asset and Dallas gets Harris. I still don't think that is something Morey would do.

If you brought in Harris I think you need to move Powell and bring in Boban. Boban, Harris and Luka....the three amigos.

[KillerLeft]

I agree - to me it feels like having a guy like Kyrie on the team legitimizes others playing with Luka/playing in Dallas, if that makes sense.  

This is the first off season in a while (ever?) where it feels like Dallas is a "legit" team with some swagger, and the finals run definitely contributes to that but I think Kyrie is just as big of a contributor.

It makes total sense. 

I've talked about this a lot in the past, and it has mostly been ignored around here, but...while all of the NBA fraternity seems to respect Luka's game to an INSANE degree, they have always seen him as a young, European player, because that's what he is. It's not good or bad, but it's different than most of them. I used to suggest that guys would flock to play with Luka when he was 27-28, and clearly one of the faces of the league, and people would invariably say something like "he's that good right now, and nobody wants to come here" which completely misses the point. 

Even if you feel strongly that Luka at 23, 24, 25 is the very best talent in the league, he's still a young kid with very little in common with these guys outside of practice/games. This season sort of proved that the guys in Luka's age range are taking over the top level of the talent pool, that's true, but (and this thread confirms what I'm about to say) all the guys we're still excited about putting around him are still on the older side. They're not going to want to go play with some Slovenian kid, no matter how good they think he is. Outside of Lauri Markkanen, nobody notable has really listed Dallas as a preferred destination so far, to my knowledge. He's younger and European. 

So, my thinking (then) was that we'd have to wait until Luka was in his late 20's, clearly established, and the league was full of new players who had looked up to him for a long time before the line to play here in Dallas got as long as we were hoping it would be. I hope I've articulated that point well enough. 

Only now, with Kyrie gushing over both Luka and this franchise, and begrudgingly, I'll admit that Kidd is a help in this area, too, I think this place is suddenly being taken much more seriously. It's like...everyoone knows Luka is the straw that stirs this drink, but they'd be coming to play with Kyrie, who is giving them permission to admit Luka is better than them, lol.

There have been shots of Luka and Kyrie's fathers embracing after playoff games. There's a real signal being sent out by both of them that they're serious about this team earning a place at the table.

[Chicagojk]

THJ's dad commented this on Instagram. Timmy is gone this summer that's for sure.

I am not sure went behind the scenes, but publicly THJ handled this really well.  He was really struggling after the trade deadline.  I am sure hearing the Mavs were looking to dump you didn't help the confidence.  I am sure he wanted a different role in the playoffs but he appeared engaged on the bench during the playoff run.   When he got his chance, he was not very good but I never thought effort was an issue.

His Dad on the other hand.....even going back to his comments about Luka last year.   I am sure that created some unnecessary drama inside the team.   THJ even needed to make some public comments about his dads comments.

[F Gump]

If we are considering Harris, my upper limit on his contract would be BELOW 15.5M, because I'm not paying him more than I'm paying PJW who he would back up and who gets 15.5. So my upper limit for TH would probably go to around 14.5-15.0.

That would look like this -
1 THJ gets sent for air
2 Pay DJJ full 12.9M MLE
3 Sign and send away (SNT) either Green or Kleber to Philly for Harris, paying Harris in the 14.5-15.0M range

Is that enough for Harris? For Philly? Not sure that you'd need more than a one-for-one. Either JG or Maxi might be very useful to Philly, and they each have a reasonable contract.

[SleepingHero]

@esidery
The Suns are “open for business” in regards to the No. 22 overall pick, per
@Gambo987
(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/th...0659837777).

Phoenix will not only discuss trade-down scenarios, but also potentially move up if a prospect they covet starts to slide.

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

His Dad on the other hand.....even going back to his comments about Luka last year.   I am sure that created some unnecessary drama inside the team.   THJ even needed to make some public comments about his dads comments.

His dad has always been a doucher. First, his longterm homophobia.  But I remember when, after sucking for the Mavs for half a season, he grabbed a TV monitor from the sideline and spiked it on the game court when he was told he was traded (in the Juwan Howard deal).

Good riddance to the Hardaways.